Shadowcasters, Warlocks, and Mother Cyst

[Xuldarinar]

Just a question of interaction. Both shadowcasters and warlocks can technically qualify for Mother Cyst, not to mention similar feats such as Cerebrosis. How would these feats work with Shadowcasters, and how would they work with Warlocks (and Dragonfire Adepts)? Any other classes that are not strictly spellcasters that might qualify and their interactions?

[Xuldarinar]

Possible Shadowcaster Interactions:

You gain the spells, with uses and form as mysteries of their level.
You gain the spells, each usable 1/day
You gain the spells, and you must consume a use of a mystery of it's level in order to cast it
You gain the spells, but no slots/means to cast them.


Possible Warlock/Dragonfire Adept Interactions:
You gain the spells, each usable 1/day (or similar)
You gain the spells usable as invocations.
You gain the spells, but no slots/means to cast them.

[Necroticplague]

It's the last one for both. Yes, you now officially know how to cast cystic spells! you just have no spell slot with which to fuel them.

[Silva Stormrage]

Yep Necrotic Plague is right on this one. I would say #3 for shadow casters and #1 for warlocks would probably be fine though, the spells AREN'T that strong and both classes need a bit of a boost in versatility.

[Xuldarinar]

Alright. That sounds about right and that allowance certainly wouldn't hurt.


Are there any other classes that would fall into similar buckets? Being, they could qualify for the feats but lack spell slots with which to cast?

[Piggy Knowles]

Yeah, unfortunately, I think that by RAW, shadowcasters can't really benefit from the Mother Cyst feat. The problem is that they don't actually have a spell list, and even when their mysteries are cast as spells, it's explicitly called out as a different mechanic.

That said, as a DM, I would rule it as #3 ("You gain the spells, and you must consume a use of a mystery of it's level in order to cast it"). I do kind of wish that Ari Marmell had been a little more permissive in how he determined how mysteries and spells interact, so that they could explicitly benefit from things like Mother Cyst - because come on, how cool and flavorful would that be? But from some posts I've seen him make over on Enworld, he was under a lot of pressure to design something really "different," so.... meh.

[Xuldarinar]

Yeah, unfortunately, I think that by RAW, shadowcasters can't really benefit from the Mother Cyst feat. The problem is that they don't actually have a spell list, and even when their mysteries are cast as spells, it's explicitly called out as a different mechanic.

That said, as a DM, I would rule it as #3 ("You gain the spells, and you must consume a use of a mystery of it's level in order to cast it"). I do kind of wish that Ari Marmell had been a little more permissive in how he determined how mysteries and spells interact, so that they could explicitly benefit from things like Mother Cyst - because come on, how cool and flavorful would that be? But from some posts I've seen him make over on Enworld, he was under a lot of pressure to design something really "different," so.... meh.

It certainly is a shame that certain issues were not covered, including this matter. I will say that, in spite of its flaws, It remains my favorate class.

I agree, that while RaW gets in the way, there is no problem permitting that route.

[Chronos]

Note that interpretation 3 isn't completely useless, as it'll still let you use wands of those spells.