Just got my Pact Magic Unbound. Now what?

[Mjollnir075]

Finally received my copy of Radiance House' Pact Magic Unbound, Vol: 1. and I have given it a good first read through. Lots of pretty cool stuff in there.

I'm curious to see what the playground has to say about this. How do you guys feel about this 3rd party Binder-remake? Are you excited for PMU Vol. 2?

What are some cool tricks/combos/builds you guys have seen/come up with either using the new binder,The Occultist, and/or the archetypes for the base classes?

[Benthesquid]

At level fifteen, I had more or less permanently bound the Cave Mother into an Animated Object Baba Yaga house, which provided transportation, shelter, and provisions. Not a terribly high-op use of the power, but fun and flavorful!

[Grollub]

volume 2 is already out

[The Random NPC]

I believe Psyren is working on a handbook, no idea when he'll be done though.

[Psyren]

Volume 2 is indeed out (http://paizo.com/products/btpy92zr?Pact-Magic-Unbound-Vol-2) and holy crap, it's even better than the original. There are now many, many more options for low-level occultists, plus occult archetypes for the other paizo classes like the Alchemist and Inquisitor that look really fun. The designers have also done a phenomenal job creating "spiritual successors" to some of the ToM vestiges, such as the 1st-level vestige Marat who is very clearly an update to Savnok.

And yes, I've been Occulting it up for weeks now. There is a lot to cover and my guide is only focusing on Volume 1 (I like to wait until things are on the PFSRD before going into detail on them.) The good news is that the lion's share (the vestiges themselves) is done and I've even got the designer's FAQ/errata bits in.

I can help with tricks/combos/etc. here - as with the 3.5 Binder though, you have to give me an idea of what you want to play and what levels. The most important choice for any Occultist is going to be "caster or gish?"as that will affect your stat allocation, choice of race and which vestiges spirits you gravitate towards. (Also, "gish" can be further subdivided into "ranged, melee or switch-hitter.")

[Mjollnir075]

Oh, well, I didn't actually have anything specific in mind. I just got the book yesterday and gave it a un-thorough read through. I think that your upcoming handbook will probably be able to appease all my Occulting needs.

That being said, I will request a cool little build from you, to showcase what the Occultist can do.

I'm currently DMing (I'm stuck as perma-DM) a RotRL game for a few friends who have only ever played Pathfinder, so have never heard of Pact Magic before. Now, they are currently at Thistletop, which if you didn't know, is at the end of the first main chapter. That means I have some free time to run them around a bit before the next big chapter starts. I would love to throw together a dungeon run and have the main enemies be Occultists (possibly trying to bring a Vestige into the Material plane?)

So, that being said, what would you recommend for 3 different Occultists?

One being caster based, one melee based, and one leader (however you want to interpret that), then I can fill in the minions and whatever.

Also, as for Vol. 2, only the PDF is out, right? or am I just crazy?
If it's just the pdf out and not the print, I'll probably just wait for it.

[Psyren]

I got the bundle, which includes the PDF now and a pre-order for the book when it hits print. (Like DSP, RH does the soft copy first to catch errors.)

Melee, caster and leader, huh? :smallsmile: Quite doable, what levels?

Levels 1-5: 1 vestige
Levels 6-9: 2 vestiges
Levels 10-13: 3 vestiges
Levels 14+: 4 vestiges

[Mjollnir075]

Level 6 for all three should be fine. I think the PCs will be about level 5. That being said, they are Gestalt.

Specifically, Synthesist Summoner//(homebrewed) Dread Necromancer, Druid//Witch, and Druid//Mindchemist Alchemist. As you can see, not the most optimized, but they aren't weak by any means. I would like to be able to challenge them and really put them to the test, as well as showcase the cool aspects of the class.

Also, just out of curiosity, how would you build stronger versions of these? in the 14+ level area. I could possibly use these guys down the road as possible recurring villians.

[Metahuman1]

Path of War, Occultist, Psionics, has flow shaping gotten an update yet? If so, I just might have to finally start buying pathfinder material and finally, after a near eternity of resisting, convert over to Pathfinder.

[Psyren]

Note: I'm in a plane so if I don't answer for a long stretch it probably means I've lost internet :smallsmile:

Your first choice is going to be whether you want them to be pure Occultists or whether you want to give the archetypes like Warshade Fighter a try. For simplicity's sake I'll have all three be pure Occultists, though of course for a focused build (e.g. caster, or dedicated melee) an archetype will generally perform better due to spells and BAB/proficiencies/bonus feats. Note that most of the archetypes get full binding progression, at the cost of being limited to a single vestige and being limited to certain constellations.

Anyway, here we go. 20 Point Buy:

Melee:
Half-Orc Occultist 6
Str 18 (15, +2 racial +1 level)
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14

Nickname: Pain Train

Physical description: This brutal, shaggy looking half-orc is a tower of muscle. His grayish-green skin is offset by shockingly blonde hair and cold eyes the color of sapphires. As he sneers at you, you notice his teeth are filed to points. He lazily holds a massive greatsword over his shoulder as easily as one would carry a parasol. A large, equally savage dog lounges by his feet.

Spirits:
Tyrant Cromwell, The Black Knight
Sevnoir, Meandering Mastiff

Strategy: Sevnoir gives him quadruple speed charges so he can get up in somebody's grill very quickly. Despite not having 6 BAB yet, he does have Vital Strike, which lets him roll 4d6 + bonuses on every standard attack. Combined with Sevnoir's move action intimidate and his racial bonuses to same, he's not someone you want to stand in front of very long. His animal companion is even faster than he is, letting him set up flanks quickly. The dog is specced to intimidate and trip opponents, and he will typically try to take down a prone foe very quickly with a two-handed power attack. He'll typically apply both Pact Augmentations to his attack roll to offset the power attack penalties, effectively giving him +4 damage for free. He'll typically activate Empowered Vestigial Might (getting him to 24 Str before gear) either right before charging or right before a Vital Strike, but always near the beginning of combat so he has a chance of doing it again later.

Feats: Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Combat Reflexes, {Power Attack}, {Vital Strike}, Empower Major Ability (secret), Medium Armor Proficiency.

Gear: Greatsword +1, etc.


I'll edit in the rest later as we'll be landing soon.

EDIT 1: if your party is gestalt you will probably either want these guys to be gestalt too or make them higher level.

EDIT 2: Landed and it turns out I'm going out, so I'll flesh out the other two later, but at a high level I envision the Support Occultist being a trickster class with high Cha (Gnome or Kitsune work well here) with Vandrae and either Ubro or Muse Istago bound, while the Caster is a darker +Cha race (Human/Drow/Dhampir/Fetchling/Ifrit) who has bound Lady Jarah and Hessant or Mute Sylvus.

Note once again that PMU vol. 2 has much better caster options at these levels, e.g. Forash and Lord Foxglove.

[The Random NPC]

I have a question for you, if you were on a 15 point buy, had to be human and wanted to be capable in melee, how would you stat that Occultist? Or would you say to go caster for this?

[Psyren]

I have a question for you, if you were on a 15 point buy, had to be human and wanted to be capable in melee, how would you stat that Occultist? Or would you say to go caster for this?

Much the same. He would end up at level 6:

Str 15 (18)
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 12

for 15 PB. I prefer 20 PB though since that is PFS level and thus the fairest. I also like the mild subversion of a half-orc melee build that has a few tricks up its sleeve beyond simple attacking. This guy can easily get to 26 Str or more at level 6 for one scarily massive attack. Phantom Armor makes him hard to hit too despite 2-handing. His dog (a mastiff) will be medium-sized at level 6 with 17 Str and will get free trips on every bite, for a powerful flanking buddy.

At higher levels he will either switch to Fey Baraddu for super-wildshape or stay with other melee weapon spirits.

Switching up the other builds a bit.

Trickster Occultist:
20 PB

Drow Occultist 6
Str 10
Dex 17 (14, +2 racial, +1 level)
Con 12 (14, -2 racial)
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 18 (16, +2 racial)

Nickname: Wild Ghost

Physical description: This handsome drow has a hard cast to his features. The scratches and tribal tattoos covering his skin, as well as the branches and feathers stuck haphazardly in his hair give him a wild look, as though he has been living outdoors, but his sophisticated garb and cultured demeanor paradoxically suggest a life of ease. He trains a longbow unerringly at your heart.

Spirits:
Mute Sylvus, Sole Survivor
Vandrae, Drowess Poisontouch

Strategy: This guy relies on Vandrae's darkness and sneak attack (2d6) to drop foes quickly. His darkness globe stops darkvision, but Vandrae lets him see through it, making him a dangerous sniper. He also has HiPS. The globe is stationary, so the best defense is to draw him out of it or use area attacks. He has both low-light and darkvision thanks to Sylvus, as well as longbow proficiency. If a melee gets close to him, he will attempt to knock them out with Vandrae's sleep poison and then sneak away, or CdG with his rapier. His Pact Augmentations go to initiative, giving him a total bonus of +8 before Dex - going first will let him get a free sneak attack on an unwary foe. His rounds will typically be move action to drop a darkness globe and standard action to shoot, before moving on to the next target. I envision him as a bit of a loner and so he typically won't accept the aid of any vestigial companions as that would diminish his own personal power.

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Point-Blank Shot, Improved Initiative, {Precise Shot}, Bonus: Rapid Recovery

Gear: +1 Longbow etc.


Caster Occultist (Support/Control):
20 PB

Kitsune Occultist 6
Str 6 (8, -2 racial)
Dex 14 (12, +2 racial)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 23 (18, +2 racial, +1 level, +2 enhancement)

Nickname: Untouchable

Physical description (Human): This stunningly beautiful woman's milky white eyes suggest blindness, but her graceful steps and poise suggest she has no difficulty seeing. She smiles invitingly at you, yet your eyes seem to have trouble staying focused on her for long. The scent of exotic flowers follows her wherever she goes.

Physical description (Fox): This vulpine creature stands on two legs and directs barking, yet musical laughter at you. Its pale fur and tail are impeccably groomed and patterned with detailed markings. Despite milky white eyes, you feel that it follows every move you make. The slightly musky odor of fox is barely noticeable beneath the scent of exotic perfume and flowers that surrounds the creature.

Spirits:
Lady Jarah, Mistress of Many Faces
Ubro, Blind Hospitaler

Strategy: Lady Jarah is deadly on a caster occultist - you can potentially lock down an entire enemy force. Selective Ability is mandatory for a caster Occultist so you don't fascinate allies or heal enemies; you also definitely don't want Ubro's influence since he will likely force you to heal your enemies. Your save DC for fascinate will be a whopping DC 24 at level 6: 10 +3 (half EBL) +6 (Cha) +2 (Ability Focus) +1 (Spirit Focus) +1 (Constellation Focus), and her Sanctuary will be DC 22. The caster will use Sanctuary to move about the battlefield safely, positioning herself to catch as many enemies with Jarah's Aura as possible, or back towards allies to heal them with Ubro (3d6). Alternatively, she will stay near allies to heal with Ubro while her parrot familiar flies over to enemies to fascinate them. Meanwhile, the Melee and Trickster will be picking enemies off on the fringes. Because Ubro's heal is not an attack, it will break neither the fascinate effect nor the sanctuary.

Feats: Selective Ability, Constellation Focus (Thief), Ability Focus (Aura of Distracting Beauty), Bonus:Spirit Focus (Lady Jarah).

Gear: Headband of Alluring Charisma +2 etc.

All these guys have weak wisdom - I did this because Occultists have good will saves anyway, and I think pact magic tends to attract the more reckless sort :smalltongue:

[The Random NPC]

I forgot to mention, I'll be playing in an E8 game, loosely based on Highlander (all our enemies will be immortal, mythic, and the only way to kill them is to cut off their head).

[Mjollnir075]

Sorry for the late reply (work, ya' know..), but man Psyren, this is perfect. I went and double checked all the Spirits and their abilities for each character, and its perfect.

I can already imagine the eclectic group that a cabal of Pact Magi would draw, and these guys are definitely out of the norm for the enemies found in RotRL. I think that these three will be perfect to both showcase the powers that come from pact magic and diversify our game from what we have been doing.

So, I know you mentioned possibly gestalting or increasing their levels to keep it a challenge for the gestalted PCs. Which do you think would work better? So far, I haven't been gestalting the enemies, just kind of "powering them up", but it wasn't an idea I was set on. I'm still relatively new to DMing, and I wasn't sure if gestalting the enemies would result in an unwanted TPK.

[The Random NPC]

In general, gestalting doesn't increase power by much. While it does give you more options, you only have so many actions to use them in. Personally, I would suggest boosting the levels.
EDIT: In case you didn't see it, Psyren's handbook is up. Link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16677769#post16677769).