[PF] Say hello to my big friend

[ArqArturo]

I've toyed to the idea of creating a golem-building character. Problem is, golems are expensive, and shield guardians are even more expensive. However, I would still love to be a construct-creating maniac. Especially when I saw the cannon golem. However, In my way of seeing things, cannon golems should look like this:

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/tdomf/89641/warmachine_the_destroyer_by_garang76.jpg

So, that being said, here's my idea (35-point buy form the trovetoken character creator (http://www.trovetokens.com/pathfinder.html)) :

Gnome (Keeps the obsessive trait, but replaces defensive training and hatred to get Master Tinker) Wizard.

Initial stats:
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 10

Archetype: Not really sure any would work, since the vanilla wizard seems fine. However, the Golem Constructor is the obvious choice for Arcane Discovery, but transmutation sort of fits the bill, getting rid of Necromancy and Illusions (my least favorite schools of magic, as good as they are for AoO and control... I love evocation :smallsmile:).

Feats:

1 .- Spell Focus (Transmutation)
3 .- Craft Wondrous Items
5 .- Field Repair
5 (W).- Craft Magic Arms & Armor
7 .- Spell Penetration
9 .- Spell Specialization
10 (W).- Craft Construct
11 .- Greater Spell Specialization
13 .- Quicken Spell
15 .- Bouncing Spell
15 (W).- Forge Ring
17 .- Selective Spell
19 .- Empower Spell
20 (W).- Still Spell

Now, I know some of the feats/arcane discoveries are not the most optimized, mostly because I'm a bit of in a hurry right now, but I am going to change some of the things. So, is there a way to optimize golem-making in PF and doing it as from a lower caster level as possible? So far I've looked but no dice.

[Kudaku]

If a player were to come to me with this character concept I'd probably guide him towards the summoner and refluff the Eidolon as a construct - pick the right evolutions and you can definitely make something "Golem"-like.

Other than that, I can't really think of much 1st party support for making constructs other than the actual crafting feats.

[Psyren]

Port Effigy Master in from 3.5 and remove the XP costs.

[ArqArturo]

I never really thought much on Summoners on this regard, mostly because they want to be the very best, like no one ever was.

All in all, I'm looking at some of the evolution things, and it may work... Somewhat. The only downer is that Eidolons can't gain class levels... Can they?.


Port Effigy Master in from 3.5 and remove the XP costs.

I have fond memories of our party's effigy master, that could work :smallsmile:. He also made topiary guardians.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Other than Golem constructor and the UM rules for building and modifying constructs, there doesn't seem to be more specific for it.

Sounds like a really cool class idea, though.

[AMFV]

Most of this is 3.5 but it could still be useful:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=m2bps3knnle0kt995pedq4kk36&topic=177.0

Also this:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7274.0

Again most of those things are 3.5 but I could see them being reasonably ported into PF without much hassle.

[ArqArturo]

I had the list of constructs, but the other one is a good add. This might work :).

[Particle_Man]

Does PF require separate feats for each type of golem you want to craft? 3.5 only requires one feat for all golems (albeit with 2 prerequisite feats).

[ArqArturo]

No, but Golem creation is an Arcane Discovery you can add instead of a feat. Here's the description:

Arcane Discoveries

Wizards spend much of their lives seeking deeper truths, hunting knowledge as if it were life itself. The wizard's power is not necessarily the spells he wields; spells are merely the outward, most visible manifestation of that power. A wizard's true power is in his fierce intelligence, his dedication to his craft, and his ability to peel back the surface truths of reality to understand the fundamental underpinnings of existence. A wizard spends much of his time researching spells, and would rather find an undiscovered library than a room full of gold. A wizard need not be a reclusive bookworm, but he must have a burning curiosity for the unknown. Arcane discoveries are the results of this obsession with magic. A wizard can learn an arcane discovery in place of a regular feat or wizard bonus feat.

Golem Constructor: You have learned the art and craft of creating a single type of golem (such as stone golems or iron golems). When creating a golem of this type, you count as having the Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Craft Construct feats. You must meet all other construction requirements for the golem as normal. You may select this discovery multiple times. Each time you select this discovery, it applies to a different kind of golem. You must be at least a 9th-level wizard to select this discovery.

Which, in retrospect, would make better sense in investing the feats instead of golem constructor, since it only chooses one kind, and with the feats, I can make all, and save up on feats.

[schoklat]

You are indeed better of by taking the pre-req feasts (aside from the fact that they are insanely useful on their own).

Next there are two (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/spark-of-creation-magic) traits (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/hedge-magician) to your cost in check a bit. Plus Field Repair (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/field-repair) if it ever gets broken. Arcane Builder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/arcane-discoveries/arcane-builder) helps in low downtime campaigns.
Conjuration spells / conjurer school are also good for crafty stuff.

At last remember that fighty golems might be flashy, but like the Batman-Wizard using them for utility is often much cheaper (esp at low levels). Craft a tiny recon golem, that also can double up as watch for the night. Improve your personal / groups mobility with an easy access, sturdy, fearless flying/diving/burrowing/... "mount". Etc etc.
For combat just memorise the odd BFC/buff spells and have the actual beatsticks have their fun, too. :smallwink:

[Drachasor]

Craft Arms and Armor also lets you do more modifications on Constructs. So it is definitely best to take that, Craft Wondrous and Craft Construct.

Might I suggest Animated Objects? They are cheap and can be very effective. An Adamantine one will have Hardness 20 which reduces ALL damage by 20 (including energy damage). One of the pricing systems for them is (CP+HD)*1000gp (half that for cost), which is pretty cheap and provides an easy guideline for making one with extra hit dice. The other system is 500*CR^2 for the price (half that for cost), which is better for tiny and small animated objects.

Also, PF rules let you give a proficiency with any weapon to a construct. You just pay the weapon cost to add or build it into it. It's a pretty cheap way to add a cannon, bow, or whatever.

I have toyed with the idea of having a Huge or Gargantuan Animated Tank with the Clockwork Template. Inside you could have Clockwork Servants, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/clockwork/clockwork-servant) who can repair damage. Essentially it would have the equivalent of Fast Healing. 4 of them, for instance, would heal 4d10 damage per round.

The only unfortunate thing is that the Clockwork Template comes with a +50% price increase and makes the Golem vulnerable to Electricity. About the only good benefit is getting healed by Clockwork Servants (Lightning Reflexes and Improved Initiative are not bad, but not worth the vulnerability and price increase).

There's nothing that disallows such a creature from granting you improved Cover if you are inside it either.

The Wax Golem has some nice bits though. It can become intelligent and get feats, though if it takes too much fire damage it will lose its memory.

[ArqArturo]

You are indeed better of by taking the pre-req feasts (aside from the fact that they are insanely useful on their own).

Next there are two (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/spark-of-creation-magic) traits (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/hedge-magician) to your cost in check a bit. Plus Field Repair (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/field-repair) if it ever gets broken. Arcane Builder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/arcane-discoveries/arcane-builder) helps in low downtime campaigns.
Conjuration spells / conjurer school are also good for crafty stuff.

At last remember that fighty golems might be flashy, but like the Batman-Wizard using them for utility is often much cheaper (esp at low levels). Craft a tiny recon golem, that also can double up as watch for the night. Improve your personal / groups mobility with an easy access, sturdy, fearless flying/diving/burrowing/... "mount". Etc etc.
For combat just memorise the odd BFC/buff spells and have the actual beatsticks have their fun, too. :smallwink:

I've been meaning to see if I could create an iron cobra with minimized bite damage, mostly to either see if I could turn it into a familiar somehow (and thus scout), and to dispense potions with its bite :smallbiggrin:. Also, seeing the clockwork constructs I can actually create steamjacks! :smallbiggrin:.


Might I suggest Animated Objects? They are cheap and can be very effective. An Adamantine one will have Hardness 20 which reduces ALL damage by 20 (including energy damage). One of the pricing systems for them is (CP+HD)*1000gp (half that for cost), which is pretty cheap and provides an easy guideline for making one with extra hit dice. The other system is 500*CR^2 for the price (half that for cost), which is better for tiny and small animated objects.

Also, PF rules let you give a proficiency with any weapon to a construct. You just pay the weapon cost to add or build it into it. It's a pretty cheap way to add a cannon, bow, or whatever.

I have toyed with the idea of having a Huge or Gargantuan Animated Tank with the Clockwork Template. Inside you could have Clockwork Servants, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/clockwork/clockwork-servant) who can repair damage. Essentially it would have the equivalent of Fast Healing. 4 of them, for instance, would heal 4d10 damage per round.

The only unfortunate thing is that the Clockwork Template comes with a +50% price increase and makes the Golem vulnerable to Electricity. About the only good benefit is getting healed by Clockwork Servants (Lightning Reflexes and Improved Initiative are not bad, but not worth the vulnerability and price increase).

There's nothing that disallows such a creature from granting you improved Cover if you are inside it either.

The Wax Golem has some nice bits though. It can become intelligent and get feats, though if it takes too much fire damage it will lose its memory.

Animated objects do seem to be the initial way to go, and clockwork constructs just read so cool. And, this bit of fluff made me giggle:

In the earlier days of clockwork technology, many practical hindrances prevented rapid maturation of the devices. Clockwork machines were powered by inefficient, costly resources; however, the advent of arcane enchantment not only has allowed for greater precision in the crafting of gears and other key components, but has also opened up a wide new range of possibilities for defensive systems and offensive weaponry. Early attempts to combine clockwork with steam power or other nonmagical forms of energy tended to overcomplicate the already delicate machinery, and have long since been abandoned as a result. Whispers abound of an even more unusual category of clockwork that has solved this problem and has merged the complexities of steam power with the adaptability of magical energies, yet such exotic and unusual clockworks remain nothing more than rumors in most worlds at this time.

Not in the Iron Kingdoms it ain't :smallcool:!.

Anyways, could it be possible to make a clockwork anything shield guardian?.

[schoklat]

I've been meaning to see if I could create an iron cobra with minimized bite damage, mostly to either see if I could turn it into a familiar somehow (and thus scout), and to dispense potions with its bite :smallbiggrin:. Also, seeing the clockwork constructs I can actually create steamjacks! :smallbiggrin:.

As familiar you could go for the Valet archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/valet-familiar-archetype).

[ArqArturo]

As familiar you could go for the Valet archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/valet-familiar-archetype).

You mean as in combine the two, or turn my otherwise common familiar into a useful one, without having something that might kill me in one bite by delivering a potion?.