Player Build: Magical Longsword Mage Slayer

[j_spencer93]

Hate making numerous threads but another post reminded me of this. I have three questions regarding a player's build but first let me explain his character. He is playing as a Mulan Human (Faerun seetting) and got to start at level 4. He chose duskblade for all of these. At 5th level he choose spellsword (i messed up and gave him wrong prerequisites but let him keep it afterwards). 6th level Occult slayer. 7th level thayan knight (story wise, became a thayan knight of another player). in the future he also wants SUEL ARCANAMACH.
Ok in my opinion he spellsword classes are redundant with duskblade, but he was the double channel ability to put any two spells into his already spellstoring longsword and the ASF reduction for his +3 fullplate. He wants occult slayer to damage mages and out turn spells back. Lastly he wants Suel Arcanamach for dispelling strike.
In this game session i allowed feats based on their back story, allowing the possibilities of extra feats: 2 flaws, a region and a background feat.

Q1: is the spellswords abilities really that great for the duskblade or as redundant as i think it is?
Q2: does the ASF of spellsword and suel stack (i think not)?
Q3: does the dusk blades ability to cast spells through his blade stack with the double channel of spellsword? And do those even stack with a spell storing weapon?

[Forrestfire]

I'd suggest he avoid Suel Arcanamach, because it has its own casting and doesn't advance Duskblade. I'd personally suggest he get Abjurant Champion or the like.


It's pretty redundant. It loses spell levels for an x/day ability that still burns spell slots to do what you want.

The arcane spell failure reduction of Suel and Spellsword should stack perfectly fine, as they're not bonuses or penalties. They're just abilities that reduce the spell failure chance.

The Spellsword can channel a spell into his weapon as a move action, and it's then discharged the next time he hits. The Duskblade can use a touch spell through his weapon as a standard action, discharging it when it hits. These have no overlap, and can be used in the same turn as you like. The multiple spell channel ability costs multiple move actions, and they all discharge when it next hits.
They do stack with a spell-storing weapon, because it also discharges as a free action when it hits.


I don't know the specifics of the Suel Arcanamach's dispelling strike, but there's a second-level spell called Arcane Turmoil that applies a targeted dispel to the target, which would probably be what he wants.

[j_spencer93]

Suel will most likely just be dropped, but he really looking forward to stacking double channel, duskblade, and spellstoring together to do "omnislash".
Thanks for the response. Was unsure of how these classes worked, never had anyone use any of them besides duskblade. Oh the next feat he wants is arcane strike, is it worth it in this build?

[Twilightwyrm]

To answer your questions in order:

1) They are largely redundant, and the class itself hurts more than it helps by losing Duskblade caster levels. While the Duskblade does not need them quite as much as a full caster, you only really want to lose them for a good reason. Spellsword is not a good reason.

2) They should stack. The Suel ability specifically states it as subtracting from your total ASF chance, which the Spellsword already modifies. You are still better off with full Duskblade, but if you really want to wear that Adamantine Fullplate, this combination would help.

3) Yes, but is it largely ineffective. The Spellsword Channel is a move action, and the Duskblade Channel is a standard action, so if you don't want to move, you could theoretically channel two spells onto a target in one turn. While this might sound nice in theory, at 13th level the Duskblade can arcane channel into a full attack. Therefore you are looking at channeling two different spells into your single attack, vs. channeling the same spell three times into three different attacks. The math tends to work out in the straight Duskblade's favor.

EDIT: Ninja'd. :smallfrown:

[j_spencer93]

Good points. I doubt i can talk him out of the spellsword though, he does not build for effective builds but for whatever he thinks sounds cool. He is dead set on that massive 1 strike. I will prob try to talk him out of Suel and take more duskblade.

[Forrestfire]

To make it easier on him, maybe suggest he pick up the Travel Devotion feat, to allow him to move as a swift action for a minute once per day. That way, he can still use his move action to channel a spell.

[j_spencer93]

Great idea. He isn't new to DND but he is only beginning to actually become an active player, he use to just follow what he was told. He he grabs that he might feel better about his character too (one other player keeps putting it down).

[j_spencer93]

One player has an item that treats the wearer as if hasted (or so they say, i really forgot what items they found). If this item does exsist, would that be a better solution? They have tons of items...killed a 13th level caster at level 4. She was supposed to aid them, they found her literally dying and finished the job. Caused me alot of problems.

[TuggyNE]

One player has an item that treats the wearer as if hasted (or so they say, i really forgot what items they found). If this item does exsist, would that be a better solution?

It wouldn't make any difference, no; haste gives no extra actions, and the extra attack from it is not usable in a standard action either.

[j_spencer93]

Thats exactly what i thought. Ok thanks for all the help, how do i close this forum?

[herrhauptmann]

To answer your questions in order:

1) They are largely redundant, and the class itself hurts more than it helps by losing Duskblade caster levels. While the Duskblade does not need them quite as much as a full caster, you only really want to lose them for a good reason. Spellsword is not a good reason.


One level of spellsword is decent, especially if it's followed by 5 levels of abjurant champion.
Are 6 levels of classes that grant full casting worth the lost duskblade abilities? End game? I'd say probably. Mid levels? Maybe not.

Occult slayer? I'd say it's not worth it. OS gets some neat abilities that let you survive mages, but I personally don't think it lets you kill them any better. I really think you'd be better off with a level in ranger (Favored Enemy: Arcanist, and the feat Nemesis). No matter what, you can find their square. With Pierce magic concealment, that's all you need to hit them, PMC will let you pierce their illusions and veils. (And transmutations/conjurations/necromancies/divinations/abjurations that grant miss chances)

Witchslayer is another option (ToM). But again, I don't think it's worth the lost caster levels (prereqs aren't as bad though)

Is he going for the mageslayer feat tree?
My personal opinion: Abjurant Champion 5's ability should allow him to take mageslayer and just tie his caster level to his bab, letting you ignore the CL penalties for the feats.

[j_spencer93]

He likes duskblade and spellsword without question i would be hard pressed to remove them from the build, and thayan knight is a most because of story.
on that note suel is gone most likely, and Occult Slayer he likes the turning ability, but i prob could get him to replace it.
and yes he has mageslayer (although it lowers his CL-4).
Any other ideas? the witchslayer's name fits but ill give a look at its abilities.

[j_spencer93]

He already has the prerequisites to witchslayer so thats a plus. I do know he was aiming for Occult slayer 2 for the double damage ability with a readied action to disrupt spellcasting.

[j_spencer93]

mettle=evasion like ability, and has several cool abilities including 1 to stop magical abilities of a creature for 1 round/ sweet, defiantly fits.

[Xerlith]

Show him the Slashing Dispel spell. It's a 5th level Duskblade spell. He should stay in the class to get to that. And channel it. It's better than the Dispelling Strike. If you're playing with Tome of Battle, maybe he could dip Warblade and you could let him trade two of his disciplines for one from these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255468) for a more magical swordsman feel. And you could let him stack the maneuvers with the spell channel. Don't worry about him breaking the game, he's placed at high tier 4 at best as he is now. :smallwink:

Alternatively, show him ErrantX's remake of Suel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126605), swapping the SF:Concentration back for Combat casting. It uses ToB as well, though.

[j_spencer93]

Xerlith that is perfect, replaces Suel too. Thanks that is actually an amazing substitution.

[Xerlith]

You're welcome. He'll be forced to pick an Initiator class on the current levelup though, to fulfill the SA requirements. It'll be totally worth it though.

[j_spencer93]

That will fit his fighting style. I prob just rewrite his character (i messed up and gave spellsword early) and fix the classes. I will leave his stats as are.