The Return of Miron?

[dtilque]

Miron did an involuntary boogie when his contingency spell went off. By now, he's probably consumed several healing potions and could return to the battle. However, if he teleports back to the place where the contingency spell went off, he'd be a long way away from when the action is now.

But could Laurin give him the coordinates of the Mechane telepathically? Does telepathy only work verbally or can she send an image he could use as coordinates? And does she need to be within sight of him to communicate telepathically? She's retreated, probably to her own city, while MIron's spell no doubt took him to his city.

If he does return, he'll be more powerful than V. He's hardly cast any spells, at least on-screen (although he must have cast at least one Teleport off-screen) and he probably is at least a couple levels higher than V.

[sims796]

If he could, he'd be better prepared for a four-man dog pile.

[Trillium]

In fact, Lauring could have teleported to Weepingham, and is now about to grab now-healthy Miron and teleport back onto Mechane. While V may hold off a single caster, (s)he can't hold hir ground against two at once - one of whom has barely touched his spell slots today.

[Chantelune]

In fact, Lauring could have teleported to Weepingham, and is now about to grab now-healthy Miron and teleport back onto Mechane. While V may hold off a single caster, (s)he can't hold hir ground against two at once - one of whom has barely touched his spell slots today.

Or they might decide that "frak it, those guys are more trouble than its worth, and they only have worth for Tarquin, not us."

Sure, Miron has his favor called, but if he's not loyal, he might just decide he'll wait for the next time T decide to call it out, if he survive at all on his own.

[Deliverance]

Miron did an involuntary boogie when his contingency spell went off. By now, he's probably consumed several healing potions and could return to the battle. However, if he teleports back to the place where the contingency spell went off, he'd be a long way away from when the action is now.

A long way? The Mechane may be swift for an airship, but it is hardly a supersonic plane.

He's been gone for a few rounds, most of which the Mechane spent first approaching the place where Miron was fighting, and then hanging stationary over it.

No, if Miron is willing to try to teleport back, he'll be fairly close to the Mechane should he return to where he left, but possibly not within dimension door range.

A much greater question would be whether Miron, assuming he wanted to return in the first place and didn't use it as a cop-out, has Greater Teleport prepared or available through other means; His character as shown until now doesn't seem to me to be the type to risk his own life by teleporting nearly blindly into the desert to a spot he's seen only once and which is indistinguishable from the most of the rest of the desert using the normal Teleport spell.

It is dangerous to venture guesses in OOTS, but nevertheless... I don't think we'll see Miron again in this fight unless Laurin, who appears to be their transportation specialist, returns with reinforcements.

[Roland Itiative]

I don't see much point in Miron coming back. Roy will eventually come back too, and without Laurin to nuke the whole party, we'll just see a repeat of "Miron tries to cast, Roy doesn't let him".

[TheWombatOfDoom]

If he could, he'd be better prepared for a four-man dog pile.

Four Man-dog pile? :smalleek:

I think Miron coming back now would be a bit anticlimactic. Tarquin has slowly been situated to be alienated from everyone. Now they either leave him or he dies. I'm not sure which will happen.

[Spoomeister]

He had to be seriously arm-twisted into it in the first place. I seriously doubt he's coming back.

[Living Oxymoron]

In my opinion, Laurin's retreat was a hint that Miron's Contingency was a "contingency", if you understand what I mean.

[SlashDash]

And let's not forget Durkon will return shortly with spells prepeared.

[dtilque]

And let's not forget Durkon will return shortly with spells prepeared.

No, he won't. It takes an hour to refresh spells.

Hijacking my own thread here, but something occured to me having to do with Miron.

V got intelligence about Laurin from Sabine. But she was talking about their entire team, not just Laurin. What do you think she said about Miron? Something that gave V the idea to concentrate attacks on Miron in 928 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html)?

[Kish]

No, he won't. It takes an hour to refresh spells.

Hijacking my own thread here, but something occured to me having to do with Miron.

V got intelligence about Laurin from Sabine. But she was talking about their entire team, not just Laurin. What do you think she said about Miron? Something that gave V the idea to concentrate attacks on Miron in 928 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html)?
Quite possibly, something along the lines of, "...and Miron has the lowest hit points of anyone in the party, and he's kind of a coward..."

[Keltest]

No, he won't. It takes an hour to refresh spells.

Hijacking my own thread here, but something occured to me having to do with Miron.

V got intelligence about Laurin from Sabine. But she was talking about their entire team, not just Laurin. What do you think she said about Miron? Something that gave V the idea to concentrate attacks on Miron in 928 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html)?

As far as that goes, its just common sense. Disable the wizard first. No matter how theyre built, they will be able to cause more havoc to a party than a fighter. It could be that s/he was told about the contingency spell though.

[Ridureyu]

We will be at the end of the comic.

Xykon and Redcloak will be defeated, the Snarl vanquished, both worlds saved. There will be a final joke, and the words "THE END" will splash across the page, with one final joke from Elan.

And there will be people on the forum predicting that Laurin and Miron are going to teleport back in and fight any second now.

[NerdyKris]

It's entirely likely that V knew of Miron's contingency from Sabine. Instead of a lucky guess, Sabine probably told V "Miron always has a contingency set up for when he takes a lot of damage in one round.".

[Bulldog Psion]

Miron saw no reason for the fight to begin with. He came along reluctantly, and was almost killed for his pains. He barely escaped alive from a situation he thought was pointless idiocy to begin with.

So, I doubt he'll return. Or if he does, it'll be much later, when the adventurers are sure to be gone, in order to pick up Tarquin's corpse to carry it back for resurrection.

[Trillium]

...in order to pick up Tarquin's corpse to carry it back for resurrection.

Or disintegration...

[Bulldog Psion]

Or disintegration...

I think Tarquin's too useful for that. Thinking that a specific action is an idiotic risk and participating in it reluctantly is a far cry from destroying 1/6 of the team that's making their scheme work.

[Keltest]

Or disintegration...

I highly doubt that outcome. Even if the rest of the party were to hate the guy, his permanent death would leave the empire of blood without a handler. The scam needs 3 teams to make it work, and with Malak permanently dead, they need all hands on deck.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Note that contingency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm) itself does not have a teleportation effect; it triggers a spell chosen in advance by the caster, such as teleport.

[Cavenskull]

As far as that goes, its just common sense. Disable the wizard first. No matter how theyre built, they will be able to cause more havoc to a party than a fighter.
Yeah, but Laurin isn't a fighter either. Vaarsuvius probably chose to attack Miron first in part due to knowledge that Laurin was already low on power points. With that in mind, it was better to hurry up and get the relatively fresh Miron out of the picture than it was to get rid of the psion that has already wasted a large quantity of power points just trying to keep up with the Order of the Stick.

[dtilque]

Note that contingency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm) itself does not have a teleportation effect; it triggers a spell chosen in advance by the caster, such as teleport.

Of course. But it tells us that Teleport is one of Miron's spells. In fact, he's probably already used one earlier today, since he was in the EoB before Laurin Wormholed him and Kilkil to where everyone else was (here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0915.html)). How did he get to the EoB? Most likely he Teleported.

So if he has a couple more prepared, he may teleport back to the battle. I'm not saying he will, but we can't rule out the possibility.

Now people are saying he was a reluctant combatant and will not want to rejoin the fight. And they're no doubt right, he probably won't go back without good reason. But Laurin may feel that Tarquin needs some magical backup so may try to convince him to go back. So I think it's not impossible for him to show up again.

[Rodin]

From a story point of view, it's unlikely. Miron's return right now can only serve 3 purposes:

1) Draw the fight out, but Tarquin and company still lose. Not really any reason to do so as it just bloats the story.

2) Swing the fight in Tarquin's favor, so that he wins. Since Tarquin is at Dalek-level EXTERMINATE mode right now, also unlikely.

3) Provide a way out for Tarquin. However, Laurin was already providing that role, and could easily have done so while having a caster fight in the background.

I think that this is going to be the end for Tarquin, one way or another. Miron's Contingency was a convenient way to get him out of the story.

[Living Oxymoron]

Hijacking my own thread here, but something occured to me having to do with Miron.

V got intelligence about Laurin from Sabine. But she was talking about their entire team, not just Laurin. What do you think she said about Miron? Something that gave V the idea to concentrate attacks on Miron in 928 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html)?


Quite possibly, something along the lines of, "...and Miron has the lowest hit points of anyone in the party, and he's kind of a coward..."

The problem with this theory is that Miron arrived through a wormhole after Nale was killed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0915.html). The (Blood) Plasma TV was already destroyed by Sabine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0914.html) by that time, so it is unlikely she gave instructions to defeat someone that was not there.

[Sniffnoy]

From a story point of view, it's unlikely. Miron's return right now can only serve 3 purposes:

1) Draw the fight out, but Tarquin and company still lose. Not really any reason to do so as it just bloats the story.

Well, some might argue that this whole bit with Tarquin still showing up to fight after all this is essentially doing that. But I agree that it's unlikely. When Tarquin and Laurin teleported in, it was a shock; if Miron came back, it would just be ridiculous. In addition, Miron isn't Tarquin and doesn't have that same dedication, so demonstrating that he does would be out of place.

[rbetieh]

If any of Tarquins team return, they probably would do so with even more members of the team. Jacinda and Warrior-Guy are still warming the bench as it were. The only reason for them to appear is so that we can see the entire team go down in defeat.

[Chantelune]

I think Tarquin's too useful for that. Thinking that a specific action is an idiotic risk and participating in it reluctantly is a far cry from destroying 1/6 of the team that's making their scheme work.

On the other hand, Tarquin just showed that he was willing to jeopardize the big scheme for his own love of narratives, causing Malack's death, throwing away perfectly good troops just to try and kill a few guys for no other reason that motivating his son to come back and kill him at some point in the future. And then, instead of just give up, he decide to endanger the rest of his party in a wild goose chase.

After that, Miron and Laurin might reconsider Tarquin's utility versus his liability and decide it's best if he stay dead and they find some other replacement for their scheme.

That is, if V doesn't already disintigrate Tarquin once he's dead. The order know pretty well about resurection and by now, should suspect that if they give it a chance, Tarquin will just come back again to keep pestering them. They don't need the distraction, not when there's only one gate remaining and Xykon is already on the way to make himself cosy there.

Not saying Miron & co won't bring Tarquin back if they have the chance, but if they don't, that wouldn't surprise me either.

[SlashDash]

No, he won't. It takes an hour to refresh spells.


Even if it does, so what? He's still a vampire and drains energy by touch.
I'm pretty sure that on the ship he has enough shade to be able to fight without fear of Laurin dispelling his protection.

[Kish]

Even if it does, so what?
So, if he interrupts his spell preparation he won't have any spells at all tomorrow, and he seemed to think (however bizarrely) that he couldn't contribute to the fight without spells earlier.

[Chantelune]

So, if he interrupts his spell preparation he won't have any spells at all tomorrow, and he seemed to think (however bizarrely) that he couldn't contribute to the fight without spells earlier.

The party were in pretty bad shape, most of them being seriously wounded (Roy took a lot of punishement, Belkar still drained, etc...) and already drank all of their potions. As Durkon no longer convert his spells in healing, he'll be far less effective without refreshing his spell slots. Tarquin & co are probably too strong willed for him to dominate them and as he was working closely with a vampire, one could suppose that Tarquin protected himself against energy drain, just in case.

[Bulldog Psion]

On the other hand, Tarquin just showed that he was willing to jeopardize the big scheme for his own love of narratives, causing Malack's death, throwing away perfectly good troops just to try and kill a few guys for no other reason that motivating his son to come back and kill him at some point in the future. And then, instead of just give up, he decide to endanger the rest of his party in a wild goose chase.

After that, Miron and Laurin might reconsider Tarquin's utility versus his liability and decide it's best if he stay dead and they find some other replacement for their scheme.

That is, if V doesn't already disintigrate Tarquin once he's dead. The order know pretty well about resurection and by now, should suspect that if they give it a chance, Tarquin will just come back again to keep pestering them. They don't need the distraction, not when there's only one gate remaining and Xykon is already on the way to make himself cosy there.

Not saying Miron & co won't bring Tarquin back if they have the chance, but if they don't, that wouldn't surprise me either.

At most, though, I figure they'd abandon him to his fate. Returning specifically to disintegrate his corpse, as was suggested upthread, seems both bizarre and excessive.

[Jokunen]

I don't see much point in Miron coming back. Roy will eventually come back too, and without Laurin to nuke the whole party, we'll just see a repeat of "Miron tries to cast, Roy doesn't let him".

Not if he has the sense to prepare a bit before teleporting. Basic stuff such as Mirror Image, Fly, Invisibility and possibly Stone Skin would make things difficult for OOTS. Especially if he's going to take the shoulder pad guy with some buffs with him.

[Matt620]

I'd like to see him back, if for no other reason than that we can figure out if he's a wizard or a sorcerer, but I doubt it. At best, Miron would have come back, possibly, to get Laurin out of the picture. Tarquin's strong-arming was bound to bite him.

[FrankLuke]

We will be at the end of the comic.

Xykon and Redcloak will be defeated, the Snarl vanquished, both worlds saved. There will be a final joke, and the words "THE END" will splash across the page, with one final joke from Elan.

And there will be people on the forum predicting that Laurin and Miron are going to teleport back in and fight any second now.

And predicting that the illusion from the Draketooth dungeon will end any second now...

[b_jonas]

Of course. But it tells us that Teleport is one of Miron's spells.

More likely that Word of Recall is one of Miron's spells.

[Blisstake]

More likely that Word of Recall is one of Miron's spells.

Mm, no. Horrid Wilting is sorcerer/wizard only, while Word of Recall is cleric and druid only. It was a Contingency -> Teleport effect (and he explicitly said contingency, so there you go).

[rodneyAnonymous]

...and he seemed to think (however bizarrely) that he couldn't contribute to the fight without spells earlier.

I didn't read that. He only said "I'm out of spells" when they were talking about saving Roy, and was meleeing (eg the elemental) when range wasn't a problem.

[Cuthalion]

I think Tarquin's too useful for that. Thinking that a specific action is an idiotic risk and participating in it reluctantly is a far cry from destroying 1/6 of the team that's making their scheme work.

Well, Miron's a necromancer. :smallamused:

[137beth]

Mm, no. Horrid Wilting is sorcerer/wizard only, while Word of Recall is cleric and druid only. It was a Contingency -> Teleport effect (and he explicitly said contingency, so there you go).

Horrid Wilting is also granted by the Water domain, and a few others. He could be a cleric with the water domain and word of recall.

I actually think he could have lost track of where he was during the repeated wormholing. He might not even be able to teleport back to where the airship picked them up, let alone where it is now.

[Kish]

I didn't read that. He only said "I'm out of spells" when they were talking about saving Roy, and was meleeing (eg the elemental) when range wasn't a problem.
How did he participate in the fight, then?

It looked to me like he grabbed Laurin. Once. After she attacked him. Every other scene that depicted the Order fighting depicted Durkon either not at all, or...just standing there and staring.

[Keltest]

How did he participate in the fight, then?

It looked to me like he grabbed Laurin. Once. After she attacked him. Every other scene that depicted the Order fighting depicted Durkon either not at all, or...just standing there and staring.

For a vampire, that can be quite an effective action, especially against a bunch of weak minded goons.

[Kish]

Let me clarify that by "the fight," I meant the fight against the Laurinear Guild. Not the fight against the army, which I, perhaps uniquely, view as a separate fight slightly before the current one.

[Keltest]

Let me clarify that by "the fight," I meant the fight against the Laurinear Guild. Not the fight against the army, which I, perhaps uniquely, view as a separate fight slightly before the current one.

Ah. In that case yes, he mostly stood around and watched rather than going battle cleric. Admittedly, I would not want to risk something as important as that staff in a melee battle, and he seems to have lost his hammer.

[Blisstake]

Horrid Wilting is also granted by the Water domain, and a few others. He could be a cleric with the water domain and word of recall.


:smallannoyed:

Okay fine, Baleful Polymorph isn't on the cleric list.

[ShaneWegner]

You owe your sort-of friend one car washing. When he finally calls it in, a bunch of gang members pile on you to beat you within an inch of your life. Your robot helicopter comes and lets down a rope ladder, helping you narrowly escape.

Is your first thought "HOW CAN I GET BACK TO ALL THOSE GANG MEMBERS SO I CAN FINISH WASHING THAT CAR, WHICH ONE COULD SAY I TECHNICALLY ALREADY MADE A REASONABLE ATTEMPT TO DO?"

PS- also you are greedy and not found of arrows being shot into you and care mostly about DEBTS, not actually your sort-of friend's cause, which to be fair is pretty whack because he apparently wants to hurt/kill his other son he hasn't killed today, and his son's friends because he thinks life is some big on-stage production which he is the leading character of or something? YYyyyyeaah look I tried to wash that car bro, I really did. If you want, you can say I still owe you one car. Or maybe half a car, because I tried.

I doubt Miron's coming back. I doubt he's getting Jacinda and Shoulderpads, because they probably had plans today besides washing cars too and they don't even owe a car wash coupon.

[Kish]

:smallannoyed:

Okay fine, Baleful Polymorph isn't on the cleric list.
Nor is Contingency, for that matter.

You owe your sort-of friend one car washing. When he finally calls it in, a bunch of gang members pile on you to beat you within an inch of your life. Your robot helicopter comes and lets down a rope ladder, helping you narrowly escape.

Is your first thought "HOW CAN I GET BACK TO ALL THOSE GANG MEMBERS SO I CAN FINISH WASHING THAT CAR, WHICH ONE COULD SAY I TECHNICALLY ALREADY MADE A REASONABLE ATTEMPT TO DO?"

PS- also you are greedy and not found of arrows being shot into you and care mostly about DEBTS, not actually your sort-of friend's cause, which to be fair is pretty whack because he apparently wants to hurt/kill his other son he hasn't killed today, and his son's friends because he thinks life is some big on-stage production which he is the leading character of or something? YYyyyyeaah look I tried to wash that car bro, I really did. If you want, you can say I still owe you one car. Or maybe half a car, because I tried.

I doubt Miron's coming back. I doubt he's getting Jacinda and Shoulderpads, because they probably had plans today besides washing cars too and they don't even owe a car wash coupon.
I just wanted to say this is hilarious.