In ioun stone we trust

[Justyz]

Hi folks, here's my theory on how the seemingly insignificant bauble snatch would be become MASSIVELY plot critical.


V, at some point in the future, will encounter red-cloak. She will somehow know that the red cloak is in fact a crazy artifact, take the orange ioun stone out, use it to cast the crazy 9th lvl spell disjunction (that she had used in the past on the Black Dragon) to disjunct the cloak - and then lose all spellcasting abilities (and may even enrage the dark one!).

I think she will do so purposely, and that will be her total redemption - after looking for the ultimate arcane power, to give up everything for a greater good.


And all thanks to blackwing, shiny bauble snatcher!!

[Shale]

Sadly, the bonus to caster level doesn't actually give V any new spell levels. That depends on class level. Caster level boosts all the factors within a spell that scale with level - fireball damage dice, spell range, that kind of thing.

[zimmerwald1915]

Hi folks, here's my theory on how the seemingly insignificant bauble snatch would be become MASSIVELY plot critical.


V, at some point in the future, will encounter red-cloak. She will somehow know that the red cloak is in fact a crazy artifact, take the orange ioun stone out, use it to cast the crazy 9th lvl spell disjunction (that she had used in the past on the Black Dragon) to disjunct the cloak - and then lose all spellcasting abilities (and may even enrage the dark one!).

I think she will do so purposely, and that will be her total redemption - after looking for the ultimate arcane power, to give up everything for a greater good.


And all thanks to blackwing, shiny bauble snatcher!!
Not to burst your bubble, but the theory that V will disjoin the Crimson Mantle and lose her spellcasting has been floating around for years.


Sadly, the bonus to caster level doesn't actually give V any new spell levels. That depends on class level. Caster level boosts all the factors within a spell that scale with level - fireball damage dice, spell range, that kind of thing.
Disjunction's chance of destroying an artifact depends on caster level; one percent chance per caster level to be precise.

[Souhiro]

Don't forget: V will disjunction the crimson mantle, leaving redcloak powerless (He can only cast spells because has the crimson mantle, since he got that disease in Start of Darkness)

V forgoes his spellcasting powers, but keep his bow, doing some callback to the "I'm proficient with it" in azure

And finally, someone tortures Redcloak to death. Maybe Zoidberg.

[Shale]

Disjunction's chance of destroying an artifact depends on caster level; one percent chance per caster level to be precise.

I thought the theory was that V would get access to 9th-level spells because of the caster level bonus. Maybe I misread.

[zimmerwald1915]

Don't forget: V will disjunction the crimson mantle, leaving redcloak powerless (He can only cast spells because has the crimson mantle, since he got that disease in Start of Darkness)
Absolute bosh. The Crimson Mantle provides three things: knowledge of The Plan, immunity to disease, and immunity to aging effects. Redcloak came by his Cleric levels through hard work and his adventures. They are his and will remain his unless they are drained by some necromantic effect...which V can't produce, having banned necromancy.

[Shale]

Depends on how the "immunity to disease" works. Is the spell virus still sitting in Redcloak's system, waiting to take effect if he ever loses the Mantle?

[SaintRidley]

I thought the theory was that V would get access to 9th-level spells because of the caster level bonus. Maybe I misread.

That's not how caster level bonuses work.

[Taelas]

Don't forget: V will disjunction the crimson mantle, leaving redcloak powerless (He can only cast spells because has the crimson mantle, since he got that disease in Start of Darkness)
He was never affected by the disease. :smallconfused: Yes, the Crimson Mantle is what made him immune in the first place, but he doesn't need it to cast spells. (See here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html).)

[zimmerwald1915]

That's not how caster level bonuses work.
That was Shale's point: that the theory wouldn't work because that's not how caster level bonuses work.

[SaintRidley]

He was never affected by the disease. :smallconfused: Yes, the Crimson Mantle is what made him immune in the first place, but he doesn't need it to cast spells. (See here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html).)

Although the disease could still be present in his body, if I follow Souhiro right. In that case remove the mantle (or better destroy it) and Redcloak loses his immunity and then it takes effect.

That's what I'm guessing Souhiro is getting at.

Unless the Giant starts dropping hints about what happened at Lirian's gate in the main comic, though, I don't see it happening. SoD-only knowledge won't be plot critical without first getting into the main comic and losing its SoD-only status.

[Taelas]

That is why I refuted the idea that Redcloak cannot cast without the Crimson Mantle by linking to a strip where he does exactly that.

[SaintRidley]

As the Bearer, perhaps there's some link that persists so long as he is alive and the Mantle exists.

It's not a totally ridiculous notion, anyway. Likely? I don't think so.

[Taelas]

It is a needless assumption. Ockham's Razor suggests Redcloak simply was immune to the disease and it hasn't affected him since, and he can cast just fine even if he doesn't wear the Mantle.

As you pointed out yourself, unless the Giant specifically references the disease within the comic, it is extremely unlikely to be a major plot point going forward.

[Reddish Mage]

Absolute bosh. The Crimson Mantle provides three things: knowledge of The Plan, immunity to disease, and immunity to aging effects. Redcloak came by his Cleric levels through hard work and his adventures. They are his and will remain his unless they are drained by some necromantic effect...which V can't produce, having banned necromancy.

Didn't you forget Smite? Just because we haven't seen evidence of other powers does not mean they're not there. However, given the evidence from SOD we can rule out that the cloak provides Red Cloak's cleric levels nor does it contain ridiculous levels of protection (that much we can see from how Soun nearly killed Redcloak or how Ochul took out his eye).

[Edric O]

That is why I refuted the idea that Redcloak cannot cast without the Crimson Mantle by linking to a strip where he does exactly that.
Let's not forget that unless Redcloak sleeps in the Crimson Mantle, its effects on the wearer certainly do not cease the moment he takes it off (because if he was spending 1/3 of every 24 hour period without the Mantle's anti-aging effect, he'd be much older and possibly dead by now).

So disjoining the Crimson Mantle is only likely to affect Redcloak some time later, after the Mantle's latent effect wears off - probably a day or a week later. It would cripple Redcloak in the long term, but won't make a difference in a fight.

[zimmerwald1915]

Didn't you forget Smite?
That is a domain granted power which might or might not be augmented by the Mantle, but which is not granted by it. Even if it is augmented by the Mantle, it is vastly inferior to implosion, which Redcloak states outright is not derived from the Mantle but from his levels.

[colanderman]

Depends on how the "immunity to disease" works. Is the spell virus still sitting in Redcloak's system, waiting to take effect if he ever loses the Mantle?

In 3.5, you either contract a disease or you don't; once you've made the saving throw(s) after the incubation period, you're golden. Not that that has much bearing on a non-SRD epic disease in a comic where story trumps rules :)

[Gift Jeraff]

I'm actually thinking V casts Disjunction on Kraagor's Gate, after the OOTS learns that no functioning Gate is better than a corrupted Gate.

[The Pilgrim]

This thread totally deserves Graham Chapman costumed as a British Army Officer.

[the_tick_rules]

Depends what kinda stone it is, if that's what it is.

[CombatOwl]

Hi folks, here's my theory on how the seemingly insignificant bauble snatch would be become MASSIVELY plot critical.


V, at some point in the future, will encounter red-cloak. She will somehow know that the red cloak is in fact a crazy artifact, take the orange ioun stone out, use it to cast the crazy 9th lvl spell disjunction (that she had used in the past on the Black Dragon) to disjunct the cloak - and then lose all spellcasting abilities (and may even enrage the dark one!).

I think she will do so purposely, and that will be her total redemption - after looking for the ultimate arcane power, to give up everything for a greater good.


And all thanks to blackwing, shiny bauble snatcher!!

I don't buy this theory at all. Why would V knowingly disjunction an artifact? There's so many better ways to deal with the problem. Not the least of which is a simple Resilient Sphere, which non-travel-domain clerics have a time escaping.

[zimmerwald1915]

I don't buy this theory at all. Why would V knowingly disjunction an artifact? There's so many better ways to deal with the problem. Not the least of which is a simple Resilient Sphere, which non-travel-domain clerics have a time escaping.
Destruction-domain clerics like Redcloak, who can prepare disintegrate, find resilient sphere just as easy to escape as Laurin did in this most recent strip. Redcloak has cast disintegrate in V's view.

As for disjunction V considered using it during the fight against Xykon before Jephton and Ganonron revealed Haerta had taken all the disjunctions with her when she broke free.

[CombatOwl]

Destruction-domain clerics like Redcloak, who can prepare disintegrate,

Unless he's used it already.


find resilient sphere just as easy to escape as Laurin did in this most recent strip. Redcloak has cast disintegrate in V's view.

He's still a prepared caster, therefore the strategy is sound if disintegrate has been used--or V has forced him to use it already. V has an awful lot of force spells. Certainly more force spells than Redcloak has prepared Disintegrates.


As for disjunction V considered using it during the fight against Xykon before Jephton and Ganonron revealed Haerta had taken all the disjunctions with her when she broke free.

Yeah, he considered it when he had epic spellcasters subcontracting his spellcasting. There's a big difference between using it when you think you had gotten it as part of the package deal, and choosing to get it in place of the evocations you're specialized in for your precious 9th level slots.

[KoboldRevenge]

Absolute bosh. The Crimson Mantle provides three things: knowledge of The Plan, immunity to disease, and immunity to aging effects. Redcloak came by his Cleric levels through hard work and his adventures. They are his and will remain his unless they are drained by some necromantic effect...which V can't produce, having banned necromancy.

Ah, but he does have a point about the Guardian Virus. Just because the Mantle protects from the disease doesn't means it eradicates it completely. One of it's selling points according to Laurin Lirian is, that it doesn't leave the nervous system. Ever.

And So, like some druid herpes, it can lay dormant through the ensuing 27 years. Only to crop up when it's the least convenient for him.

[NeumonicBlue]

Just a quick question, but any possibility that the "bauble" Laurin lost is actually a ioun stone or her psicrystal? I'm am of course making the assumption she has one.

[Adun]

If I remember well that Psicrystal are bigger than ioun stone

[coineineagh]

Maybe Zoidberg.
Scalpel. Bloodbucket. Priest. Next patient!

[SowZ]

Just a quick question, but any possibility that the "bauble" Laurin lost is actually a ioun stone or her psicrystal? I'm am of course making the assumption she has one.

That's the topic of the thread, actually. :P It is likely an orange ioun stone.

[Chantelune]

Depends what kinda stone it is, if that's what it is.

Ioun stone of über plot resolution. Once per book, it can be used to call forth a power strong enough to instantly resolve any bind than the protagonists are in. The forum then need to make a will saving roll vs readers (DC 80) or suffer the effects of the 10th lvl spell "whine of the Deus Ex Machina" :smallamused:

[thereaper]

Ah, but he does have a point about the Guardian Virus. Just because the Mantle protects from the disease doesn't means it eradicates it completely. One of it's selling points according to Laurin Lirian is, that it doesn't leave the nervous system. Ever.

And So, like some druid herpes, it can lay dormant through the ensuing 27 years. Only to crop up when it's the least convenient for him.

Actually, yes, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what immunity means in the context of D&D. Unless you can find some other example in the comic of a disease that doesn't obey this rule.

And again, we already have proof that Redcloak can cast without it, so the point is moot.

[DaggerPen]

I don't buy this theory at all. Why would V knowingly disjunction an artifact? There's so many better ways to deal with the problem. Not the least of which is a simple Resilient Sphere, which non-travel-domain clerics have a time escaping.

Can you Plane Shift your way out of a Resilient Sphere? Because Redcloak has Plane Shift, plus Gate. In addition to the aforementioned Disintegrates, of course. It might work if Redcloak was really low on spells, but that's likely to be after quite the fight.


Destruction-domain clerics like Redcloak, who can prepare disintegrate, find resilient sphere just as easy to escape as Laurin did in this most recent strip. Redcloak has cast disintegrate in V's view.

As for disjunction V considered using it during the fight against Xykon before Jephton and Ganonron revealed Haerta had taken all the disjunctions with her when she broke free.

Wait, was this in a bonus strip?

[Souhiro]

Actually, yes, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what immunity means in the context of D&D. Unless you can find some other example in the comic of a disease that doesn't obey this rule.

And again, we already have proof that Redcloak can cast without it, so the point is moot.

You know, that strip was written way before start of darkness. and also, as stated, unless Redcloak uses the crimson mantle as a blanket to sleep (Even when in Laurin's prison) he would have lost it's powers.

So I think that possession of the Mantle is enough. In SoD, when Redcloak dons the mantle for first time, he hovers a few foot, screams and deploys an eldrich aura. I don't think that EVERY TIME he dons the mantle in the morning when he dress up. So I think it's safe to say that "You only need posession".

Just like a Belt of CON: You need to wear it for 24 hours before it's bonus is considered "permanent". So... if you want to take a shower ¿You lose your bonus because you had to remove the belt? ¿The same would happen if you change your pants?

I think that "Posession" is usually Ok

[DaggerPen]

So I think that possession of the Mantle is enough. In SoD, when Redcloak dons the mantle for first time, he hovers a few foot, screams and deploys an eldrich aura. I don't think that EVERY TIME he dons the mantle in the morning when he dress up. So I think it's safe to say that "You only need posession".

That would be kind of hilarious, though.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/redxiv/tsukiko.gif: What was THAT?!
:xykon:: Just Redcloak's morning routine again. Don't worry about it.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/smilies/oots/roach.gif: Show-off.

But more seriously, given how Redcloak's mentor's spirit lingered to tell him to take the mantle, it's probably bound to the soul until another dons it or something.

[Kish]

Wait, was this in a bonus strip?
Which is This? Redcloak casting Disintegrate in front of Vaarsuvius (no, it was at the ship right before they fled Azure City) or the spliced souls mentioning that the Disjunction was Haerta's spell (no, it was when Vaarsuvius attacked Xykon)?

[DaggerPen]

Which is This? Redcloak casting Disintegrate in front of Vaarsuvius (no, it was at the ship right before they fled Azure City) or the spliced souls mentioning that the Disjunction was Haerta's spell (no, it was when Vaarsuvius attacked Xykon)?

The spliced souls mentioning that Disjunction was Haerta's spell.

And found it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html)! I had totally forgotten about that bit, thanks.

[CombatOwl]

Can you Plane Shift your way out of a Resilient Sphere?

Yes, but now Redcloak wastes two actions to V's one (plane shift to leave, plane shift to get back). In all honesty, three actions, since he would somehow need to teleport back there since plane shift is notoriously off-target. Unless he somehow picks up the travel domain, or a teleportation item, that's out of the cards... Even if all V can do is keep Redcloak disintegrating, that's a win for the OOTS. 1/6th of the order neutered 1/2 of Team Evil if that's how it plays out. Because an action spent disintegrating a resilient sphere is a an action not spent maintaining concentration on implosion.


Because Redcloak has Plane Shift, plus Gate. In addition to the aforementioned Disintegrates, of course. It might work if Redcloak was really low on spells, but that's likely to be after quite the fight.

Note; Laurin was losing because she was doing little but reacting. V does something, Laurin counters it. That's a horrible, horrible way to fight.

[The_Tentacle]

Why would using Disjunction on the Crimson Mantle (if that would even work, can you do that to artifacts) make V lose her spellcasting power?

[CombatOwl]

Why would using Disjunction on the Crimson Mantle (if that would even work, can you do that to artifacts) make V lose her spellcasting power?

Disjunction specifically talks about that as a consequence of successfully using it on an artifact. It's a low probability of even working. Moreover, it's almost certain that the entire non-Dark-One set of pantheons would be entirely willing to restore V's spellcasting (which can be done by gods) in payment for such a service.

[Kish]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm

[zimmerwald1915]

Why would using Disjunction on the Crimson Mantle (if that would even work, can you do that to artifacts) make V lose her spellcasting power?
Disjunction affects a spherical area 80 feet in diameter. Any active spells except antimagic field in that area are dispelled. Any magic items in that area that fail a Will save are destroyed. There are special rules for how disjunction interacts with antimagic fields and Artifacts; the caster has a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field or Artifact, though Artifacts get a Will save like items do. If an Artifact is affected by disjunction, and fails its Will save, the caster must in return make a DC 25 Will save or lose all her spellcasting powers.

To play out this particular scenario, let's assume that V has 17 levels of Wizard, an orange prism ioun stone, an Intelligence of 24, and a Wisdom of 10, and that Redcloak has 17 levels of Cleric and a Wisdom of 20. This would give V a caster level of 18 and a Will save bonus of +10, V's disjunction a DC of 26, and Redcloak a Will save bonus of +15. Let's have her cast disjunction centered on Xykon, with Redcloak happening to be in the area. V would have an 18% chance of affecting the Crimson Mantle (she would probably be surprised by the fact that it is an Artifact), which would then need an 11 or better (i.e., roughly even odds) not to be destroyed. Put another way, V would have a 9% chance of disjoining the Mantle. V would then have to roll below a 15, a 70% chance, to lose her spellcasting. Overall, the probability that the whole chain of events occurs, assuming it even gets started in the first place, is a little over 6%.1

1It hardly bears saying, but probability calculations like this only matter to the extent that they prove a thing is possible. Once a thing is possible, and heck, a little before then, probability takes a backseat to whatever the Giant decides ought to happen. Put another way, proving that a thing has a low probability of happening is a defense of the Giant choosing to make that thing happen, and is never a criticism of him choosing to make it happen.

[Chronos]

Or in other words, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper-piece harlot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html).

[Cuthalion]

Disjunction affects a spherical area 80 feet in diameter. Any active spells except antimagic field in that area are dispelled. Any magic items in that area that fail a Will save are destroyed. There are special rules for how disjunction interacts with antimagic fields and Artifacts; the caster has a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field or Artifact, though Artifacts get a Will save like items do. If an Artifact is affected by disjunction, and fails its Will save, the caster must in return make a DC 25 Will save or lose all her spellcasting powers.

To play out this particular scenario, let's assume that V has 17 levels of Wizard, an orange prism ioun stone, an Intelligence of 24, and a Wisdom of 10, and that Redcloak has 17 levels of Cleric and a Wisdom of 20. This would give V a caster level of 18 and a Will save bonus of +10, V's disjunction a DC of 26, and Redcloak a Will save bonus of +15. Let's have her cast disjunction centered on Xykon, with Redcloak happening to be in the area. V would have an 18% chance of affecting the Crimson Mantle (she would probably be surprised by the fact that it is an Artifact), which would then need an 11 or better (i.e., roughly even odds) not to be destroyed. Put another way, V would have a 9% chance of disjoining the Mantle. V would then have to roll below a 15, a 70% chance, to lose her spellcasting. Overall, the probability that the whole chain of events occurs, assuming it even gets started in the first place, is a little over 6%.1

1It hardly bears saying, but probability calculations like this only matter to the extent that they prove a thing is possible. Once a thing is possible, and heck, a little before then, probability takes a backseat to whatever the Giant decides ought to happen. Put another way, proving that a thing has a low probability of happening is a defense of the Giant choosing to make that thing happen, and is never a criticism of him choosing to make it happen.

But as a wizard, don't you think V could make the save?

[Kish]

DC 25? With a Wisdom of *ahem*? I would say more likely not.

[Cuthalion]

DC 25? With a Wisdom of *ahem*? I would say more likely not.

Ah, you're right. I overestimated the Wizard will save. Only +10 at 16th.

[zimmerwald1915]

Ah, you're right. I overestimated the Wizard will save. Only +10 at 16th.
The numbers are all right there in the post you quoted. On the other hand, anyone can make any save, because of how saves work.

[Kareasint]

But as a wizard, don't you think V could make the save?

Zimmer and Kish are correct. V would have a chance to make the save but the odds are against V making it (15 or higher on a D20).

Disjunction would be a good way to neutralize defensive spells that Xykon and Redcloak have set up in advance though, even if it does not destroy any magic items or the artifact. An Ioun Stone that grants +1 caster level might bump the spell into getting another 5 feet range (25 feet + 5 feet per two levels).

[Reddish Mage]

That is a domain granted power which might or might not be augmented by the Mantle, but which is not granted by it. Even if it is augmented by the Mantle, it is vastly inferior to implosion, which Redcloak states outright is not derived from the Mantle but from his levels.

Unless Redcloak gained a bunch of levels due to putting on the Mantle, thus being able to use Smite, despite, apparently, being young and low on on the church's hierarchy. Level 7 seems to me to be a more than "acolyte" level..

Btw, not to take things off topic, but are we sure the orange stone is +1 to Caster level?

[Shale]

There's only one kind of orange Ioun Stone.

[Cuthalion]

Unless Redcloak gained a bunch of levels due to putting on the Mantle, thus being able to use Smite, despite, apparently, being young and low on on the church's hierarchy. Level 7 seems to me to be a more than "acolyte" level..

Btw, not to take things off topic, but are we sure the orange stone is +1 to Caster level?

Smite is a domain power. First level destruction clerics can use it.

[Kareasint]

Btw, not to take things off topic, but are we sure the orange stone is +1 to Caster level?

Ioun Stones (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#iounStones)

[eilandesq]

If the Crimson Mantle is part of the Dorian Gray style ensemble, then blasting it with Disjunction might turn Redcloak into a "good goblin"* rather instantaneously, making his still-retained 17+ cleric levels rather useless.

*--as the now-Imploded elven commander would have put it.

[Nightsbridge]

Note; Laurin was losing because she was doing little but reacting. V does something, Laurin counters it. That's a horrible, horrible way to fight.

Unless you thought they were low on ammunition and were simply waiting until they ran out. Laurin was wrong, of course, but considering that she likely knew that the Order was fighting Tarquin and friends all day, it is not bad to assume that maybe the wizard is low on spells. It was a good strategy considering what she believed to be true. That she was wrong does not change it.

[Crimsonmantle]

Hey! I finally got Start of Darkness and read it all today; and I come to this thread and it's all stuff I wouldn't have understood otherwise and now I understand it all! :smallcool:

[Bulldog Psion]

Doesn't it seem likely that Redcloak doesn't have the virus, considering that he would have been spreading it like a plague flea to the world's magic users for all these years if he did?

[CombatOwl]

Unless you thought they were low on ammunition and were simply waiting until they ran out.

It's a bad assumption even then, for the way D&D combat works. "Let me keep doing nothing but countering actions, under the assumption that I will be able to find a counter for every effect that elf throws my way..."

That's some pretty piss poor logic in a fight against a wizard, since there are quite a lot of effect that could have just taken her out immediately if she failed a save. The whole principle at work in the fight rested on V not using save or die spells.


Laurin was wrong, of course, but considering that she likely knew that the Order was fighting Tarquin and friends all day, it is not bad to assume that maybe the wizard is low on spells. It was a good strategy considering what she believed to be true. That she was wrong does not change it.

It was a bad one even in that case. Even if this nonsense went on for only two or three rounds, the rest of the order would have just come out of the background and beaten her to death with superior action economy.

[Cuthalion]

Doesn't it seem likely that Redcloak doesn't have the virus, considering that he would have been spreading it like a plague flea to the world's magic users for all these years if he did?

I thought it was dormant or something. I haven't read SoD, but that's one of the theories.

[nyjastul69]

If V were to Disjunction Red Cloak's mantle the chance for her to lose her spellcasting is going to be either 0% or 100%, I doubt Rich will actually roll any dice.

[nogall]

Ioun stone of über plot resolution. Once per book, it can be used to call forth a power strong enough to instantly resolve any bind than the protagonists are in. The forum then need to make a will saving roll vs readers (DC 80) or suffer the effects of the 10th lvl spell "whine of the Deus Ex Machina" :smallamused:

The force (to understand both how the giant writes and how the forum works) is strong in this one.

[eilandesq]

If V were to Disjunction Red Cloak's mantle the chance for her to lose her spellcasting is going to be either 0% or 100%, I doubt Rich will actually roll any dice.

He'd probably provide "flavor text" that is not listed in the rules' description of the effect--regardless of the outcome, it would be depicted as an epic struggle with V's magic visbly waxing and waning and culminating in a flash of light. . .with the outcome being in doubt until V. tried to cast a spell again and either failed or succeeded after a long, drama inducing pause. And it would be awesome, regardless of the outcome. :smallcool:

[Bogardan_Mage]

If I remember well that Psicrystal are bigger than ioun stone
In Snips, Snails and Dragon Tails, Psteve has a Psicrystal that is noticeably larger than any of Laurin's ioun stones. So yes.

[Nightsbridge]

It was a bad one even in that case. Even if this nonsense went on for only two or three rounds, the rest of the order would have just come out of the background and beaten her to death with superior action economy.

They had that before too, and the end result was Roy getting impaled on his own sword. Besides, the alternative was letting V trap her in a cage/bubble in which she could do nothing or leave a dimensional anchor on her squishy, glass-cannon caster body. What would you have her do instead? Make faces at V through the prison?

[Forikroder]

Depends on how the "immunity to disease" works. Is the spell virus still sitting in Redcloak's system, waiting to take effect if he ever loses the Mantle?

such a dangerous virus would never be given such a long shelf life, if it could survive in redcloak for this long then it must be capable of reproducing itself, which means it could be contagious, which means Laruins virus could have wiped out every magic user in the world if she wasnt careful

so no i imagine the virus was not built to last too long, jsut long enough to get them in an anti-magic cell

[Mastikator]

Although the disease could still be present in his body, if I follow Souhiro right. In that case remove the mantle (or better destroy it) and Redcloak loses his immunity and then it takes effect.

That's what I'm guessing Souhiro is getting at.

Unless the Giant starts dropping hints about what happened at Lirian's gate in the main comic, though, I don't see it happening. SoD-only knowledge won't be plot critical without first getting into the main comic and losing its SoD-only status.

Technically the pathogen might be present in his body, the disease certainly isn't.

[Socksy]

It might just be the art style, but none of the Ioun stones (including the ones in the Psionics Handbook) that come anywhere near the colour of the one Blackwing stole are spherical. So perhaps it's a homebrew stone?

[brionl]

It might just be the art style, but none of the Ioun stones (including the ones in the Psionics Handbook) that come anywhere near the colour of the one Blackwing stole are spherical. So perhaps it's a homebrew stone?

Or perhaps it's hard to make specific shapes on something that is only 2-3 pixels across.