What are V's options with the Ioun Stone?

[ThisIsNotDan]

Could someone please fill me in on what can be done with the Order's new ioun stone? I understand that it's orange, which means it grants its user an extra class level, but not extra spells. But can anyone in the Order use it like that? We've only ever seen psionics using ioun stones, and there is scant little about them that I can find on d20srd.org. Can we reasonably expect that V will have a little orange rock orbiting his head for a while?

Someone also mentioned using it in such a way that it destroys V's ability to ever cast spells again. What's up with that? Does the stone allow for some kind of awesome one-time-use attack like that? What are all the options the Order has to use this stone?

[johnbragg]

Could someone please fill me in on what can be done with the Order's new ioun stone? I understand that it's orange, which means it grants its user an extra class level, but not extra spells. But can anyone in the Order use it like that? We've only ever seen psionics using ioun stones, and there is scant little about them that I can find on d20srd.org. Can we reasonably expect that V will have a little orange rock orbiting his head for a while?

If this were a D&D game, V would absolutely add "Orange Ioun Stone, +1 Caster Level" to her character sheet.

But as this is a story where character development is an issue, we could see Blackwing keep his(?) shiny. There are some caster-level-linked abilities that a wizard can use with or through a familiar (share buffs with the familiar, use the familiar to deliver touch spells) and I suppose you could houserule that for the purposes of those spells as they apply to or through Blackwing, the CL is boosted, but it's pretty trivial.


Someone also mentioned using it in such a way that it destroys V's ability to ever cast spells again. What's up with that? Does the stone allow for some kind of awesome one-time-use attack like that? What are all the options the Order has to use this stone?

It's not a power of the stone, it's a misunderstanding of what CL +1 means. The idea was that CL +1 meant that V would get a 9th level spell. The 9th level spell in question, Mordenkainen's Mage's Disjunction, breaks all magical effects in its area. The spell description specifies that MD has a certain chance to destroy an artifact--like Redcloak's Crimson Mantle--at the cost of permanently losing all spellcasting ability.

But the ioun stone doesn't give you extra spells, it just applies to things like caster level checks and how-many-dice-of-damage and spell durations and whatnot.

[KillianHawkeye]

The stone does not grant an extra class level, merely a +1 bonus to caster level. All it does is affect the power/range/duration of V's existing spells.

It has no effect on non-spellcasters like Roy/Haley/Belkar.

[Kareasint]

Could someone please fill me in on what can be done with the Order's new ioun stone? I understand that it's orange, which means it grants its user an extra class level, but not extra spells. But can anyone in the Order use it like that? We've only ever seen psionics using ioun stones, and there is scant little about them that I can find on d20srd.org. Can we reasonably expect that V will have a little orange rock orbiting his head for a while?

Someone also mentioned using it in such a way that it destroys V's ability to ever cast spells again. What's up with that? Does the stone allow for some kind of awesome one-time-use attack like that? What are all the options the Order has to use this stone?

According to SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#iounStones), the stone grants +1 caster level which is used to determine spell effects like Range, Area of Effect, Save DC, Damage, etc. Durkon or V would have slightly more powerful spells as a result. An Evoker like V would be a better option here.

[KillianHawkeye]

According to SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#iounStones), the stone grants +1 caster level which is used to determine spell effects like Range, Area of Effect, Save DC, Damage, etc. Durkon or V would have slightly more powerful spells as a result. An Evoker like V would be a better option here.

Save DC is NOT affected by caster level, only by spell level and primary ability score (plus miscellaneous bonuses).

[Gnome Alone]

V's options
1. Use it
2. Let Blackwing keep it
3. Give it to Durkon
4. Eat it

Sky's the limit, y'know?

[KillianHawkeye]

V's options
1. Use it
2. Let Blackwing keep it
3. Give it to Durkon
4. Eat it

Sky's the limit, y'know?

5. Sell it for real cash money $$$ :smallbiggrin:

[rodneyAnonymous]

Also, Durkon could use it.

[SowZ]

It's possible V could keep it in his inventory stored somewhere and still get the bonus so that Rich doesn't have to draw an orange ball around V's head all the time. It probably wouldn't take much time to draw, but making it look good when there is only one might be a bit of an artistic challenge. I'm not an illustrator, though, maybe not.

[rodneyAnonymous]

It's possible V could keep it in his inventory stored somewhere and still get the bonus so that Rich doesn't have to draw an orange ball around V's head all the time. It probably wouldn't take much time to draw, but making it look good when there is only one might be a bit of an artistic challenge. I'm not an illustrator, though, maybe not.

No, magic items with an "always on" effect usually have to be worn to receive the bonus.

[wyrmhole]

No, magic items with an "always on" effect usually have to be worn to receive the bonus.

Whether it's allowed or not, an Ioun Stone that isn't circling the caster's head like a tiny festively colored moon just isn't right.

[Keltest]

Whether it's allowed or not, an Ioun Stone that isn't circling the caster's head like a tiny festively colored moon just isn't right.

They've always been one of my favorite magic items that are disproportionately rare compared to other magic items of similar power.

[SowZ]

No, magic items with an "always on" effect usually have to be worn to receive the bonus.

So, say, tied to a belt or something wouldn't count as worn?

[Gnome Alone]

So, say, tied to a belt or something wouldn't count as worn?

Ehhhhhhh... pretty sure they're powered by being annoying. If it's not floating around getting in your eyes and tempting people to steal it, it's just not an ioun stone.

[rodneyAnonymous]

So, say, tied to a belt or something wouldn't count as worn?

Not unless tying a pair of gloves to your belt also counts as "wearing them".

[Chantelune]

Well, first of all : will Blackwing give up his brand new shiny bauble that he snatched at the price of clawing at Laurin's face ?

Second, will Blackwing then resist the urge to catch it again if it keep hovering around V's head ? After all, Blackwing is rather weak against shiny baubles, especially when they dangle right in front of him. :smallbiggrin:

[The Pilgrim]

Elan could also use it.

And Belkar, if he had enough Wisdom to cast Ranger spells.

However, V is by far the one that can make the best use of it.

[SowZ]

Not unless tying a pair of gloves to your belt also counts as "wearing them".

I wouldn't think it possible if it wasn't slotless, of course.

[KillianHawkeye]

I wouldn't think it possible if it wasn't slotless, of course.

I thought it used the "floating around your head" slot? LOL :smallamused::smallbiggrin:

[wyrmhole]

Well, first of all : will Blackwing give up his brand new shiny bauble that he snatched at the price of clawing at Laurin's face ?

Second, will Blackwing then resist the urge to catch it again if it keep hovering around V's head ? After all, Blackwing is rather weak against shiny baubles, especially when they dangle right in front of him. :smallbiggrin:

Thus setting up V's next moral delimna: Will she use the stone to gain the benefit of an extra caster level as it respects explosion size and the social situations it can resolve, at the expense of losing her companion Blackwing paralysed by it's bright shiny baubleness? Only time will tell!

Dun dun dun!

[Deliverance]

So, say, tied to a belt or something wouldn't count as worn?
No. If it isn't floating near the owner, it isn't active. Tying an Ioun stone to your belt? Jack Vance would seriously disapprove of such improper handling.

Regarding V, the options would be:
Ask for it.
Take it by force/bullying.
Respect Blackwing's as the legitimate owner by virtue of theft and go through the rest of the comic with gnashed teeth.

In case of #2, an awesome but impractical followup would be for Blackwing to spend the rest of the comic orbiting V's head in an attempt to catch up with the Ioun stone.

[Porthos]

I've noticed a lot of people saying that V might show character growth by letting Blackwing keep it (since he took the, ahem, initiative to get the stone in the first place).

I haven't seen many people saying that BLACKWING might show character growth by giving it to Vaarsuvius. Be a sign of his growth that he is no longer governed by his base desires yadda yadda yadda. :smalltongue:

[Anteros]

Blackwing just likes it because it's a bauble. He'd be just as happy with any other bauble V traded him for it.

[Killer Angel]

Ehhhhhhh... pretty sure they're powered by being annoying. If it's not floating around getting in your eyes and tempting people to steal it, it's just not an ioun stone.

I wonder if a sufficiently large number of ioun stones, can give you cover... :smalltongue:

[JHShadon]

All Blackwing would want to do is look at it, which he can do while it's orbiting V's head.

[Ramien]

I wonder if a sufficiently large number of ioun stones, can give you cover... :smalltongue:

A sufficiently large number of ioun stones will, in fact, count as a nonmagical helmet for purposes of protection. :smalltongue:

[BeerMug Paladin]

Give it to Blackwing as a pretty bauble to look at. Blackwing really did earn it.

I guess since we're discussing options, V could also use the spell 'fling' to throw it at someone for a pebble-sized amount of damage.

[DaggerPen]

If V can share spells with Blackwing, Blackwing being V's familiar, would V get any bonuses should Blackwing equip the ioun stone? Because the whole "just waiting for someone to steal it in combat" downside of iouns stones would be rather minimized if Blackwing were to equip it and hover above V's head during the fight, wouldn't it?

[Lexible]

Durkon or V would have slightly more powerful spells as a result.

Or Elan! :smallwink:

[137beth]

No, magic items with an "always on" effect usually have to be worn to receive the bonus.

Maybe V will find a Wayfinder. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/wayfinder-standard)

[Alex Warlorn]

No, magic items with an "always on" effect usually have to be worn to receive the bonus.

A house rule that Blackwing can carry it for V and still gain the bonus IMHO is clever and not a game breaker this late into the campaign.

[SowZ]

A house rule that Blackwing can carry it for V and still gain the bonus IMHO is clever and not a game breaker this late into the campaign.

Of course, game breaking and place in the campaign is irrelevant. There's no Adam, just laws of the universe long put into place by the gods.

[zimmerwald1915]

Maybe V will find a Wayfinder. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/wayfinder-standard)
Heck, if we're bringing Pathfinder into this, V could embed the ioun stone in his flesh (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun-stones). Perhaps for a nice, mystical "third eye" look.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Heck, if we're bringing Pathfinder into this, V could embed the ioun stone in his flesh (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun-stones). Perhaps for a nice, mystical "third eye" look.

Ooooh, neat idea, Zimmer!

[WindStruck]

Give it to Haley to boost her sneak attack level! trolololo :smalltongue:

No actaully, now that I'm seriously thinking of this, Elan can benefit from those same bonuses, or maybe even Belkar... except his wis is so low he can't cast any ranger spells anyway...

[Alex Warlorn]

Of course, game breaking and place in the campaign is irrelevant. There's no Adam, just laws of the universe long put into place by the gods.

There are rules that say 'DM's choice' so if the rules are being followed, there must be a DM, but that's off topic I think.

[SowZ]

There are rules that say 'DM's choice' so if the rules are being followed, there must be a DM, but that's off topic I think.

There is objectively not a DM. The origin of the rules is presumably the gods, so they probably decided a ruling on those when they created the laws of physics.

[Flame of Anor]

There are rules that say 'DM's choice' so if the rules are being followed, there must be a DM, but that's off topic I think.

The rules aren't being followed exactly (see: carrying capacity of flying creatures, etc.). The laws of this universe are nearly the same as the rules of 3.5 D&D, that's all.

[Amphiox]

Would it be possible for V to use the Ioun Stone, while still letting it be held/kept by Blackwing, seeing as Blackwing is V's familiar?

[zimmerwald1915]

Would it be possible for V to use the Ioun Stone, while still letting it be held/kept by Blackwing, seeing as Blackwing is V's familiar?
Not unless Rich makes a special dispensation. Whatever the link between caster and familiar, the familiar is still a separate creature, and items normally affect it as such.

[veti]

However, V is by far the one that can make the best use of it.

Not all that much, really.

+1 to caster level is of limited use to V. Her favourite direct-damage spell is Cone of Cold - which caps at 15d6, and she's already (at least) 15th level, so it's irrelevant there. Stoneskin, Prot from Energy... basically, most of these numbers are already maxed out.

OK, there are a few exceptions (Chain Lightning, Delayed Blast Fireball), but they're very limited.

In terms of her favourite spells, we're talking about a marginally-increased duration for 'Fly'. Not exactly game-changing.

[b_jonas]

Instead of the stone circling Blackwing's head, or the stone circling V's head and Blackwing chasing it, could Blackwing hold the stone in his claws and circle V's head, giving V the bonus that way?

[zimmerwald1915]

Her favourite direct-damage spell is Cone of Cold
What? She's used cone of cold a grand total of twice in almost a thousand strips. Before this very strip, she had used it exactly once, in the Dungeon of Dorukan. Her favorite direct damage spell is much more likely one of disintegrate, fireball or lightning bolt. Judging solely by the spells she's cast today, I'd err on the side of lightning bolt, but that choice was probably influenced by the idea that she'd be casting down long, straight corridors rather than by her favoring the spell for aesthetic reasons. Judging by the whole comic, I'd say she favors disintegrate, in that she always seems to have one prepared.

Among those spells, both fireball and lightning bolt cap at 10d6, but disintegrate caps at 40d6 (2d6/caster level).


In terms of her favourite spells, we're talking about a marginally-increased duration for 'Fly'. Not exactly game-changing.
Caster level impacts more than spell duration and damage dice. Significantly, it impacts chance to penetrate spell resistance, something V has historically struggled with. It also impacts chance to dispel or counterspell other casters' magic, something V is very fond of. It also impacts the number of hit dice one can banish with the banishment spell, which V has employed in the past and which would be quite efficacious against Redcloak's by-now established tactic of summoning minions.

Of course, Durkon could benefit from being able to dispel and banish outsiders better (he doesn't seem to counterspell much, odd considering that it would fit his reactive personality). But Durkon already got a major magic item this arc. And Elan could benefit somewhat from the extra duration on his illusions, but I suspect, given the destruction of his rapier, he's going to get something else he can put to better use shortly.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It's possible V could keep it in his inventory stored somewhere and still get the bonus so that Rich doesn't have to draw an orange ball around V's head all the time. It probably wouldn't take much time to draw, but making it look good when there is only one might be a bit of an artistic challenge. I'm not an illustrator, though, maybe not.

There's an ioun stone necklace that lets you put a single ioun stone in the setting, so you get the benefit of the stone, you lose the necklace slot because you're wearing it there, but no one can just snatch it from around your head (a la Blackwing). Can't remember which issue of Dragon that was in.

[SowZ]

What? She's used cone of cold a grand total of twice in almost a thousand strips. Before this very strip, she had used it exactly once, in the Dungeon of Dorukan. Her favorite direct damage spell is much more likely one of disintegrate, fireball or lightning bolt. Judging solely by the spells she's cast today, I'd err on the side of lightning bolt, but that choice was probably influenced by the idea that she'd be casting down long, straight corridors rather than by her favoring the spell for aesthetic reasons. Judging by the whole comic, I'd say she favors disintegrate, in that she always seems to have one prepared.

Among those spells, both fireball and lightning bolt cap at 10d6, but disintegrate caps at 40d6 (2d6/caster level).


Caster level impacts more than spell duration and damage dice. Significantly, it impacts chance to penetrate spell resistance, something V has historically struggled with. It also impacts chance to dispel or counterspell other casters' magic, something V is very fond of. It also impacts the number of hit dice one can banish with the banishment spell, which V has employed in the past and which would be quite efficacious against Redcloak's by-now established tactic of summoning minions.

Of course, Durkon could benefit from being able to dispel and banish outsiders better (he doesn't seem to counterspell much, odd considering that it would fit his reactive personality). But Durkon already got a major magic item this arc. And Elan could benefit somewhat from the extra duration on his illusions, but I suspect, given the destruction of his rapier, he's going to get something else he can put to better use shortly.

We can't forget explosive runes if listing Vs favorite spells, though that isn't a direct blasty spell.

[zimmerwald1915]

We can't forget explosive runes if listing Vs favorite spells, though that isn't a direct blasty spell.
True enough. Then again, explosive runes' damage and duration aren't affected by caster level at all; just its chance to penetrate spell resistance.

[orrion]

Not all that much, really.

+1 to caster level is of limited use to V. Her favourite direct-damage spell is Cone of Cold - which caps at 15d6, and she's already (at least) 15th level, so it's irrelevant there. Stoneskin, Prot from Energy... basically, most of these numbers are already maxed out.

OK, there are a few exceptions (Chain Lightning, Delayed Blast Fireball), but they're very limited.

In terms of her favourite spells, we're talking about a marginally-increased duration for 'Fly'. Not exactly game-changing.

Cone of Cold? What comic are you reading?

+1CL affects damage spells, spell resistance, and dispel checks.

For damage spells we've seen, it would mainly affect Disintegrate and Chain Lightning, but there's several others it could affect that V could cast in the future (Polar Ray for example, or Sunburst used against undead). Disintegrate would definitely quality one of V's favorite spells.

V has run into spell resistance (Zz'dtri, death knight) and uses Dispel mechanics frequently, so the extra caster level is very useful. I'd say that or the scarlet/blue (+2 int) stones are the only ones V would want, anyway.

[Heksefatter]

The Order can give it to Banjo. We already know that Banjo can smite people for no effect, meaning that Banjo is a level 0 deity, able to use the divine equivalent of cantrips. Giving the stone to Banjo will empower Banjo's smiting to that of a level 1 deity, ie. a demigod.

The Order will easily pwn Tarquin then and afterwards go do the same to Xykon.

[Uniclonus]

I guess since we're discussing options, V could also use the spell 'fling' to throw it at someone for a pebble-sized amount of damage.
I now know how someone later is going to be embarrassingly or unexpectedly defeated:
Belkar will snatch the floating Ioun Stone and proceed to use Halfling Pebble Throw Attack for a surprise kill, perhaps when he's seemingly incapacitated.
Don't tell me Belkar can't kill someone with a tiny stone. Do you know how many bonuses he could have with a thrown rock? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0745.html)

[BeerMug Paladin]

I now know how someone later is going to be embarrassingly or unexpectedly defeated:
Belkar will snatch the floating Ioun Stone and proceed to use Halfling Pebble Throw Attack for a surprise kill, perhaps when he's seemingly incapacitated.
Don't tell me Belkar can't kill someone with a tiny stone. Do you know how many bonuses he could have with a thrown rock? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0745.html)

I was thinking of that as well, but I didn't think to include it as an option because why would V give that to Belkar at all?

[Keltest]

I was thinking of that as well, but I didn't think to include it as an option because why would V give that to Belkar at all?

Specifically to infuriate him I suppose. Do you know how annoying that would get if you cant even use it?

[zimmerwald1915]

I was thinking of that as well, but I didn't think to include it as an option because why would V give that to Belkar at all?
Who said anything about "giving"? The ioun stone orbits the user's head and, as this very strip demonstrates, can be snatched by anyone willing to spend an action doing so.

[Trillium]

I now know how someone later is going to be embarrassingly or unexpectedly defeated:
Belkar will snatch the floating Ioun Stone and proceed to use Halfling Pebble Throw Attack for a surprise kill, perhaps when he's seemingly incapacitated.
Don't tell me Belkar can't kill someone with a tiny stone. Do you know how many bonuses he could have with a thrown rock? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0745.html)

:belkar: "Snatch!"
:vaarsuvius: "My stone!"
:belkar: "Empowered Halfling Stone Throw of Terrible Doom!"
:xykon: "Hah! Caught!"
:vaarsuvius::belkar: "...."
:xykon: "Where's your god now?"

[martianmister]

V is not just part camel, she is also part penguin, and Blackwing is related to penguins, soooo... (http://www.perfectpenguinpebbles.com/faq.html)

[Flame of Anor]

V is not just part camel, she is also part penguin, and Blackwing is related to penguins, soooo... (http://www.perfectpenguinpebbles.com/faq.html)

Is this real? If so... :smallsigh:

[orrion]

Is this real? If so... :smallsigh:

Heh. The camel remark is from Elan misinterpreting V way back in the early strips. Don't know where the penguin part is from.

[Flame of Anor]

Heh. The camel remark is from Elan misinterpreting V way back in the early strips. Don't know where the penguin part is from.

I remember the camel part, I was just facepalming at the website linked.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Who said anything about "giving"? The ioun stone orbits the user's head and, as this very strip demonstrates, can be snatched by anyone willing to spend an action doing so.
Can Belkar reach V's head?

[Trillium]

Can Belkar reach V's head?

Hafling Rage Jumping Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0176.html)

[Kish]

Can Belkar reach V's head?
Even without the Ring of Jumping.

[davidbofinger]

V's options
1. Use it
2. Let Blackwing keep it
3. Give it to Durkon
4. Eat it



5. Sell it for real cash money $$$ :smallbiggrin:

6. Give it back to Laurin in return for a favour.