Gestalt Sha'ir//???

[Grod_The_Giant]

I maybe be playing a solo game or two-- two characters, 3.5, gestalt rules, level 6, all books, LA buyoff, and my minor tweaks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275054) homebrew. I've been really enjoying the look of the Sha'ir-- it's a face! And a T1! And has great flavor!-- but I'm not sure what to put on the other side. A Battle Dancer dip might be good, but that's pretty much a one-level thing. What would you guys suggest? Binder? Crusader? Incarnate? Cloistered Cleric?

[Hangwind]

CHA-based Psion at level 6 if you are using your own fixes.

[Larkas]

Ehhh... Paladin? Oracle?

[Fouredged Sword]

Marshal 2 (Cha to Cha)/ Paladin 3 (Cha to saves) / Monk 1 (pick up ascetic mage for Cha to AC)

[Jack_Simth]

Marshal 2 (Cha to Cha)/ Paladin 3 (Cha to saves) / Monk 1 (pick up ascetic mage for Cha to AC)
... why Paladin-3? Marshall-2/Paladin-2/Monk-2 (Cha to saves, Evasion) or (if you're OK with non-good) Marshall-2/Hexblade-3 (Cha to saves vs spells and spell-likes, Metle)/Monk-1.

However, if the XP penalty for multiclassing is in play, that really should be Marshall-2/Paladin-2/Monk-2.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I guess I should have clarified-- this isn't that nice a group. Evil is OK, Exalted is not.


CHA-based Psion at level 6 if you are using your own fixes.
Aren't you not supposed to mix two "active" classes in gestalt? And have a decent chassis?

[Jack_Simth]

I guess I should have clarified-- this isn't that nice a group. Evil is OK, Exalted is not.


Aren't you not supposed to mix two "active" classes in gestalt? And have a decent chassis?
Under normal circumstances, this is true. However, Psion lets you break the action economy into little itty bitty pieces... eventually. Factotum is pretty good at it too.

[DMVerdandi]

How about a marshal?
The sha'ir has a whole theme of being able to bind creatures to his will, how about auras to go with the whole theme of charismatic power?
It buffs your whole group, jinn included.

Or maybe a dragonfire adept?
Continue along the elemental path with some breath weapons and invocations?

Sha'ir IS tier one, so even though it has an... interesting casting mechanic, you will still have that much power, so it frees up some space for one of the more flavorful tier 3 classes.

Suggestions? Find a few ways to boost that diplomacy score up.
It's already CHA based, but a flavorful way to get more of a bonus would be to take the Item familiar feat. Make it into a ring (No disarming, and also goes with the original Aladdin story (One of the jinn was summoned through a ring)

Skill focus is also good.

[Donox]

Hexblade 4/Paladin of Tyranny 2. You get Cha to saves against spells twice, solid debuffing options (take Dark Companion ACF), it boosts your BAB so improved familiar becomes worthwhile, and good fort saves to complement the Sha'ir's good will.

See if you can this hexblade fix. Its quasi-officials (its from the creator of the hexblade class)
The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life. As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually work in play. Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed. If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes:
Good Fortitude save
Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day
Curse ability usable as a swift action
Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw
Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler
At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18.

As for further advancement...

Grab level 4 of paladin for turning attempts. Use this to fuel divine feats. Be an illuminian with the Naenhoon (sp?) sigil to get free metamagic.

Alternately be a changeling and go into warshaper for all of the awesome goodies that it gives you.

[Threadnaught]

Oh Grod, how could you? I wanted to make a Gestalt thread, but with the amount that have been floating around recently, I've been waiting for them to sort of, go away.


I'd probably go for something that gets more Skillpoints. Like Rogue or Factotum.
Maybe something that receives more benefits from a high Cha. Like Sorcerer.

Bard is a good Class to Gestalt with after the 1 level dip in Battledancer, right? So far Bard squeezes out a slightly larger HD than it normally does and if I'm not interpreting your post wrong, you made it able to use all ACFs at once? Please clarify.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Bard is a good Class to Gestalt with after the 1 level dip in Battledancer, right? So far Bard squeezes out a slightly larger HD than it normally does and if I'm not interpreting your post wrong, you made it able to use all ACFs at once? Please clarify.
Bard does have possibilities, yeah. Hadn't really thought of that; he gets me skills, a bigger HD, Bardic Knack...

("Be sure to allow access to the whole range of ACFs" doesn't mean to break the normal ACF rules, it's just a reminder that the class really needs the splatbook support to be anything but a wimpy sorcerer)

[Waker]

Bard or Crusader are some of the better choices in my opinion. Both would give you more HP, saves, BAB and skills. Bard spells and Maneuvers would also give you options if you happened to find yourself in a situation where you lack a specific spell (for example taking D. Door with a Bard would mean never needing to prepare it as a Sha'ir).
Just as a goofy suggestion though, how about Favored Soul? All good saves, D8HD, good BAB and 9th level casting. Similar to the Bard suggestion earlier, you could choose certain spells that you find yourself using frequently.

[Threadnaught]

Bard does have possibilities, yeah. Hadn't really thought of that; he gets me skills, a bigger HD, Bardic Knack...

("Be sure to allow access to the whole range of ACFs" doesn't mean to break the normal ACF rules, it's just a reminder that the class really needs the splatbook support to be anything but a wimpy sorcerer)

Best option as I see it is Battledancer at 1st, then Bard until Prestige.

Not sure what to do about Bardic Music, apparently the Eberron version loses Bardic Music and gets Bonus Feats instead.


Well, they're really wimpy Sorcerers with a better Skill list, more Skill points, better HD, better Knowledge and Bardic Music. Sorcerers just have more access to the broken Spells, or as I call them, Spells. :smallamused: