Dark powers checks in Ravenloft

[Jokunen]

Just wondering that how have you been handling dark powers checks in Ravenloft setting? After quickly reading the rules, they seem like they would work mainly as an obstacle course for a good-aligned adventuring party, but would implode outside of that scope, especially when applied to NPCs.

Main issue is that it's too easy to fail the checks for trivial things such as stealing apples or whatever or casting 'routine' spells such as Ray of Enfeeblement or Waves or Fatigue. For example, in RAW, if a rogue would steal an apple from a good-aligned merchant every day, he would probably become a darklord in less than an year. Also, a wizard sitting in his tower and casting necromancy spells for research purposes would probably become a darklord rather quickly.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Keep in mind that Ravenloft is a lot darker than most other campaign settings.
There are very few innocents and a good alignment actually requires effort. Most NPCs will likely be neutral at best.

People are also constantly afraid of monsters, witches and anything that could be considered "unnatural";
the drawbacks that come with the Dark Powers gifts are a good way to get exiled (unlikely) or lynched (likely) unless you are strong enough to defend yourself.
You'll be dead long before you become a Dark Lord unless you're already a high level character.

Magic isn't a nice, friendly, helpful power or even "just a tool" like in Eberron or Faerun, it's a good way to die.
Unless you're with your realms primary church, getting outet as a spellcaster is a good way to get executed. Studying necromancy is not "routine" in Ravenloft, it's playing with fire.

[Jokunen]

I guess that's a good point about people with visible deformities getting lynched. However, getting a deformity just by stealing a few fruits still does feel a bit.. dumb. Magic and especially necromancy being darker and forbidden is also a good point, and I guess the dark powers checks make sense for native casters. On the other hand, if the party is a group of outlanders from other plane, it might feel a bit forced, but YMMV.


Still, if I understood correctly, there are necromancers even if magic is rare, and the vast majority of them aren't darklords. On average, it would take 700 spell levels of necromantic spells to become darklord. A 7th level wizard would probably have spell slots worth around 30-40 spell levels. So, theoretically, a 7th level wizard could become a darklord within a month, which is probably faster than anybody could notice that something is wrong if the wizard lives in a remote area. Realistically, it would be longer, but it still indicates that any necromancer would become a darklord within a few years if he casts spells with any frequency..

[Angelalex242]

Well, this is also the same realm where Paladins and Good Aligned Clerics (That is, anyone with the Aura of Good class feature), walk around like giant middle fingers to the powers that be of the land, and they all blip on the Dark Lord's automatic gooddar within a mile radius of his location. The Dark Lord ALWAYS knows where they are, and in fact, can't turn off his ability to know where they are. They're always a strain on his senses, always telling him 'Do Gooders are here and your head will soon be on a pike if you don't do something about it right the hell now.'

And if they've got a holy weapon, the radius narrows to 100 yards (football field.) You can imagine the Dark Lord's reaction to knowing real, viable threats to his existence with the weapons necessary to kill him are 'coming for his head', considering almost all of them are paranoid in the first place, save the really arrogant ones (Strahd, Azalin, and so on.)

[herrhauptmann]

I really can't remember the 3.X ravenloft rules for dark powers, but in older editions, I remember it being a very rare thing.
Killing a goblin? Shouldn't be a power check.
Accidentally killing a civillian (note I don't say 'innocent')? Probably not a power check.
Intentionally killing a civillian? Maybe, depending on thought process.
Intentionally killing a lot of civillians? Almost definitely.
And enjoying it? Absolutely.

Stealing to eat? No check.
Stealing. Probably not.
Stealing food from a starving child? Maybe.
Intentionally? Probably.
On purpose? Almost definitely.
With enjoyment? Definitely.

NPCs shouldn't get dark power checks. They're what the DM makes them.
Maybe as a recurring villain, they become a Domain Lord near the end of the campaign. That would make for a climactic final battle. Of course, in that case, why bother with a roll? Do it with the power of plot.
Players shouldn't get the checks often. If they do somehow become a domain lord, there's nothing to say that they're the lord of an entire country. Their domain could be like a 10x10room with a chest. Tell them: "Congrats, you're now the lord of a tiny little area. You're now an NPC, roll a new character."


In our game, we didn't really do them except in certain cases. ex:
Someone walking along in Richemulot gets ambushed by three rats and knocked into the harbor. They attack him and while he screams for help (can't swim well), passersby look at him and then walk away.
Player (OOC): Those jerks.
DM aks: "How do you feel about that?"
Player: "Angry."
DM: "How angry?"
Player: "Really angry. I hope that they end up ignored when they need help too."
DM: *Rolls.* "So be it. The dark powers take notice."
Player then spent the next three sessions acting very twitchy and paranoid.
Not everyone becomes a Dark Lord when they're evil. Generally only those with real power, and beyond redemption. Even then, the Domain Lords are more than just evil people who are powerful. And it should take more than just casting spells with an Evil descriptor or from the Necromancy school.
Heck, going crazy in a market place to force a power check could just draw the attention of the local Lord. After all, you're killing his people, his possessions, his prey and food source.

Strahd bargained with the Dark Powers to rejuvenate himself (he was getting old while brother and future sister in law were quite young) and became a vampire. He murdered his brother in an effort to gain his brothers fiance.
The fiance is regularly reborn in Barovia, and each time Strahd tries to woo her. Each time she dies before he is done. If he were to ever just let her live her life with his best wishes, he may be freed from Barovia. Especially if he starts trying to be a LN/LG/NG ruler, not a LE one.
Azalin became a powerful wizard king in Oerth (greyhawk world) who terrorized his own people. When his kind son was caught defying his rule, Azalin executed him himself. Then spent almost a century trying to bring his son back via arcane magic.
He wandered into the mists and emerged in Barovia (wasn't a domain lord yet). He found a spell that would bring his son back, but was suddenly unable to learn new spells. Regardless of school or level, he can't learn a spell. Especially not the spell that would bring back his son.
Lord Soth?
Pride and jealousy are his failings. I can't remember the details of his story, but it's in two books. Knight of the Black Rose, and Spectre of the Black Rose.




Heck, if the entire party is going crazy evil and hoping to become domain lords:

Slap them for metagame knowledge.
Make them co-lords of one small domain. (Assuming 4players) 4 square rooms arranged in a square. The center of the domain (the point where all 4 rooms meet) is open to allow all 4 of them to stand there and trade full attacks.
The domain won't end until they're all dead. If even 1 is alive, all the others will respawn in empty rooms with all their gear, rested, and at full HP/spells. The bodies and gear of the dead will disappear into nothingness at the instance of death (preventing them from getting a thousand duplicates of their gear)
Entrance to their domain? Maybe a hallway that circles their 4 rooms, with doors into each of the rooms.
Domain Lord powers? Never die or pass out from hunger, thirst, or lack of sleep. Not that they don't get hungry/thirsty/tired.
Congrats, welcome to hell. Trapped with 3 other super evil people and nothing to do but kill each other and wait for visitors.

[Jokunen]

I didn't really mean that you would actually roll dark powers checks for NPCs. What I meant is that according to RAW in 3.5 it might be too easy to become a darklord, as even doing trivial things, such as stealing fruits from a merchant for whom it's merely an annoyance, would make the character into a darklord over time. According to the table it has a 3% chance of dark powers noticing if the merchant happens to be of good alignment. Also, casting most necromancy spells has chance of failure of 1% per spell level, and if the spell also has evil descriptor, it's 2% per spell level. There are no limits about how many steps a character could 'advance' by just repeating this. So, technically a wizard could just sit in his tower and cast Ray of Enfeeblement to a dummy and eventually become a darklord.

I agree that it's kind of stupid, which really was my point.. so, yeah, you just have to use common sense.

[herrhauptmann]

According to the table it has a 3% chance of dark powers noticing if the merchant happens to be of good alignment. Also, casting most necromancy spells has chance of failure of 1% per spell level, and if the spell also has evil descriptor, it's 2% per spell level. There are no limits about how many steps a character could 'advance' by just repeating this. So, technically a wizard could just sit in his tower and cast Ray of Enfeeblement to a dummy and eventually become a darklord.


Holy crap, that is even dumber than I expected.
Do you have access to the AD&D ravenloft rule books? I'd recommend cribbing the rules from those.
Also the Van Richten guides.