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View Full Version : PHII Druid reconcilation with prestige classes.



krossbow
2007-01-17, 10:55 PM
Hey, just a question; as we all know, the players handbook II varuiant druid is much better and more balanced than the normal juggernaut that is the 3.5 druid.


However, with the new variant a load of prestige classes go flying out the window. The druid, having relied on wildshaping as a central theme for multiple prestige classes is suddenly unable to adapt the current set up for the old classes.


Does anyone know of altered classes to fit, specifically with master of many forms? Some, like nature's warrior are fine, but others (see: master of many forms or planar shepherd--possibly usable in the new setup without being broken) won't convert.
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Stormcrow
2007-01-17, 11:56 PM
Warshaper from Complete Warrior has a similar problem, its final abillity is to be able to shift form at will, which the new druids can do anyway.

CockroachTeaParty
2007-01-18, 12:05 AM
This also effects the Abolisher prestige class from Lords of Madness. I too think the PHB II variant druid is more favorable than the standard druid, and this question has vexed me on more than one occasion. I look forward to suggestions from someone who has more time than I do.

TheOOB
2007-01-18, 12:08 AM
If a PrC was focused around shapeshifting, it probally wasn't balanced anyhow.

Shisumo
2007-01-18, 12:12 AM
Hey, just a question; as we all know, the players handbook II varuiant druid is much better and more balanced than the normal juggernaut that is the 3.5 druid.


However, with the new variant a load of prestige classes go flying out the window. The druid, having relied on wildshaping as a central theme for multiple prestige classes is suddenly unable to adapt the current set up for the old classes.


Does anyone know of altered classes to fit, specifically with master of many forms? Some, like nature's warrior are fine, but others (see: master of many forms or planar shepherd--possibly usable in the new setup without being broken) won't convert.

For the MoMF, the solution would seem to be to create 10 more shifting options, possibly some with less combat-specific applications, to replace the options given in the PrC as it stands. Skip the irrelevant abilities (like the fast wild shape), and if you think it needs it, give the class even-level spell-casting increases to make up for the lack.

One class ability you could begin with would be to give the druid some flexibility in their shapeshifted forms - at 1st level, the MoMF gains the ability to disguise himself as any animal (of the appropriate size) when shapeshifted, etc.

(shrug) By the time you're done, of course, you'll basically have an entire new PrC, but who cares?

FdL
2007-01-18, 01:01 AM
This has a lot to do with the fact that wid shape was broken. 90% of the PrC for druids were variants on abusing wild shape options. MoMF had the right fluff all the way, but was no fun to play, and highly abusable.

So they made a very intelligent move when they explicitly said in the PHB II variant that the shapeshifting feature is not compatible or equivalent to WS.

Then, back to square 1 with PrCs. Only the future will tell. Any PrC that's out there right now is not compatible, and if it is, it's broken as hell.

Clearly the feature has changed enough, because you cannot easily recreate a class à la MoMF, because PHB II variant is based on broad forms with specific features, not on selecting specific shapes from the MMs.

So, as I see it, the future direction would be a class that gives new "form templates" as those in the PHB II variant. They could be independent feats, not very different to other similar material in the PHB II for arcane casters. Don't have it right now, but wasn't there a "Dragon Shape" feat or something that was a lot in the vein of these "forms" of the PHB II druid?

Thing is, you'd not turn into a dragon, you'd take a "dragon form", with a limited, balanced set of features we all can live with. Reasonably powerful, just enough to be fun, without complications. And then we could have other "form feats", maybe a generic humanoid one, but that would be for disguises only. An aquatic one is definitely needed.

Don't know how feasible this idea is because I can't think of more of these new form templates...But it's the new thing, I tell you.

The big point here is that there are no PrC for druids because it makes a whole lot of sense to play a pure druid, all the way and more.

krossbow
2007-01-18, 12:09 PM
Actually, hold it... that's a good idea.


Templates might just fix that problem. If the Druid gets certain templates for their forms (dragon, ect.), then that might work.


However, This also might be slightly overpowering, as adding a template to their existing bonuses makes them very high.



Hmmm. Anyone know of templates that could corrospond? Half dragon would work for the dragon form, but on the others...

FdL
2007-01-18, 03:43 PM
I mean in the same way the PHB II variants work: a STR Bonus, a Natural Armor Bonus, natural weapons, some special ability, etc. Nothing too drastic.