Action Economy Question?

[Silvanoshei]

This is for 3.5, not 3.5e.

Could you do a Normal Action, Move Action, Swift Action, and Free Action all in one turn?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm not sure what you mean by "this is for 3.5, not 3.5e," as they're the same thing, but... assuming "normal action" means standard action, the answer is yes. Each turn, you get one full-round action or one standard and one move action, along with one swift action and infinite free actions.

[Alleran]

It also bears mentioning that while free actions are infinite in theory, in practise you get only as many of them as you can fit in before the GM loses their patience.

[Urpriest]

The answer is no. "Normal Action" is not a thing in 3.5, or whichever edition you meant to type instead of 3.5e. You can only take types of actions that exist.

[Garagos]

My group tends to handle the number of free actions you can have by limiting them to your character's Dex Mod. Even that seems too high sometimes, depending on how high someone's Dex is, but for most characters it works as a decent rule of thumb.

[Silvanoshei]

I'm not sure what you mean by "this is for 3.5, not 3.5e," as they're the same thing, but... assuming "normal action" means standard action, the answer is yes. Each turn, you get one full-round action or one standard and one move action, along with one swift action and infinite free actions.

Yeah, standard action. They are not the same thing btw, 3.5 and 3.5 errata are different, because one has changes some do not like, and like the stuff printed in the books.

So... if that's the case, and you take Arcane Spellsurge, you could cast 2 standard (standard to swift, and swift is swift) and then cast a Quickened free action spell?

[Hamste]

The e stands for edition I think.

[Silvanoshei]

So how do you tell the two apart? 3.5 core and 3.5 errata? 3.5c and 3.5e lol?

It's stupid things like this that piss me off about the errata version.


Shapechange
Player's Handbook, page 277
Second sentence of spell description is in error.
Change “more than twice your caster level in Hit Dice”
to “more than your caster level in Hit Dice.” Also,
change “50” to “25”

[Aasimar]

So basically, you're referring to a personal gripe and pretending youre not the only person to make this distinction?

[Urpriest]

Yeah, standard action. They are not the same thing btw, 3.5 and 3.5 errata are different, because one has changes some do not like, and like the stuff printed in the books.

Playing "without errata" isn't a thing, so it doesn't have an abbreviation. It's basically intentionally playing with typos. The whole concept of errata is that it was things that the original books got wrong, if it wasn't it wouldn't be errata.

[Aasimar]

3.5 core is the core set of Players guide, monster manual and dungeon masters guide, for D&D 3.5 edition.

Playing specifically without errata isn't a thing. Some people do because they don't know there is errata, some people play with errata but roll-back an occasional thing they dislike as a house rule.

But errata isn't another version, it's an update to the game to further clarify intent of design and to fix mistakes.

Limiting shapechange do your HD rather than double your HD seems like a rather minimal fix to a severely broken spell.

[Grod_The_Giant]

They are not the same thing btw, 3.5 and 3.5 errata are different, because one has changes some do not like, and like the stuff printed in the books.
I have never heard that distinction before. "3.5e" is typically used to refer to 3.5 edition.


So... if that's the case, and you take Arcane Spellsurge, you could cast 2 standard (standard to swift, and swift is swift) and then cast a Quickened free action spell?
No, because you can only take one swift action per turn-- the spell description specifically calls this out. You could cast a typically-full-round spell and a typically-standard-action spell, though.

[Slipperychicken]

3.5e just stands for "3.5 edition", much like 2e stands for "second edition", 3e stands for "third edition", 4e for "fourth edition", and so on.

In forum jargon, there isn't a difference between saying 3.5 and 3.5e.


This is for 3.5, not 3.5e.

Could you do a Normal Standard Action, Move Action, Swift Action, and lots of Free Actions all in one turn?

Fixed that for you.


Remember:
You can take an Immediate action outside your turn, which eats your next round's Swift action. These are different from Swift actions because you can use them outside of your turn.

A "Full-Round Action" takes only a Standard action + Move action, leaving your swift and free actions unused. A full-attack costs a full-round action, as do many spells.

A spell which has a casting time of "1 Round" (such as Summon Monster) takes all your actions and comes into effect at the start of your next turn. This is different from full-round actions.

[Greenish]

If there's errata that annoys you (*cough*scout*cough*), well, you do the same thing as when there's something in the rest of the rules that annoys you (houserule, pretend it's not RAW, ignore its existence, grit your teeth and bear it, whatever floats your boat).

[Phelix-Mu]

If there's errata that annoys you (*cough*scout*cough*), well, you do the same thing as when there's something in the rest of the rules that annoys you (houserule, pretend it's not RAW, ignore its existence, grit your teeth and bear it, whatever floats your boat).

...get on an internet forum and have a nice rant...

[cakellene]

...get on an internet forum and have a nice rant...

That's the more entertaining option for the rest of us.

[nedz]

So how do you tell the two apart? 3.5 core and 3.5 errata? 3.5c and 3.5e lol?

It's stupid things like this that piss me off about the errata version.

What ? You're complaining that they nerfed Shapechange ? The erratad version is still broken, you just have to work a little bit harder.

You do know that it is possible to optimise Caster Level way above your HD ?

[Silvanoshei]

What ? You're complaining that they nerfed Shapechange ? The erratad version is still broken, you just have to work a little bit harder.

You do know that it is possible to optimise Caster Level way above your HD ?

It's a 9th level spell that's broke, or rather, didn't need changed in the first place, and yes it is still broken, so what is the point of even bothering with an errata'd version. That's why we don't play pathfinder either, they don't fix the balance anyway, so it's pointless to waste money / time on other books or looking up errata'd stuff. Just stick to 3.5, it's fun and every class has it's moment. Wizard apparently has her/his with polymorph and shapechange, so be it, like death, it happens and you need to let it lol. :smallannoyed:

[lsfreak]

You do know that it is possible to optimise Caster Level way above your HD ?

To whit, by the time Shapechange is on the table, you really have no excuse not to have at least HD+5 in Core-only and HD+7 with MIC and SPC. With a little more effort and a more specific build, HD+12 or HD+14 isn't difficult. Bards alone can provide 5 extra levels on top of this. And if you only need it on one spell and have a high tolerance for cheese, it goes a loooot higher.

Of course none of that helps overcome the HD25 cap on shapechange. But even with that, shapechange is ban-worthy in brokenness.

[Totema]

"Normal action" is a 3.0 term. It got replaced with "standard action" when 3.5 was published.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It's a 9th level spell that's broke, or rather, didn't need changed in the first place, and yes it is still broken, so what is the point of even bothering with an errata'd version.
It's better than nothing. It's also a lot more symmetrical with other polymorphing spells that are based on (caster/character) level, rather than level*2, so there's an element of consistency.