Soul Gems in 3.5

[The Trickster]

I am looking for a way, by RAW, to have Skyrim-like soul gems in D&D.

The idea for the game world is that regular currency (gold, silver, etc) is not as coveted. The main form of trade is based on collecting "soul gems", or gems that collect the souls of a deceased being.

For this, I only need a way to collect these souls (preferably, a way for even lower level characters to do it. Perhaps a magic item?). I don't need to be exactly like Skyrim, where a soul trapping weapon/spell is needed. (Although if the only way to do it by RAW is this way, that's fine too.)

Any ideas?

[Slipperychicken]

You can use souls to contribute toward XP costs in item crafting. IIRC they're like 10xp per HD of the creature's soul.

I think thayan (EDIT: Thinaun) blades can store a soul of a creature they kill.

As for currency, I think either demons or devils use soul larvae as money.

[Psyren]

Note that this is extremely evil in D&D. I'm not certain if you can use non-sapient life for this purpose though.

[Xervous]

On top of being evil, you'd have to really think about what kind of market this currency would foster. It certainly would be similar to the typical DnD planar blackmarket, but potentially with the added issue that the supplier and consumer are both raw ingredients for the product...

[The Trickster]

Evil? Oh yeah. It is part thought experiment, part practical, however. I may use something similar to soul gems in the game, but not actually souls. I am still deciding if the campaign will be evil or not.

Does anyone know where the Thayan weapons are? My google-fu is failing me.

[cakellene]

Isn't there a spell called Trap the Soul?

[kardar233]

Does anyone know where the Thayan weapons are? My google-fu is failing me.

I believe that they are confusing Thayan (an adjective pertaining to the Forgotten Realms nation of Thay) with Thinaun, a soul-trapping material located in Complete Warrior, p. 136-137.

[Slipperychicken]

I believe that they are confusing Thayan (an adjective pertaining to the Forgotten Realms nation of Thay) with Thinaun, a soul-trapping material located in Complete Warrior, p. 136-137.

My bad. The two sounded kind of similar :smalltongue:

[CyberThread]

On top of being evil, you'd have to really think about what kind of market this currency would foster. It certainly would be similar to the typical DnD planar blackmarket, but potentially with the added issue that the supplier and consumer are both raw ingredients for the product...


It would seem that those that trade in souls, would also know about soul fire.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It would seem that those that trade in souls, would also know about soul fire.

That aside, it's just good business to leave your supplier/costumer alone so they can bring you more souls/buy more souls from you.
Screwing him over for a single soul is just not worth it.

Establishing yourself as a soul trader could have serious drawbacks though.
As some people already mentioned it's not just evil but EVIL. You'll draw paladin orders and adventuring groups like moths to a flame.
"More souls for me!" you might say, but they only have to get lucky once.

[Psyren]

Evil? Oh yeah. It is part thought experiment, part practical, however. I may use something similar to soul gems in the game, but not actually souls. I am still deciding if the campaign will be evil or not.

I called out the alignment bit of it, because it's not particularly evil in TES. For one, the most powerful souls tend to be of very amoral beings (daedra) and it's not clear that the souls are actually destroyed - it's not even clear whether or not they become part of the item you're making. It's just as likely that the soul is used as a focus to bind the magical energies to the object, and then released to... wherever souls go in TES for reuse by the cosmos. TES I believe is more closely based on Hindu mythology than the more western sensibilities and concepts (like Heaven and Hell) of D&D.

[Drachasor]

I'd just call them Essence Gems and remove the soul bit. Say the soul goes on to its afterlife or whatever. Obviously it doesn't work on summons or the like.

[Heliomance]

I called out the alignment bit of it, because it's not particularly evil in TES. For one, the most powerful souls tend to be of very amoral beings (daedra) and it's not clear that the souls are actually destroyed - it's not even clear whether or not they become part of the item you're making. It's just as likely that the soul is used as a focus to bind the magical energies to the object, and then released to... wherever souls go in TES for reuse by the cosmos. TES I believe is more closely based on Hindu mythology than the more western sensibilities and concepts (like Heaven and Hell) of D&D.

Dawnguard makes it very clear what happens to them - they're imprisoned for eternity in the Soul Cairn, a VERY unpleasant realm of Oblivion.

[Zanos]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trapTheSoul.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/soulBind.htm

These spells may be of use. You could probably soul bind down quite a few levels and make it so that you have to cast it on an enemy before they die. If people are wasting an action/spell slot in combat to trap the souls that puts a put of risk into it.

[JeenLeen]

If you wanted to avoid alignment but still weaken other currencies, you could have it be that when someone dies, the energy/whatever of their passing can be captured in a nearby soulgem.

The soulgem's shape/color/something changes with respect to the power of the person killed (thereby stronger foes give more loot), which in turn gives it more value & lets it be used more easily with crafting magic items.

It doesn't actually imprison the soul (although maybe some peasants fear them, thinking it does), so it's not evil. It certainty encourages murder.

In their 'empty' form, the soulgems are basic, clear gems, pretty plentiful, so it's easy to get more. Most adventurers would carry several, letting them charge as they defeat monsters. Maybe most folk keep one on their person as a morbid 'life insurance', to leave a bit of wealth behind for the family when they die of old age.

[Larkas]

I confess I didn't play with Enchanting in Skyrim, but back in Morrowind, IIRC, you couldn't trap humanoid souls.

[Drachasor]

I confess I didn't play with Enchanting in Skyrim, but back in Morrowind, IIRC, you couldn't trap humanoid souls.

Black Soul Gems

[Slipperychicken]

Dawnguard makes it very clear what happens to them - they're imprisoned for eternity in the Soul Cairn, a VERY unpleasant realm of Oblivion.

So if I get that expansion, then Oblivion is going to be filled with bunnies, foxes, goats, and other miscellaneous wildlife?

[Andezzar]

Black Soul GemsExactly. For added incentive to use them and spiral into evil, all sentient beings have grand souls, but only the most powerful non-sentient beings have grand souls.

[PraxisVetli]

So if I get that expansion, then Oblivion is going to be filled with bunnies, foxes, goats, and other miscellaneous wildlife?

That's funny.

I promote the Essence idea, especially because of the alignment thing. Even without that, if this was somehow widely acceptable, it still seems off.
Tge morbid life insurance sounds awesome (like combining ancient chinese and pharonic beliefs).

If there XP based, 10xp/HD seems low. thinking four encounters/ level, of the same level, thethen then shouldn't it be 100-150 xp/ HD? (Though later levels when HD and CR stop being similiar, that doesn't work).

[Psyren]

Dawnguard makes it very clear what happens to them - they're imprisoned for eternity in the Soul Cairn, a VERY unpleasant realm of Oblivion.

Don't the entities in charge devour the souls there? Where do they go after that?

Still, my point stands, you can use all manner of either non-sapient or quasi-souls for enchanting in TES without ever siphoning from humanoid life.

[Larkas]

I approve of the "essence" idea. In regular D&D cosmology, IIRC, as the soul passes on, it loses all memory of its previous life, to begin its existence anew as a petitioner. If you trap those experiences but not the soul, you could still justify the power gained while the act not being inherently evil. Of course, you could only "properly" resurrect a being if you broke the "essence gem" containing its memories... :smallwink:


Black Soul Gems


Exactly. For added incentive to use them and spiral into evil, all sentient beings have grand souls, but only the most powerful non-sentient beings have grand souls.

Oooooh, true that. Forgot about those.