How do I get devil's blood?

[Dalebert]

The 1st level spell, infernal healing, calls for a drop of devil's blood. How does a low level character get their hands on some (if at all)? I thought of summoning some sort of devil, but I believe the blood would disappear at the end of the duration.

[JeenLeen]

Pretty sure, if you know the spell, you are assumed to have an essentially infinite amount of it (assuming it cost less than 1 gp) in your spell component pouch.

Not the most realistic factor, I admit.

For summoned creatures, I reckon the blood would vanish. Bodies vanish when 'killed'.

[Slipperychicken]

It's like asking "how do I get tiny tarts?? I need to cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter!"


Pretty sure, if you know the spell, you are assumed to have an essentially infinite amount of it (assuming it cost less than 1 gp) in your spell component pouch.


It's just like any spell component without a listed price. You are presumed to have bought a sufficient quantity of it in town.

[beforemath]

I'd assumed it was in the 5gp "spell component pouch."

I suppose there's nothing that says that one pouch contains infinite supplies, though, so your DM could require you to purchase one pouch per day of spells.

[Ravens_cry]

I suppose there's nothing that says that one pouch contains infinite supplies, though, so your DM could require you to purchase one pouch per day of spells.
No.
It says
A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn't fit in a pouch.

It says nothing about only having enough for a day or any other kind of limit.
You don't so much have infinite as much as indefinite amounts of, again, "all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting."
Basically, it's a hand waving way so you don't have to keep track of exactly how much bat guano you have.

[Brookshw]

It's like asking "how do I get tiny tarts?? I need to cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter!"
.

Huh, now that's something I never noticed. Wizards are mobile bakeries with infinite tart dispensing capabilities. Guess that solves every food finding problem.

[Dalebert]

My DM seems to have decreed that this is a difficult-to-obtain item that is not purchasable in the usual way. It seems odd to me for a first level spell.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Huh, now that's something I never noticed. Wizards are mobile bakeries with infinite tart dispensing capabilities. Guess that solves every food finding problem.

That's kind of thinking is probably a good way to get your DM to make you keep track of how much bat guano you have. :smalltongue:
Instead of "infinite" it's probably better to say "enough to cast the spell as often as you will cast it. Exactly enough.".

[Eldonauran]

Components V, S, M (1 drop of devil blood or 1 dose of unholy water)
Hmmm.... I'm not sure how much 1 dose of (un)holy water is but a pint costs at least 25gp (if you use the spell bless water). Good temples sell at cost. Unholy water is likely to cost you more.

I have a sorcerer that makes use of the spell and I worked with my DM at the time to by a vial for 10gp. Probably had several hundred uses of devil's blood (a single drop each). After that, we really did not keep track.

[Fax Celestis]

Huh, now that's something I never noticed. Wizards are mobile bakeries with infinite tart dispensing capabilities. Guess that solves every food finding problem.

The spell component pouch specifically states it has to be able to fit in the pouch. Can you fit an infinite number of tiny tarts into that pouch? No. Not even if it's an extra dimensional storage space spell component pouch: all of those still have finite dimensions.

[ArqArturo]

Does it cost money? If not, it's either in the spell component pouch, or you could forgo all non-cost components and get Eschew Material Components


It's like asking "how do I get tiny tarts?? I need to cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter!"

I once, as a wizard, subsisted a day in tiny tarts when our food ran out.

[Slipperychicken]

Huh, now that's something I never noticed. Wizards are mobile bakeries with infinite tart dispensing capabilities. Guess that solves every food finding problem.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to eat some two month old pastry which a) wasn't designed to be eaten in the first place, and b) has been sitting in the same bag as a Wizard's supply of bat guano and live spiders for gods know how long.


And yeah, it's not infinite. It's just enough to last you until you get back to town again. I think 3.5 had a suggestion that a PC spellcaster pay like 5 gold every time they make a stop in town, and then you can assume they have enough. Because seriously, tracking encumbrance is enough of a hassle already, I'm not going to track my stocks of feathers and tarts.

[ArqArturo]

Huh, now that's something I never noticed. Wizards are mobile bakeries with infinite tart dispensing capabilities. Guess that solves every food finding problem.

I'm sure the tarts must look like this:


http://www.cornishpastyassociation.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/pasties_insert.jpg

Rather than this:

http://www.dadcando.com/Cooking/Images/jam-tarts425x310.jpg

In order to survive X amount of time.

[Kish]

The obvious answer to the question in the thread title would be, "From a devil. Check the Nine Hells."

If you find that impractical, I can only suggest you ask your DM, mentioning that you doubt a first-level spell is meant to be something you need to be level 10+ to get the components for, and hope your DM is swayed to make devil's blood or unholy water* accessible, rather than to house-rule Infernal Healing up in level.

*I also think you might do better, if you think such an appeal would not go well for you, to go with the unholy water rather than the devil's blood.

[Slipperychicken]

If you find that impractical, I can only suggest you ask your DM, mentioning that you doubt a first-level spell is meant to be something you need to be level 10+ to get the components for, and hope your DM is swayed to make devil's blood or unholy water* accessible, rather than to house-rule Infernal Healing up in level.

Or you could make the logical assumption that some spellcaster is sitting in his house (or other facility), binding low-level devils (probably Lemures (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/devil/lemure) because they aren't going to cause much damage if they escape) to get their blood, then selling the blood to merchants who then distribute them to retail outlets (i.e. Ye Olde Spelle Component Shoppe) across the setting, from whom the PC buys it.

You know, supply chains. The same reason that a medieval noble could buy spices which only grew on the other side of the planet, rather than running over there and farming it himself.

[Red Fel]

Or you could try the other practical solution, which is that devils, like demons, celestials, dragons, elves, orcs, and basically every other race (including undead, ew) have sired generations among the human populace. Go into town, find the commoner with tiny horn-nubs, and offer him 5 gp (which is probably more money than he's ever seen in one place) to be a blood donor.

Problem solved.

[Selrahc]

The spell component pouch specifically states it has to be able to fit in the pouch. Can you fit an infinite number of tiny tarts into that pouch? No. Not even if it's an extra dimensional storage space spell component pouch: all of those still have finite dimensions.

I think you're underestimating just how tiny these tarts are.

[AMFV]

Also it's not like Devils don't have extra blood, and there's good odds that they'd be willing to give some of that up if it helps corrupt mortals, something that using a fast healing spell that works better on evil creatures definitely would do. They probably let their blood get all over, just for the corruptive effect of convincing people to cast that spell.

[Red Fel]

I think you're underestimating just how tiny these tarts are.

Tarts with dimensions approaching the Planck length? Brilliant!

[ArqArturo]

Or you could try the other practical solution, which is that devils, like demons, celestials, dragons, elves, orcs, and basically every other race (including undead, ew) have sired generations among the human populace. Go into town, find the commoner with tiny horn-nubs, and offer him 5 gp (which is probably more money than he's ever seen in one place) to be a blood donor.

Problem solved.

But, since that blood is diluted, you're gonna need more, and then make an extract of it.

Crap, I just turned into Grenouille from Perfume, right?


Tarts with dimensions approaching the Planck length? Brilliant!

Like I said, Cornish Pasties.

[Particle_Man]

Cut a deal with a Tiefling? Be a tiefling?

[Slipperychicken]

I still maintain my lemure-binding hypothesis: Someone binds pathetic, low-level devils, then bleeds them dry and sells the blood to magic shops and merchants.


They probably let their blood get all over, just for the corruptive effect of convincing people to cast that spell.

The spell does have the [Evil] tag. I'm not sure whether that makes casting it an evil act in Pathfinder.

On the other hand, it is like twice as efficient as Cure Light Wounds (Infernal healing gives 10 points, CLW gives 5.5 on average), so I could totally see devils making the spell to tempt mortals.

[AMFV]

The spell does have the [Evil] tag. I'm not sure whether that makes casting it an evil act in Pathfinder.

On the other hand, it is like twice as efficient as Cure Light Wounds (Infernal healing gives 10 points, CLW gives 4.5 on average), so I could totally see devils making the spell to tempt mortals.

It's at least a step in the right direction. Devils are all about the long game, and even if it's not a really evil thing, little evil things are usually better, since people do them more often. And of course it's better than CLW, it wouldn't be tempting otherwise.

[Fax Celestis]

I think you're underestimating just how tiny these tarts are.

Obviously we must measure these tarts in moles.

[Ravens_cry]

It's at least a step in the right direction. Devils are all about the long game, and even if it's not a really evil thing, little evil things are usually better, since people do them more often. And of course it's better than CLW, it wouldn't be tempting otherwise.
Only if you (and your DM)have a lot of patience. Yes, from a pure gold or spell slot to healing standpoint, it's better, but in the time it takes you to heal 10 HP, you can heal at least 20 HP from a CLW wand (1d8 [minimum 1]+1 from CL x 10 rounds) and you average out at 45.
That extra time gives the DM plenty of justification for setting up ambushes, enacting or fortifying positions while you are sitting around twiddling your thumbs.

[AMFV]

Only if you (and your DM)have a lot of patience. Yes, from a pure gold or spell slot to healing standpoint, it's better, but in the time it takes you to heal 10 HP, you can heal at least 20 HP from a CLW wand (1d8 [minimum 1]+1 from CL x 10 rounds) and you average out at 45.
That extra time gives the DM plenty of justification for setting up ambushes, enacting or fortifying positions while you are sitting around twiddling your thumbs.

Well it can't be better in all respects, and besides which the Devils aren't going to just give you a way to win, they're going to make it seem like they're giving you an easy victory, when it may not be, the deal is going to seem better than it is. That's kind of the other Fiendish modus operandi. So we have the long game of slow corruption, and things that appear better than they actually are. That sounds pretty much like something a Fiend would want to encourage.

[beforemath]

Or you could make the logical assumption that some spellcaster is sitting in his house (or other facility), binding low-level devils (probably Lemures (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/devil/lemure) because they aren't going to cause much damage if they escape) to get their blood, then selling the blood to merchants who then distribute them to retail outlets (i.e. Ye Olde Spelle Component Shoppe) across the setting, from whom the PC buys it.

You know, supply chains. The same reason that a medieval noble could buy spices which only grew on the other side of the planet, rather than running over there and farming it himself.

Doesn't really seem worth it if a spellcaster is only going to spend 5gp on your product ever. Too bad Knowledge: Economics isn't a class skill, I guess.

[Alent]

The 1st level spell, infernal healing, calls for a drop of devil's blood. How does a low level character get their hands on some (if at all)? I thought of summoning some sort of devil, but I believe the blood would disappear at the end of the duration.

Improved Familiar (Imp)?

[Ravens_cry]

Well it can't be better in all respects, and besides which the Devils aren't going to just give you a way to win, they're going to make it seem like they're giving you an easy victory, when it may not be, the deal is going to seem better than it is. That's kind of the other Fiendish modus operandi. So we have the long game of slow corruption, and things that appear better than they actually are. That sounds pretty much like something a Fiend would want to encourage.
Well, yes, that's a good Watsonian 'in-universe' way of looking at it.
My point is that people often point out how good at it is, and I though one should also point out its downsides, playing, ironically, devil's advocate.:smallamused:

[Slipperychicken]

Doesn't really seem worth it if a spellcaster is only going to spend 5gp on your product ever. Too bad Knowledge: Economics isn't a class skill, I guess.

D&D 3.5 economics don't work anyway. Everything is priced based off the designers' perception of its value to adventurers. The game simply doesn't provide an economic system which functions for anyone beside adventurers.

If there was a god of economics in D&D, it would probably also be a god of insanity.

[AMFV]

Well, yes, that's a good Watsonian 'in-universe' way of looking at it.
My point is that people often point out how good at it is, and I though one should also point out its downsides, playing, ironically, devil's advocate.:smallamused:

They've gotten to you already...

[Khosan]

Doesn't really seem worth it if a spellcaster is only going to spend 5gp on your product ever. Too bad Knowledge: Economics isn't a class skill, I guess.

Eh, for the effort I don't think it's that bad. The hard part is acquiring a devil in the first place. Once you manage that, you can just bleed it (without killing it) on a semi-regular basis.

When not bleeding their devil, they could be out harvesting bat poop, making tiny snowballs or baking tiny tarts.

[Ravens_cry]

They've gotten to you already...
I am almost offended that wasn't obvious earlier.:smallwink:

[Brookshw]

Obviously we must measure these tarts in moles.
Could be but I've just been informed that the pouch holds exactly as many tarts as the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. Hmm....what do devils dance on and how many can at a given time :smalltongue:

[Honest Tiefling]

I have to wonder, do devils HAVE blood? I mean, they're made of their plane and are extra-planar embodiment of tyranny and hate. Through the image of one spraying people endlessly or putting a tap on itself to give evil spell casters reagents is amusing. As is the image of someone attempting to buy the smallest tarts possible.

[Slipperychicken]

I have to wonder, do devils HAVE blood? I mean, they're made of their plane and are extra-planar embodiment of tyranny and hate. Through the image of one spraying people endlessly or putting a tap on itself to give evil spell casters reagents is amusing. As is the image of someone attempting to buy the smallest tarts possible.

In 3.5, BoVD mentioned that fiends have hearts (those are also used as evil spell components). It would be pretty silly to have a heart, but no blood.

The "smallest tarts possible" is just efficiency. Why should you waste space, weight, and money for more than is needed to make the spell work? I mean, unless you're particularly rich and want to show off your wealth by using perfectly edible and delicious tarts.

[Rubik]

The "smallest tarts possible" is just efficiency. Why should you waste space, weight, and money for more than is needed to make the spell work? I mean, unless you're particularly rich and want to show off your wealth by using perfectly edible and delicious tarts.Why not just hire tarts from the nearest halfling brothel? They follow you around, carry your loot, and set up your campsites at night.

[nedz]

Could be but I've just been informed that the pouch holds exactly as many tarts as the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. Hmm....what do devils dance on and how many can at a given time :smalltongue:

You just need one, dancing on the other end of the same pin.

[Fax Celestis]

Why not just hire tarts from the nearest halfling brothel? They follow you around, carry your loot, and set up your campsites at night.

They don't fit in a spell component pouch, and they tend to scream when you use them as a component.

[Slipperychicken]

halfling brothel

So much fetish fuel.. I'm not sure if I'll ever look at halflings the same way again.

[Rubik]

So much fetish fuel.. I'm not sure if I'll ever look at halflings the same way again.My work here is done.

[Cirrylius]

My DM seems to have decreed that this is a difficult-to-obtain item that is not purchasable in the usual way.
Tell your DM the internet said he's an idiot, and either 1) go by the spell component RAW, or 2) make it a story hook and not just an irritation.

[nedz]

Tell your DM the internet said he's an idiot, and either 1) go by the spell component RAW, or 2) make it a story hook and not just an irritation.

No no, just make it a major side plot. Rope all of the party in and ignore all other leads. You must have your blood.

[ArqArturo]

No no, just make it a major side plot. Rope all of the party in and ignore all other leads. You must have your blood.

Blood for the blood spell?.

[Rubik]

My DM seems to have decreed that this is a difficult-to-obtain item that is not purchasable in the usual way. It seems odd to me for a first level spell.Just ignore the spell and use Lesser Vigor. 11 points of healing minimum, and it's not even [Evil].

[Honest Tiefling]

In 3.5, BoVD mentioned that fiends have hearts (those are also used as evil spell components). It would be pretty silly to have a heart, but no blood.

I thought that the Fiendish Codex said they were far more different from humans, essentially a shell with all of the forms that the devil could progress to within it.

[Ravens_cry]

Just ignore the spell and use Lesser Vigor. 11 points of healing minimum, and it's not even [Evil].
It doesn't exist in Pathfinder.

[Rubik]

It doesn't exist in Pathfinder.One of the many, many, many reasons not to play it, then.

[Sith_Happens]

Blood for the blood spell?.

Skulls for the Skull Talisman.

[TuggyNE]

If your DM wishes for a more sensible approach that allows minimal mechanical changes, vastly improves consistency, and easily allows for sane costs for certain exceptional spells, might I recommend houseruling in my arcane School Focus system? In particular, the DM should, before any spell is acquired, determine whether the component should be replaced by a focus (the usual case) or instead be left as a now-costly material component, with the prevailing market price to be determined, preferably before play.

I'd expect the "drop" of blood to be mostly flavor, and as such best replaced with the appropriate school focus, but perhaps not. The most important thing is to be clear up front whether it's free or not, and after that, to have sound reasons for such a decision.


You know, supply chains. The same reason that a medieval noble could buy spices which only grew on the other side of the planet, rather than running over there and farming it himself.

*insert kneejerk counter-ruling from DM ignorant of the true extent of the medieval spice trade* Well, one hopes not, but that's all too common. Just look at the D&D price of salt.

[Slipperychicken]

One of the many, many, many reasons not to play it, then.

Or you could just port it over. Or play 3.5 and cherrypick nice things from PF.

[MonochromeTiger]

..you could always just gut a tiefling descended from a devil, harvest their blood, and use that. I mean technically it's "a devil's blood" even if it is diluted with a bit of mortal. aside from that check the pfsrd, if there's no M next to the spell in the spell list it's considered that you have the component if you have a spell component pouch...which is good cause otherwise low money campaigns with spellcasters would go broke fast.

edit: for those wondering how a spell-component pouch can hold all of this stuff in mechanically unlimited numbers....magic *wavey hands*

[Rubik]

The "smallest tarts possible" is just efficiency. Why should you waste space, weight, and money for more than is needed to make the spell work? I mean, unless you're particularly rich and want to show off your wealth by using perfectly edible and delicious tarts.I'm beginning to think that THL doesn't actually do anything, and the "victims" are just laughing because you're trying to disable them with pastries.

[Brookshw]

I'm beginning to think that THL doesn't actually do anything, and the "vicitms" are just laughing because you're trying to disable them with pastries.

And feathers, don't forget the feathers.

[Ravens_cry]

I'm beginning to think that THL doesn't actually do anything, and the "vicitms" are just laughing because you're trying to disable them with pastries.
If it's stupid and it works, then it's not stupid, yes?
I have a theory it has to do with thematic resonance, the same reason why fireballs use bat guano and sulphur. Basically, it's easier to create an effect that expands on a real thing than one that must create it out of nothing. Bat guano is a source of nitrates, and nitrates and sulphur are two of the three ingredients of gunpowder, and both gunpowder and fireballs make big booms. It's also why golems tend to be in the general shape of living creatures. The theme of life makes it easier to imbue raw matter with a semblance thereof.
That's my 'watsonian' theory anyway.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

A drop is next to non existent, Devils could be paid exorbitant sums for a pint of their blood a pint of their underling's blood and a drop would cost a few coppers. The only issue would be in the margins and who would want to aquire and resell the stuff, but considering the potential for profits every lawful evil church should be doing so.

[Slipperychicken]

I'm beginning to think that THL doesn't actually do anything, and the "victims" are just laughing because you're trying to disable them with pastries.

SHHH! Don't tell the muggles!


But yeah, a lot of spells have components like that, and it's obviously intentional humor.

Glitterdust's component is.. powdered mica which is sparkly dust. You might as well be throwing the dust at your targets.

Grease's component is butter or pork rinds. It's like you're spreading the grease all over the floor.

Detect Thoughts' material focus is a copper piece. It's like you're asking "penny for your thoughts?"


You can get a good laugh by going through spell descriptions and looking for humorous material components. I honestly want to start roleplaying those material components (i.e. make PCs describe what the spellcasting looks like), just so that casters can stop taking themselves so seriously all the time :smalltongue:

EDIT: Edit all the things!