Webcomic-ing 101

[ittybittykitty]

I'm an aspiring webcomic artist and I bet there are a few of you folks out there who are either aspiring writers or artists or both. And, at least a few of you like The Giant and pclips, already have published webcomics. So, I think we have the makings of a good synergy session here.

I've never put together a webcomic before, so naturally I want to know what the process involves, how a good artist/writer relationship works, and any advice on what makes a good strip a good strip, that kind of thing. I think we could all benefit if any of you experienced people would like to discuss your views on the creative process and the practical side of webcomic-ing.

For you folks who, like me, haven't quite got there yet, post any questions you have, too, and let's compare notes!

[Yo-jimbo]

I posyed a thread called web comic deign that got some good feed back. But I always like to here more ideas as well.

the first step I have taken was to choose what kind of characters I want to do, and the feal for the strip I plan on posting once it's done.
I am to the sketching phase right now. My first main character sketch is done. I have also found that Dan Shives chracter sketches that he has posted on El Goonish Shive as a good bench mark to use.
Next I plan to do some story boards and will be scanning and coloring after that, then posting after I I have about five or six pages done, I will post the first one.

Well this is all I know, and it's mainly theory.

[ittybittykitty]

I have a few ideas I've been playing with and I've actually started making a few sketches of the potential characters. Luckily, with my work I have access to all kinds of nifty graphics programs to touch them up with, but I would really like to work with a partner on the dialogue and story. I could do it myself, but having someone else's perspective and wit to help out when facing the terrible and insidious writer's block (CR 21) is also good. Plus that would give me more time to focus on the art and make it better.

How do you plan on publishing your work? Your webpage? Someone elses webpage?

[Yo-jimbo]

I think I will test it out on this sight in the forums for the first couple, but I have a free website that I've used for a few years that I will post it on until I get people reading it. zthen I will get my own url.

[pclips]

Good thread, but sheesh...where to begin?

Honestly the first question you have to ask yourself is why you're doing it. List all of the reasons and put them in order of importance, just for your own clarity of mind. Some of the reasons people do webcomics:

to entertain myself
to entertain other people
to explore a new medium
to blog my life in pictures instead of words
to develop my art/writing as a craft
to learn HTML and website design
to showcase my art/writing
to get feedback and useful criticism
to learn how it's done
to tell a story that's burning to be told
to present a character who is real in my head
because there are cost barriers to self-publishing in print
because publishers say my work is not good enough
because publishers will not print my kind of comic
because the kind of comic I want to do can't be printed
because I love webcomics and want to participate/contribute
to promote something else (wasn't this OOTS' original reason to be?)
to be in the club of people who do webcomics
to receive recognition for my work
to have fans
to springboard into other projects
because I can do it better than the people who are known for it
for college credit (yes, I have heard this one)
to have a piece of intellectual property to call my own
to make a little money
to quit my job and make a living at something enjoyable
to make a LOT of money
to build an globe-spanning empire
to leave a creative legacy which will outlive me
to prove a point
because the ghost of my father told me to

I'm not going to tell you all of my reasons. But you should be honest with yourself about yours. And then the next step is to define your goals and how to measure your success at them. Thread will continue.

[The Extinguisher]

About the artist/writer relationship.

Get to know the artist. As a freind rather than a partner. Infact, if you have a pre-existing relationship, thats a plus.

Describe as much as you can to your artist. He/she is there to draw, not to figure out actions, blocking and the like.

There's more, I just can't figure it out right now.

[Waf]

Probably the biggest lesson I've learned about making a webcomic is the best way to learn how to make a webcomic is to take the plunge and make one. There's just so many tiny little things that go into making comics that you just pick up as you go. If you have an idea for one, I'd go grab a comicgensis domain right now (cause iirc it takes a week for it to activate). Use that week to build ideas and as soon as you get your site start making it.

In all honesty the number one hardship I see most people starting up a webcomic have is they never do it. The usual reason is something on the lines of "Oh well I want to wait till I'm better prepared to make the best comic ever." But you can't really know how to prepare till you get you feet wet so they best way to prepare to make the best comic ever is to make a mediocre one first.

Also the people on this forum are inexplicable nice (and awesome) so while your trying to make one it seems like a great place to get C&C. :elan:

[bongotezz]

i have to agree with Waf. the best way to figure out how to make them is to actually make some and get your friends opinion on them and have them make suggestions on what to change or improve on. the first web comic i made is here

http://www.bscomics.com/Bongotezz_Comics/BC0001/bc0001.html

if you take a look it's pretty awful with regards to graphics and design. as you look through them you'll see how it evolved and improved. i even made some notes at the bottom as to what i changed. you dont have to release early stuff you make and you can even redo it to improve it. i used what i learned on making this webcomic to create the amazing superteam comic found here

http://www.bscomics.com/Superteam/AS0001/as0001.html

you'll notice that there are very little changes made to the overall design of this comic as it progresses because i tried to think about how it will work and how it will look before i even started making them. i designed character sheets and backgrounds and even did some test pictures before i started making them. this led to a more consistent comic right from the start.

things to think about before starting to make the comics
how are you going to make the panels?
how are you going to animate the characters?
what art style are you going to use?
how will you fit dialog baloons into the panels?
how many "pages"will one comic be and what happens if you go over one page in size?

thats all i can think of right now but good luck.

[ittybittykitty]

How far in advance do you prepare the script for a particular "page"? Is it best to write several pages ahead or is it better to just write them as you go? I have a whole story arc planned out, but only about six pages worth of actual script so far.

Also, any advice on laying out panels?

[Blood]

Actually, I have lots of different story ideas bouncing around in my head. They're just bursting to be perfected, then to be let out. I think I would much rather do a comic than a book, though I would have to perfect my writing skills in the areas of drama, fantasy, and comedy, and I would need an illustrator, as my art sucks.

Plus, I'm still pretty young, so I'm liable to change my mind about this kind of thing over and over. :smallbiggrin:

[Yo-jimbo]

I really don't believe that web comics are about good art. You can go to quite a few and see art that would not be considered. Simple shapes turn into great characters. Also thoough I have yet to make and publish a web comic I can say from having set a lot of goals with work, if you don't start and wait until you attain perfection, you could be waiting a while. But who am I to speak I haven't done anything since my story board for my first strip.

[Blood]

I really don't believe that web comics are about good art. You can go to quite a few and see art that would not be considered. Simple shapes turn into great characters. If you don't start and wait until you attain perfection, you could be waiting a while.
You're absolutely right. OotS is a perfect example. The art is simplistic, but it fits so well, and it isn't even the awesome part of the comic. Problem is, I have no style, and frankly, I don't enjoy the drawing. If I did like it, I'd be writing comics all the time, bad drawing or no - if I did it often enough, I'd get better anyway.

[Sneak]

I'm probably not the perfect person to take advice from about a webcomic...

...mine was updated sporadically and irresponsibly, had kinda not that good art, a mediocre storyline, and...yeah.

But personally, I usually didn't prepare a script in advance. I did however, have random ideas a lot during the day and often when I was lying in bed. I kept a notepad next to my bed to write down all these weird nighttime ideas. I don't know if you're the same as I am at all in that you have ideas when you're falling asleep, but if you are, I would recommend that.

[Blood]

Wow, Sneak, you just gave me a crazy idea. It probably wouldn't work; actually, I don't think it could possibly work...

[Waf]

I do the notepad by the bed thing. It really works wonders. I used to write out full chapter scripts months in advance so I could give em to my partner to read over them. He never did so I've just go to writing one or two slightly ahead of time.

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

I might be willing to write dialogue. What type of comic are you going for, something humorous like OOT, Nodwick and Full Frontal Nerdity, or are you going for something more serious

[The Extinguisher]

I get most of my ideas in math class.
But thats the good thing about "gag-a-day" comics. you don't need a plot.

Don't get caught up in deadlines and the such. It will only anger you.

[Rex Idiotarum]

My brother says that he'll illustrate a Comic if I write it. The Rise of The Scworpians will be out soon enough (after months of production). Now,where can I find the Lyrics to thriller translated into Latin? and is a translation considered in a copyright?

I like the Idea of a Gag-a-day with potential to become an epic.

[ittybittykitty]

The comic I'm working on is called "Out Of Character", and it's about four gamers who's characters suddenly become their consciences and follow them around (no one else can see them except their individual gamers, and the consciences can see each other). Hilarity ensues. It's going to be both funny and with a plot. The plot isn't going to be high drama or anything.

I actually just finished a very rough draft of what the gamers are going to look like. Shading, tweaking, etc. to be done later.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q212/ittybittykitty4337/ooc-1.png
Dirk the Rules Lawyer, Matt the Harassed GM, "Tank" the Gamer Girl, and Seth the Tragically Inadequate Power Gamer

I like the notepad by the bed idea, I always have these great dreams that would make excellent jokes for story or strip and I forget them.


Actually, I have lots of different story ideas bouncing around in my head. They're just bursting to be perfected, then to be let out. I think I would much rather do a comic than a book, though I would have to perfect my writing skills in the areas of drama, fantasy, and comedy, and I would need an illustrator, as my art sucks.


If you want, I can do some sketches for you. I always find that if I can look at my characters, their personality just falls into place.

[Yo-jimbo]

The title of mine is called "The Uberverse" Chapter one is Adventuring Idle. My brother is helping me out with brain storming. This first part is kinda based on american idol, and will integrate character sheets and dice rolling for skill checks. The remainder will have a real world (from MTV) feel to it, with the monolagues (sp?)

[bongotezz]

How far in advance do you prepare the script for a particular "page"? Is it best to write several pages ahead or is it better to just write them as you go? I have a whole story arc planned out, but only about six pages worth of actual script so far.

Also, any advice on laying out panels?


i currently have 66 scripts for amazing superteam and only 15 or so finished. i like to be able to go back and revise things if i get a good idea but this comic is a continuing story so the comics have continunity to watch. if i was just doing stand alone comics i probablly wouldn't have as many written up.

not much advice for panels but i didn't want to spend a lot of time making them so i made different sizes that would work for a 1 page comic and saved different layouts. its a matter of copy and paste now.

[Blood]

If you want, I can do some sketches for you. I always find that if I can look at my characters, their personality just falls into place.
I actually really like the style of the characters in that spoiler. Maybe I'll have to use one of my many ideas and then find a willing artist. I'll keep you in mind.

So yeah, anyone who would like to work on a webcomic with me, as illustrator and maybe even co-author, send me a PM. This isn't a definite thing, though, so don't get too overexcited.

[Sneak]

Well, I would be able to work with someone. But be warned that I am notoriously irresponsible. Now if you're not scared off already...

I can draw and write (not well, but I can do humor), but I can only do simple style drawings (OOTS, see my old webcomic Half-Wit (halfwit.thewebcomic.com)). And I get writer's block often, and think of ideas sporadically.

In fact, I have lots of ideas, and almost started a different webcomic...but the problem is that I'm not sure my ideas are interesting enough to start a whole series based on them.

[Waf]

One big thing I recommend is if you are going to do an illustrator comic and you plan to be C&Ping a lot is to work from the 3/4 position. If you don't know what that is goto OoTs and look how the characters stand. The aren't facing the camera, but they aren't looking perpendicular to the camera they are somewhere in between.

There are some big advantages of this stance. If you do a head on perspective of the characters with them looking at the camera that's what it will look like they are doing. Looking at the camera rather than each other. If you put em in profile (perpendicular to the camera) it cuts off half of their face which makes it very difficult to convey expressions. With this stance it gives the impression that the characters are looking at each other while keeping their faces in clear view allowing an artist to have his cake and eat it too.

Also you can really fudge it on what they're looking at with this perspective and it will still work. Look at panel 4 of episode 403 of OoTs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0403.html). If you think about it the guard isn't even looking at Belkar. But it sure looks like he is as he talks to him.

If writing is your big thing and you wanna save time on comic creation by C&Ping you absolutely can not go wrong with the 3/4 stance it is most definitely the most versatile.

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

Itty, if you want, you could send me a short strip you've got ready and I could put some dialogue to it and see what you think.

[PirateMonk]

The comic I'm working on is called "Out Of Character", and it's about four gamers who's characters suddenly become their consciences and follow them around (no one else can see them except their individual gamers, and the consciences can see each other). Hilarity ensues. It's going to be both funny and with a plot. The plot isn't going to be high drama or anything.

That sounds at least mildly amusing. Nice character illustration. I might read it, if you ever get around to it and post a link in an obvious place.

[ittybittykitty]

Itty, if you want, you could send me a short strip you've got ready and I could put some dialogue to it and see what you think.


I haven't got to laying out the first strip yet, I'm still working on the characters. With a few minor tweaks, I think the geeks are done. Their consciences/game characters are still in the works, although Dirk does make a nice dwarven cleric.


That sounds at least mildly amusing. Nice character illustration. I might read it, if you ever get around to it and post a link in an obvious place.

Thanks! I'll probably post a link to it on this site somewhere once I get a few panels done and up. Since I do some graphic design professionally, I'm a perfectionist about my work so it has to be...just...right...before I'll let it out of my sight. I want to make my backgrounds, etc. semi-detailed, so how fast I get it done really depends on how much free time I have to throw at it.

[PirateMonk]

it's about four gamers who's characters suddenly become their consciences and follow them around

Wait, what about Matt? Does he have a character?

[ittybittykitty]

Yeah, his character is an old PC paladin of his that he resurrected to be an NPC companion for the group.

[PirateMonk]

Okay, thanks.

[PirateMonk]

So, with a dwarven cleric and a paladin, this might not be such a bad idea (having your character advise you on what to do). But with whatever characters Seth and 'Tank' are likely to dream up...

[ittybittykitty]

I was thinking about having Tank be a fighter (ergo the nick name) and Seth be an insanely multiclassed spell caster in true munckin tradition.

[PirateMonk]

If they already had a fighter, a paladin might not have been the most effective NPC companion. Then again, in my first adventure, the party consisted of a wizard, a broadsword warrior, a fencer, and a rogue with a few spells.

[ittybittykitty]

Mostly, it's just a plot thing. Matt's personality fits a paladin better, so a paladin is his conscience.

[PirateMonk]

Wait, so the point is to have the character match the player?

[ittybittykitty]

Their characters/consciences are kind of their mental avatars, an external personification of their desires, beliefs, etc. Matt's conscience is a paladin because he believes in chivalry, honor, obeying the spirit of the law, standing up for the right thing, etc. Tank's conscience is a Fighter/Rogue because she aggressive on the surface (a "one of the guys" gal), but more more sublte underneath. Seth's character is a hidiously munchkined out wizard because he desperately wants to wield some kind of power over his life but just can't seem to grasp it.

And I just thought it was a neat gimmick.

[Mr. Moon]

This may have already been answered, but I'm a bit to lazy to read everything right now.

What site would be recomemended for hosting a webcomic on? I've got an idea in my head that is dying to get out, and I figured I might as well start.

So far I have the script for the first two pages done, and I'm just starting on sketching the main character. I have the plot in mind, and a good idea of who the character is, what he wants... Basicly, it's like he's a real half-orc, living inside my head, who's shared all his secrets with me.

[Waf]

As far as I know www.comicgenesis.com is still the best place to get started. It's free and it comes with working html and a working autoupdater which are some very nice tools to get starting out.

[ElfLad]

This may have already been answered, but I'm a bit to lazy to read everything right now.
Take it from me. Webcomics take a lot of work. If you're too lazy to read through as few pages, that is not a very good sign.

[pclips]

Take it from me. Webcomics take a lot of work. If you're too lazy to read through as few pages, that is not a very good sign.

Word.

Very good hosting for webcomics can be found at http://www.webcomicsnation.com. Also check out http://www.smackjeeves.com. And if you think you might eventually develop your comic into the next Men In Black or something, then you could try http://www.drunkduck.com, which is now owned by Platinum Studios with the intention of making it a farm club for their print comics publishing.

[Mr. Moon]

Heh. Thanks for the warning, Elflad.

But just so you know, I did read the rest right after I posted. So yeah, I'm working on it. Slowely, I am becoming less and less lazy!

Anyway, I'm not assuming this to be very good. It's only my first shot at a webcomic, so if no one reads it, I won't mind.

Maybe, one day, if my dream comes true, I can be the next Rich Burwel. But I'm not betting any money on it.

[Daedrous Avari]

Smackjeeves.com is the best. It's got free hosting, a great community, lots of site customization, and a great sprite community. One of the best sprite comics is hosted on there. I'm known as ValorForm there.

Also, it gives you the ability to delete bad comments, ratings.

[Rinion]

My webcomic's not much, but I can offer advice from my experience:
1) Write down your long-term plot, and what happens in between.
2) Try to have a buffer of already-made comics to post, in case you ever run out of time.
3) Always, always be true to your update schedule. People don't like unreliable webcomics.
4) Endurance. Erfworld aside, a lot of webcomics have gained their popularity for being around for so long. Don't just fizzle out. This is why having a plot written down is a good idea.

[LurkerInPlayground]

So you want to draw a webcomic...
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=3766

It has some good advice as well as some of the more...unforgiving in-your-face, "don't waste our time" basics that Penny Arcade forumites seem to be famous for. If there's one thing they're good at, it's being anal about art and the arrangement thereof.

[Mr. Moon]

All right. Would you mind reading what I have of the script so far and telling me what you think? Bare in mind, I haven't eddited it yet.



Page One:

Pannel One: KRALL and LAR are sparing by a lake at the top of a hill. KRALL has swung his sword, LAR is ducking under the blow.
LAR: Ha! Missed me, Krall!

Pannel Two: KRALL drops to his knee and kicks LAR's feet so he falls.
KRALL: Oh yeah?

Pannel Three: LAR falls down on his back, grinning, dropping his sword.
LAR: Oof!
SFX: THUD!

Pannel Four: LAR sits up and grabs KRALL by the leg.

Pannel Five: KRALL falls over onto LAR, dropping his sword.
LAR: Get down here where I can reach you!

Pannel Six: KRALL and LAR roll down the hill, wrestling.

Pannel Seven: More rolling/wrestling/laughing

Pannel Eight: One last pannel of rolling/wrestling/laughing.

Pannel Nine: The pair come to a stop at the bottem of a hill.

Pannel Ten: The pair sits up, grinning at each other.
KRALL: Whew...
LAR: Ha ha...

Pannel 11: A shadow falls over them.

Pannel 12: LAR looks up.
LAR: Uh-oh...

Page Two

Pannel One: Rear, worm's-eye view. KRALL and LAR look up. Over their shoulders, we can see MOONMAD glaring down at them.
MOONMAD: There you are. I should have known. Where are your swords?

Pannel Two: Side view. LAR rubs the back of his head, and flashes a nervious grin.
LAR: We, uh, left them at the top of the hill, Moonmad.

Pannel Three: MOONMAD rubs her nose.
MOONMAD: Fine. Krall, go get your swords.

Pannel Four: With a sigh, KRALL stands.
KRALL: Fine. Coming, Lar?
LAR: Sur-
MOONMAD: No, I want to talk with you, Lar.

Pannel Five: With a shrug, KRALL walks back up the hill. MOONMAD glares up at his back.

Pannel Six: Once KRALL is out of earshot, MOONMAD glares at LAR. LAR kicks a rock, and looks down.
MOONMAD: You should know better then to spend time with Oma's Bastard, Lar. He's only a half-orc. Your a pureblood.
LAR: So?

Pannel Seven: MOONMAD rolls her eyes.
MOONMAD: Mark my words, kid. That guy is bad news.
LAR: Whatever. He's my friend.

Pannel Eight: MOONMAD walks away. LAR glares after her.

Pannel Nine: KRALL walks down the hill, two swords in hand.

Pannel Ten: KRALL hands LAR his sword.
KRALL: What'd she want?

Pannel 11: Face shot of LAR, looking in the dirrection MOONMAD walked off in.
LAR: Nothing.

Page Three


Panel One: Estab. veiw of Oma's hut. This should be fairly large, to make up for the lack of pannels.
Krall (from inside of hut): I dunno why she doesn't like me, Mom.

Pannel Two: Inside Oma's hut. KRALL is sitting at a table, on which OMA is placing a meal.
KRALL: I just keep getting the impresion that orcs in this village don't like me.
OMA: Well, Moonmad's like that. She isn't easy to please.

Pannel Three: (From behind KRALL) KRALL has picked up his meal (a peice of meat or something sutably orcish) and is staring at it gloomily. OMA is sitting down accross from him.
KRALL: But it's not just her. Even Lar's been evasive lately.
OMA: Well, I'd suppose it has something to do with your father...

Pannel Four: KRALL points his joint of meat at Oma, who is off-pannel, his eyes narrowed.
KRALL: Who was my father, Mom? A human, right?

Pannel Five: Side, face shot of OMA, who looks shocked.
OMA: !!

Pannel Six: Front, face shot of OMA.
OMA: Well, yes-

Pannel Seven: Door slams open, in the background. The table OMA and KRALL are in is in the foreground, the two of them glance sharply at this new inturption, in the shape of an adault, male orc named HUNTER.
HUNTER: Oma! You have to hurry! We need your healing skills!
SFX: THUD!

Pannel Eight: OMA stands up from the table, side view, her face turned away from the camera.
OMA: What is it?!

Pannel Nine: Worms eye face shot of HUNTER, looking down and to the left.
HUNTER: It's... It's the chief.

[Ceska]

I can't say much in general as I'm no artist, but I'd try to cut the nametelling to a minimum. While it is good to know who is who, after some time you could avoid it and just let them look straight to each other.

[Raistlin1040]

Although my comic (TAL) is basicly devoid of fans I have a few tips.

1.Stick with a style of writing your characters. Characters have their own personality. Just because Timmy the Rogue was created by you, doesn't mean that he becomes a paragon of good just because you say so. He's going to keep being a greedy, lying, theiving rogue. Don't change your character's personality drasticlly. It'll freak everyone out.

2. Throw in cliffhangers and plot twists but remember to keep the story funny(If it's a funny comic) or Actiony (If it's adventurous).