[3.5] Need help resolving a dispute

[Cryov]

DM had a baddie cast prismatic ray on our sorcerer. Failed will save and DM got the insanity roll.
Now this is where it gets iffy.
Sorcerer had a Third Eye of Clarity that can as an immediate action remove confusion, which is what insanity causes. Third of Eye Clarity is made with the Panacea Spell.

However if you look at Insanity spell text it says
"The affected creature suffers from a continuous confusion effect, as the spell.
Remove curse does not remove insanity. Greater restoration, heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish can restore the creature."

The debate here is if Third Eye of Clarity could actually remove this.
Third Eye of Clarity:
"You can activate this crystal to negate any
one of the following conditions affecting
you: confused, dazed, fascinated, or
stunned."

The problem is conflicting text.
Sorc argues that the item doesn't list a limit and the insanity spell doesn't bar it.
Mine and the DMs view on it is that only those spells listed from insanity can remove it and since third eye of clarity is made from a way lower level spell (panacea), it wouldn't be sufficiently powerful enough to end the confusion effect.

If anyone has some insight on this topic, it would be greatly appreciated. Maybe some material that says whether spell or item takes precedence when vs each other.

[Flickerdart]

The spell used to make the item has no bearing on anything at all. Insanity causes confusion, the item cures confusion, the story ends there.

[Cryov]

The spell used to make the item has no bearing on anything at all. Insanity causes confusion, the item cures confusion, the story ends there.

Not really much insight there, both the spell and item conflict with each other.
Spell says only X removes this but the item says it removes the spell effect.
The panacea is the only insight we got.

[Vhaidara]

I agree with Flickerdart and the Sorc. If you have an item that counters confusion, then let it counter confusion. Otherwise, what is the point?

Actually, my argument would be that you have to activate the third eye. i would say he can use it to remove the insanity, but only on a turn that he is able to act normally (11-20%)

[Flickerdart]

Not really much insight there, both the spell and item conflict with each other.
Spell says only X removes this but the item says it removes the spell effect.
The panacea is the only insight we got.
The spell does not have an exclusive list. It just says remove curse can't do it. Outside of that restriction, the game's normal rules take over.

[eggynack]

Not really much insight there, both the spell and item conflict with each other.
Spell says only X removes this but the item says it removes the spell effect.
The panacea is the only insight we got.
There is no conflict. Insanity doesn't say, "Only this stuff removes insanity." It says, "This stuff removes insanity." Even if this item were strictly limited to panacea's text, it wouldn't matter, because panacea can already remove insanity. The only spell specifically restricted from stopping insanity is remove curse.

[Vhaidara]

Also, when Insanity was published, neither Panacea or the Third Eye existed. Under those rules, Reality Revision (Psionic Wish) couldn't fix Insanity.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Insanity causes the Confused condition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#confused), with a duration of instantaneous. That means once Insanity has been cast, the spell is no longer in effect, just the condition. Remove Curse can't remove it because it only removes ongoing effects, Insanity has no ongoing effect and Remove Curse doesn't remove conditions. It goes on to list spells that can remove conditions as valid spells for removing Insanity's ongoing confused condition.

The Third Eye: Clarity removes any ongoing confused condition regardless of its source. Insanity is no longer in effect on the target, so the spell itself has absolutely no power to prohibit any effect that removes the confused condition from working. Insanity's text has absolutely no bearing, and the Third Eye: Clarity can do its thing and remove the confused condition. Again, it's not removing the Insanity spell because there is no more insanity spell, its duration is instantaneous, only the confused condition that it inflicted remains, and that third eye can indeed remove the confused condition.

[Crake]

Insanity causes the Confused condition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#confused), with a duration of instantaneous. That means once Insanity has been cast, the spell is no longer in effect, just the condition. Remove Curse can't remove it because it only removes ongoing effects, Insanity has no ongoing effect and Remove Curse doesn't remove conditions. It goes on to list spells that can remove conditions as valid spells for removing Insanity's ongoing confused condition.

The Third Eye: Clarity removes any ongoing confused condition regardless of its source. Insanity is no longer in effect on the target, so the spell itself has absolutely no power to prohibit any effect that removes the confused condition from working. Insanity's text has absolutely no bearing, and the Third Eye: Clarity can do its thing and remove the confused condition. Again, it's not removing the Insanity spell because there is no more insanity spell, its duration is instantaneous, only the confused condition that it inflicted remains, and that third eye can indeed remove the confused condition.

I'd have to agree with biff here, its not removing a spell, its removing a condition. Does seem like a ridiculously cheap fix though, so honestly I could see the DM houseruling that it wouldn't work, I know I'd certainly be tempted to as a DM.

[Kerilstrasz]

I agree with Flickerdart and the Sorc. If you have an item that counters confusion, then let it counter confusion. Otherwise, what is the point?

Actually, my argument would be that you have to activate the third eye. i would say he can use it to remove the insanity, but only on a turn that he is able to act normally (11-20%)

What he sais :smallsmile: