[3.5] Knowledge Devotion focused Warrior

[A.A.King]

Not talking about the class Warrior, just the concept. What would it take for a Cloistered Cleric to become good at melee if based around Knowledge Devotion. How much resources would it take, what level would it really work, how good could it become?

I was thinking about making a very knowledgeable kind of character, and I'm wondering just how good Knowledge Devotion is as a basis. Not as an extra on an already decent fighter (with good strength), but on a more stereotypical thinking man (low strength, low dexterity).

[Urpriest]

Are you willing to leverage other buffs as well? Cloistered Cleric can pile up a goodly number of buffs, especially with Divine Metamagic and Persistent Spell, and with those buffs they can be an equal to any warrior-type. But Knowledge Devotion alone isn't going to compensate for both low-Str and low-BAB. It only caps at +5 after all!

[A.A.King]

In general I'm fine with other buff spells (not so much with Persistent Spell though, don't really like those kind of builds). I realize for example that from level 7 onward Divine Might pretty much becomes mandatory.

I'm just wondering how much investment it needs, that includes which spells, feats and skills (and the higher levels which magic items). How much investment, and which investment is needed to make an intelligent guy with average strength a decent combatant.

[Urpriest]

In general I'm fine with other buff spells (not so much with Persistent Spell though, don't really like those kind of builds). I realize for example that from level 7 onward Divine Might pretty much becomes mandatory.

I'm just wondering how much investment it needs, that includes which spells, feats and skills (and the higher levels which magic items). How much investment, and which investment is needed to make an intelligent guy with average strength a decent combatant.

Hmm alright.

Just trying to gauge your preferred optimization level here, what about Divine Metamagic for Quicken Spell? Less broken than Persist, lighter use of Turn Undead attempts, still allows you to get two buffs out, or get one buff and charge into the fray.

Also, what would you be content with in the line of "average strength"? I could see 14 being fine for a starting Str score for this sort of character, but I probably wouldn't go much lower than that.

[Phelix-Mu]

Knowledge Devotion fits on a number of builds, not just Cloistered Cleric. Factotum and an Int-based monk/wiz are two of my favorite builds, but good results can also be had with some stranger things like DFA (especially if you can talk a DM into a DFA-improving version of one of the theurge classes), something using Craven and other damage adders to get as much extra damage as possible (Knowledge Devotion gets crammed into some archery builds).

If you are going to go cleric, consider the classic Zen Archery route. This keeps you back from the front lines, and allows some battlefield mobility to allow for positions in support of downed allies or to implement some battlefield control. Maybe throw in some Travel Devotion for free movement. Archery often specializes in many attacks, which means the bonus damage from Knowledge Devotion will be put to good use

An interesting route might be to use the divine/incarnum PrC as a concept. Incarnum is highly flexible, and will nicely augment combat roles as well as utility stuff out of combat. There is also an archery concept somewhere in incarnum, and definitely stuff to boost skills if you are looking for that. Totemist can definitely rock melee, and stacking natural attacks is a great way to get mileage out of Knowledge Devotion.

[Gnome Alone]

Duskblade makes a pretty decent Knowledge Devotee as well: all Knowledges as class skills, and strictly speaking doesn't absolutely need STR because they can rely on Arcane Channeling for damage. I'm sure the Cloistered Cleric route is more versatile though.

[A.A.King]

The strength I was thinking of would probably be 10. Idea right now is to go Gnome and take Trivial Knowledge, so I don't want to put too much points in strength. I'm just really wondering how good a pure learned man can be in combat and how many skills points you would need to invest for Knowledge Devotion to be useful.

[Juntao112]

In general I'm fine with other buff spells (not so much with Persistent Spell though, don't really like those kind of builds). I realize for example that from level 7 onward Divine Might pretty much becomes mandatory.

I'm just wondering how much investment it needs, that includes which spells, feats and skills (and the higher levels which magic items). How much investment, and which investment is needed to make an intelligent guy with average strength a decent combatant.

Guidance of the Avatar.

[Phelix-Mu]

Draconic Knowledge and more draconic feats are good for adding to Knowledge skills.

Collector of Stories skill trick is the best, cheapest way to add to Knowledge Devotions rolls (note that it can only add the +5 once per encounter).

There's also a DFA invocation that adds +6 to all Knowledge checks and some other stuff. Very nifty.

In general, focus on local, arcane, and nature, and a point in dungeoneering and religion. More in religion and dungeoneering based on the enemies the DM is using, if you can tell.

Bonuses will be much more useful than the skill points in the end, though.