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Lord Xaedien
2007-01-18, 04:35 AM
Despite a long D&D history I have never tried mounted combat in any serious capacity. My friend is looking to run a game where our characters are part of a special cavalry unit. After talking with him, we decided that playing a scout was a good desicion for my character. I am slightly confused about some of the rules regarding fighting on horseback, as well as what feats and stats I will need to focus on.

I am looking to use a longbow, and I am slightly confused as to the rules regarding moving and shooting. Can I take a single move and then full attack with no penalty? I know I get a -4 while taking a double move... and is there a feat to lessen that?

What other feats would you recommend, and is this going to be a feat heavy enough build that I should take some fighter levels?

Lastly, any good prestige class ideas? I wouldn't mind going most of the way in scout, but I want all my options to be explored. Thanks!

dead_but_dreaming
2007-01-18, 04:39 AM
I don't know anything about mounted combat, but I think there's some sort of outrider thingy in one of the Complete-books. CA or CW I believe.

JungeonJeff
2007-01-18, 04:43 AM
First off, Im affraid that WotC decided that you not your mount has to move 10+feet to gain the Skirmish bonus, but talk to your GM about allowing it anyways.

Second. Choose a small race (favourbly Halfling). This will make your character work even if entering an underground enviroment, as you can mount Medium sized mounts.

-It also enables you to enter the Halfling Outrider prestige class, as well as the ...errrr... Wildplanes Outrider? (something like that. its a small 3lvl prestige class, that gives some nifty riding bonuses)

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-01-18, 04:44 AM
I am looking to use a longbow, and I am slightly confused as to the rules regarding moving and shooting. Can I take a single move and then full attack with no penalty? I know I get a -4 while taking a double move... and is there a feat to lessen that?


Let me address this point. Someone else will be along shortly to talk about the others.

You can take a single move and fire once with your bow with no penalty. If you want to make a full attack you have to shoot while moving and must take the -4 penalty.

You should read the Rules of the Game articles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/)about mounts on WotC's site. Here is the first one:
Rules of the Game - All About Mounts (Part One) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a)

dead_but_dreaming
2007-01-18, 04:45 AM
...and if you for some reason decide on playing a fighter or paladin, there's the Chevalier-prestige class (if your into knightly sorts of things).

JaronK
2007-01-18, 06:00 AM
If you really want to do mounted combat well, no one does it like a Halfling on a nice Magebreed Riding Dog. Seriously. This is mostly because of the Halfling Outrider PrC from Complete Warrior, which advances both Paladin Mount and Druid Animal Companion progression... so if you happen to have a single being that is both of those things (and there's a feat that does this), your mount becomes absolutely awesome. The CO boards managed to then make this mount into a dragon, but I don't know how to do that.

The basic build, I believe, was something like Paladin 6/Beastmaster 1/Halfling Outrider 10/Wild Plains Outrider 3. The resulting character is now riding a mount with an effective animal companion level of 18 and a paladin mount level of 16, netting your wardog the following bonuses:

+20 HD, +22 Natural AC, +10 Str, Int 9, Empathic Link, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Share Saving Throws, Improved Speed (+20'), Command Creatures of Kind, Spell Resistance, 7 Bonus Tricks, Druidic Link, Devotion, and Multiattack. Sadly, there's a bit of overlap (you get Improved Evasion and Share Spells twice), but c'est la vie. Your dog can now outfight the rest of the party. Feel free to add a few feats to pump him up. It's worth noting that there's a class substitution level in the Planar Handbook where a Paladin can lose Remove Disease at 6th level and instead give his mount the celestial template. Rock on. Among other things, this gives your mount spell resistance equal to its hitdice+5... which is a big deal, since this thing is going to have a lot of hitdice. Note: since you've got share spells, you can share any spell that hits you with your mount, thus triggering spell resistance, I think.

Now, that might not be quite what you were looking for, but there's something to be said for kicking ass with super dog. Plus, he's medium sized, so he can fit down corridors.

JaronK

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-01-18, 06:10 AM
Note: since you've got share spells, you can share any spell that hits you with your mount, thus triggering spell resistance, I think.


That will not work by itself, I am afraid.
You can only share spells YOU cast on yourself.


Share Spells: At the paladin’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect her mount.
(my emphasis)

JaronK
2007-01-18, 06:44 AM
Damn, it was a funny thought. Okay, ignore that idea... it was just a fun thought. The rest of the build works great.

Valairn
2007-01-18, 06:53 AM
Yes that is awesome, but how does he make a good mounted scout?

ReluctantDragon
2007-01-18, 07:25 AM
So, its been stated you want halfling. You also want ranger. Ranger leads to halfling outrider. You are able to overcome the limitations on shooting your bow while riding. You are able to make use of the ranger combat style. Any extra feats you have, go for the mounted combat tree. Use stoutheart halfling for the extra feat if you want. In terms of making a "Scout" as the class and mounted combat...its just not a good choice, mechanically speaking. Ranger was the scout long before there was a Scout, so its definitely all around the better choice.

JaronK
2007-01-18, 07:57 AM
Yes that is awesome, but how does he make a good mounted scout?

The problem here is that the scout is not designed to be riding, at all. Skirmish damage doesn't work at all while mounted, and your stealth abilities don't work as well on a giant mount either (though with Wild Plains Outrider, you can fake it). The result is that the character he wants, namely a Scout on a mount, simply can't be made to work (unless he can get his DM to okay Skirmishing while mounted, in which case go nuts).

So, let me revise the last build, since I got to look it over a bit more... it ends up looking like this:

Ranger 1 Mounted Combat
Paladin 1
Paladin 2 Mounted Archery
Paladin 3
Planar Paladin 4
Paladin 5 Skill Focus: Handle Animal
Planar Paladin 6
Beastmaster 1
Halfling Outrider 1Devoted Tracker
Halfling Outrider 2
Halfling Outrider 3
Halfling Outrider 4 Natural Bond
Halfling Outrider 5
Halfling Outrider 6
Halfling Outrider 7 Ride By Attack
Halfling Outrider 8
Halfling Outrider 9
Halfling Outrider 10 Spirited Charge
Wild Plains Outrider 1
Wild Plains Outrider 2

You actually need Ranger to meet the prerequisits of Devoted Tracker, as well as the various skill requirements for Halfling Outrider and Beastmaster. The result is basically what you want (a mounted scouting character... if you space out those WPO levels you can keep your hide and move silently decent, and apply those skills to your mount). Plus, it can fight damn well. At least, your dog can. The halfling on top is mostly there to provide a little archery support carry stuff, as well as providing an observer when scouting. You may want to drop Ride By Attack and Spirited Charge for Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot if you prefer.

If you're really set on the Scout class, you'll need to beg your DM to let Skirmish work while mounted, and still jump into WPO for the ability to use your skill ranks in place of your mount's hide and move silently ranks.

JaronK

paigeoliver
2007-01-18, 08:26 AM
You only have a penalty on a full attack if the mount double moves or runs, unless they have changed the rule in the last month or two. I have been playing a mounted archer in RPGA games for a couple years (super rules lawyer heavy environment), so I am fairly up on those rules. The SRD which normally incorporates errata gives these rules.

You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a -4 penalty on the attack roll (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#attackRoll). You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed), at a -8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullAttack) with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#moveActions) normally




Let me address this point. Someone else will be along shortly to talk about the others.

You can take a single move and fire once with your bow with no penalty. If you want to make a full attack you have to shoot while moving and must take the -4 penalty.

You should read the Rules of the Game articles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/)about mounts on WotC's site. Here is the first one:
Rules of the Game - All About Mounts (Part One) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a)

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-01-18, 08:45 AM
You only have a penalty on a full attack if the mount double moves or runs, unless they have changed the rule in the last month or two. I have been playing a mounted archer in RPGA games for a couple years (super rules lawyer heavy environment), so I am fairly up on those rules. The SRD which normally incorporates errata gives these rules.


You take a penalty if you attack while moving.

If you are full attacking and your mount is moving (even if only using a move action) you will be attacking during at least a part of the move.

It is pretty clear from the rules you quoted (and the following part about spells) that you can only take actions without penalties if you use a standard action either before or after your mount has made a single move.

This is further supported by the Rules of the Game article i linked earlier.

Matthew
2007-01-18, 10:27 AM
I think you are wrong on this one Silvanos:

Rules of the Game - All About Mounts Part Four




Full-Round Actions
As with standard actions, you can sometimes perform a full-round action while your mount moves. Other times, your mount's movement interferes with the full-round action, especially when you have to be someplace in particular to perform the action. If a full-round action is shown on Table 8-2 but not included here, you can perform it from a moving mount. You complete the action after the mount completes its movement for the turn. Some full-round actions require some additional notes:


Full Melee Attack: A moving mount usually keeps you from using the full attack action for melee attacks (http://javascript<b></b>:autoGlossaryWindow('Glossary_dnd_meleeattack')) because you spend part of your turn just moving along with your mount. You can make a full melee attack while mounted, however, if your mount moves no more than 5 feet during the turn. The rules don't say so, but common sense dictates that 5 feet of movement in this case constitutes a 5-foot step (http://javascript<b></b>:autoGlossaryWindow('Glossary_dnd_5footstep')). If your mount uses the minimum movement rule to move 5 feet though (see page 149 in the Player's Handbook), the best you can manage on the same round (http://javascript<b></b>:autoGlossaryWindow('Glossary_dnd_round')) is a single melee attack.


Full Ranged Attack: You can make a full ranged attack from your moving mount. If your mount makes a single move, you make all your ranged attacks either before or after the movement, and the rules assume your mount is stationary when you shoot. If your mount makes a double move, you can still make a full ranged attack, but you're shooting while the mount is moving and you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll (http://javascript<b></b>:autoGlossaryWindow('Glossary_dnd_attackroll')). If your mount runs, you take a -8 penalty on ranged attacks. In either case, you make all your attack rolls when your mount has completed half its movement for the turn.


Rules of the Game – All About Mounts 1 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a)
Rules of the Game – All About Mounts 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a)
Rules of the Game – All About Mounts 3 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050208a)
Rules of the Game – All About Mounts 4 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050215a)
Rules of the Game – All About Mounts 5 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050222a)

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-01-18, 10:43 AM
I think you are wrong on this one Silvanos:


It most certainly looks like it.
That is a bit inconsistent :smallannoyed:

I apologize paigeoliver. :smallredface:

Lord Xaedien
2007-01-18, 11:39 AM
Alot of good suggestions here... if you were a DM and you were going to look at allowing skirmish while mounted, what rules might you attach to it to balance it out? I mean, it seems incredibly stupid to me that outmaneuvering someone on a horse wouldn't allow you to see weak spots in defenses, but at the same time just allowing skirmish on a horse allows for a full attack... is there a comparable way to get a full attack off with skirmish while not mounted? That might be a good thing to look at in terms of balance.

Person_Man
2007-01-18, 11:41 AM
Scouts don't get their Skirmish bonus when mounted. The Comp Adventurer errata (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) is very clear on it:


Page 11: Scout’s Class Skills
Add Disable Device to the scout’s list of class skills. (This addition fits with the flavor of the class.)

Page 12: Skirmish (class feature)
The second sentence of the skirmish class feature should read as follows: She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet away from where she was at the start of her turn. The extra damage applies only to attacks made after the scout has moved at least 10 feet. The skirmish ability cannot be used while mounted.

This update should be made wherever the skirmish ability description is presented (see also pages 31, 56, and 177).Being mounted also synergizes poorly with their Fast Movement and Tumble ability. So no Mounted Scout build makes any sense.

Try a Marshal or Ranger if you're interested in a Skillful mounted combat build.

Matthew
2007-01-18, 11:54 AM
Alot of good suggestions here... if you were a DM and you were going to look at allowing skirmish while mounted, what rules might you attach to it to balance it out? I mean, it seems incredibly stupid to me that outmaneuvering someone on a horse wouldn't allow you to see weak spots in defenses, but at the same time just allowing skirmish on a horse allows for a full attack... is there a comparable way to get a full attack off with skirmish while not mounted? That might be a good thing to look at in terms of balance.

To be honest, it would probably be no big deal allowing Skirmish to work whilst mounted. The benefits are pretty poor to begin with, +5D6 and +5 AC. By the time the Scout is Level 20 you are still only talking about a +15/+10/+5 Attack Routine or +13/+13/+8/+3 with Rapid Shot. Unmounted or Mounted and with Greater Many Shot, a Scout 20 has an Attack Routine of +9/+9/+9 as a Standard Action.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-01-18, 12:05 PM
... but at the same time just allowing skirmish on a horse allows for a full attack... is there a comparable way to get a full attack off with skirmish while not mounted? That might be a good thing to look at in terms of balance.

You should also note that there is not much difference between making a melee attack mounted or unmounted in terms of the distance you are allowed to move.


...
If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack.
...

JaronK
2007-01-18, 01:59 PM
Honestly, if I were making a house rule on this subject, I'd just let the Scout skirmish at will. Scouts are weak in combat... seriously so. When they're shooting, they can always take Greater Manyshot and get full attacks with Skirmish anyway (it's one of the few ways to make a combat effective Scout, and it's still not that great), and I'd expect them to do the same when mounted, so it's not a big power difference at all.

JaronK

its_all_ogre
2007-01-18, 02:50 PM
personally i would see if the dm will let you play a centaur.
then you can be a scout and get all the abilities of the class, backed up with full bab from the centaur HD. you also gain +8 str +4 dex & con. and darkvision, losing only 6 levels for it.
some would say its not worth it, but it could work out good fun

paigeoliver
2007-01-18, 11:32 PM
There are a ton of abuses you can come up with if scouts can skirmish while mounted. You can squeeze one or more D6 damage into the already insane damage possible with lance charge builds. It would just about double the damage output of archer characters.

Ramza00
2007-01-18, 11:47 PM
JaronK I don't know if this is what the Char Ops board did to get a Dragon as its mount, but there is two ways that I know you can do it. One is to take the Draconic Cohort feat, which works like Leadership but you don't get the followers, instead you can subtract 3 from the ECL so you get a better dragon. Can't apply paladin bonuses to the Draconic Cohort. The other option is the Dragon Steed feat, which allows you to select from a list of Dragons that can be your steed, as you advance you can upgrade to a different dragon or you can advance HDs and something.

Ramza00
2007-01-18, 11:54 PM
Forgot to mention both feats are in the Draconomicon

Ramza00
2007-01-19, 12:44 AM
After about 10 mins of google looking, I found the thread you were talking about Jaron.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=382372

paigeoliver
2007-01-19, 01:10 AM
The Dragonlance book also has a prestige class that gets a dragon mount/cohort. Stack that with the Draconic cohort feat to really drop the EL of the cohort.

Ramza00
2007-01-19, 01:42 AM
I am really sorry for the threadjacking I am. Hopefully this is the last one.

Jaron you don't need Ranger to meet the prerequisites of Devoted Tracker, Devoted Trackers requirements are Track, Smite Evil, and Wild Empathy. You get Wild Empathy from Beastmaster 1, and you can take Track as a feat (ranger just gives it to you for free). Beastmaster only requires Handle Animal 8, Survival 4, and Skillfocus Handle Animal. Paladin has Handle Animal as a class skill and you can buy the other cross class, thus he can qualify at level 5 let alone level 6. Halfling Outriders pre-reqs have some skills but they are so minor, it is the feats that is major.

Halfling Outrider requires 2 feats, Beasmaster 1, and Devoted Tracker takes 1 plus a pre-requisite feat if you don't take Ranger 1. This is 5 feats, 4 if you take Ranger. If you can't take flaws take the Ranger build, if you can take flaws don't take the Ranger Build.

Matthew
2007-01-19, 06:33 AM
There are a ton of abuses you can come up with if scouts can skirmish while mounted. You can squeeze one or more D6 damage into the already insane damage possible with lance charge builds. It would just about double the damage output of archer characters.

I presume you mean before Greater Many Shot?

paigeoliver
2007-01-19, 08:17 AM
It would still be better than greater manyshot. A good archer is launching two more arrows than a manyshotting archer is (the rapid shot arrow and the haste arrow). Plus being able to decide where each arrow goes AFTER seeing the result of the last one is quite a bit better as well.

Plus he wouldn't have to waste feats on manyshot and greater manyshot.


I presume you mean before Greater Many Shot?

Rigeld2
2007-01-19, 08:32 AM
you also gain +8 str +4 dex & con. and darkvision, losing only 6 levels for it.
some would say its not worth it, but it could work out good fun
Sure it could be fun, but losing 1/3 of your pre-epic progression isnt efficient or worth it in many cases.

If you want to, try it, but its going to suck compared to even a CW Samurai.

Ramza00
2007-01-19, 08:47 AM
JaronK just a note, I now see why you thought you needed the level of ranger for skills. Crystal Keep did a misprint, it should be Survival 4, not Survival 8

Matthew
2007-01-19, 09:49 AM
It would still be better than greater manyshot. A good archer is launching two more arrows than a manyshotting archer is (the rapid shot arrow and the haste arrow). Plus being able to decide where each arrow goes AFTER seeing the result of the last one is quite a bit better as well.

Plus he wouldn't have to waste feats on manyshot and greater manyshot.

Hmmn. True, forgot about the Weapons of Speed aspect.

Scout 20

Full Attack [+13 / +13 / +13 / +8 / +3]
Standard Attack [+9 / +9 / +9].

Still, it's not too amazing and he still has to fork out for Greater Many Shot when not mounted.

Ramza00
2007-01-19, 02:05 PM
One advantage the scout greater manyshot has over the rapidshot non scout archer is that if the scout is able to get access to a permanent flying wings, he can qualify for flyby attack allowing him to shoot greater manyshot twice in one round (flyby attack allows you to take a standarad action as part of a move action in addition to your traditional standard action, yes its damn good). Combine with the splitting enchantment and that is alot of arrows.

Raptoran "winged elves" are a flying race that has a 0 level adjustment, they are located in races of the wild. Raptorans are also avaliable free as an excerpt here.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050106b&page=1 Raptoran race
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050204a&page=1 Day in the life of a Raptoran

If you have access to Savage Species there is also the winged template you can add to any race. It is +2 LA but it gives you flying, manueverbility based off your Dex, and +4 Dex +2 Wis. With LA buyback rules 2 LA whose effects are very little at higher levels isn't much if you consider the fact it doubles your number of attacks

The nice thing about the new complete scoundrel swift hunter feat is now a skirmisher can have near full bab and thus he gets 33% more arrows.

Pure Scout gets off 6 arrows with skirmish damage, increased to 12 via splitting enchantment per round
Scout4/Ranger 16 gets of 8 arrows with skirmish damage, multiplied to 16 per round.

A person on horseback with 15 bab gets 5 arrows per round, 3+1 haste+1 rapid shot,(without skirmish damage unless DM houserules), 10 fired with splittin enchantment
A person on horseback with 19 bab (or 20) gets 6 arrows per round, 4+1 haste+1 rapid shot (without skirmish damage unless DM houserules), increased to 12 via splitting enchantment

Thus with some careful planning and if you don't care about the race you can fire as many arrows as a person on horseback, more with the latest "power-creep". With careful planning the scout even gets skirmish damage which the horseback rider does not (unless DM houserules it).

Allowing a mounted warrior to get skirmish will just allow the mounted warrior to achieve such heights easier due to the less planning they have to do and the more options for races they can take.

Matthew
2007-01-19, 02:06 PM
I don't think that is what Fly By Attack is supposed to do. You can read it as granting two Standard Actions, but you can also read it as not. The FAQ uses the same odd language to describe Ride By Attack, i.e. 'another action'.

Ramza00
2007-01-19, 02:37 PM
For everybody else so we are on the same page.


Flyby Attack [General]


Prerequisite

Fly speed.
Benefit

When flying, the creature can take a move action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#moveActions) (including a dive) and another standard action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions) at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack.
Normal

Without this feat, the creature takes a standard action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions) either before or after its move.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm

Notice it says another standard action. If the intent was for you to just able to make a standard action inbetween your move before you finish it, it wouldn't need the word another, in fact the intent would be obvious if they didn't add the word another.

Now if there intent was to give the monster an ability to make a standard action as part of a move, and then they still have one standarad action after or before the move, the word another is neccessary.

Let your DM sort out which of the two options is the RAW (Notice I said RAW, if the DM wants to houserule the feat doesn't grant another standard action I hope he is intellectually honest enough to be able to seperate the RAW and what he will allow in his game).

Matthew
2007-01-19, 02:47 PM
Yes, the FAQ also uses the same language:




Suppose you have a flying mount: a griffon. What do
you have to do to use the ride-by tactic in the air or in
swooping down on a target? Do you need to take the Flyby
Attack feat? Or does the Ride-By Attack feat cover flying
mounts as well? For the mount to make a single attack
when riding or flying by, does it also need to somehow gain
a feat? If so, which one?
If the example rider wants to make attacks while flying by
foes, she needs the Ride-By Attack feat and needs to charge
(and fly) in a straight line (see the next question). For the
mount to attack in the same situation, it would need the Flyby
Attack feat. The rider’s Ride-By Attack feat won’t help the
mount attack, and the mount’s Flyby Attack feat does not help
the rider attack.
Note that you have to have a fly speed to take the Flyby
Attack feat. If you merely ride a flying mount, you don’t meet
the prerequisite for the feat. If you can meet the prerequisite,
your flying mount still doesn’t benefit from your Flyby Attack
feat (although it’s possible that a feat or class feature might
allow you to share the feat).


With the rules erratum that prohibits overruns as part
of a charge, the Ride-By Attack feat is now nearly useless.
You must use the charge action to use the Ride-By Attack
feat, and that requires you to travel in a straight line
toward your target. Using the example in the Player’s
Handbook, this would appear to rather specifically mean
along a line from your entire square (or squares if riding a
horse or other mount with a space of 10 feet or greater), to
the target square. Ride-By Attack allows you to continue
moving along the straight line of the charge after your
attack. This would have to mean that at some point you
would enter the square (or squares) of the creature you
attacked. (At least I cannot conceive of any other way it
could be done). Since you cannot enter your foe’s space
unless the creature is already dead, Ride-By Attack is now
pretty much useless if you can’t also overrun the foe. Some
have suggested that you could charge in a manner that
would not bring you through the target creature’s square
(or squares). To do so, you would not be charging directly
toward the target and likely not moving by the shortest
route (also a charge requirement) or attacking it from the
first possible square (another charge requirement). In any
of these cases, you would be breaking the rules for a charge.
Am I wrong about any of this?
No, you’ve got it about right.
When using the Ride-By attack feat, you must conduct your
charge so that you move in a straight line toward the closest
square from which it is possible to attack your chosen foe, so
long as it is a square that allows you to attack and then continue
on in the straight line of the charge. You still must attack your
foe the moment you reach that square. (Although the feat
description doesn’t say so, you and your mount also must move
at least 5 feet after you make your attack to get the benefit of
the feat.) This is a special rule for charging when using the
Ride-By Attack feat. Note that the Flyby Attack feat (discussed
in the previous question) does not require you to move in a
straight line. You merely make a single move and take another
standard action at some point during that move.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-01-19, 02:56 PM
The wording is not clear I will give you that much.

I think the word another was intended to make it clear that the standard action performed was not part of the move, but a separate action you have to use, thus using both your available actions for that round.
The description stresses this again in the next line.

The wording is direct copy/paste from 3.0 where partial action was replaced with standard action. A move action was a kind of partial action (just like you today can make a move action in place of your standard action), so another refers to another action here.



Flyby Attack[General]

Prerequisite: Fly speed.

Benefit: When flying, the creature can take a move action (including a dive) and another partial action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack.

Normal: Without this feat, the creature takes a partial action either before or after its move.

Ramza00
2007-01-19, 03:41 PM
The wording is not clear I will give you that much.

I think the word another was intended to make it clear that the standard action performed was not part of the move, but a separate action you have to use, thus using both your available actions for that round.
The description stresses this again in the next line.

The wording is direct copy/paste from 3.0 where partial action was replaced with standard action. A move action was a kind of partial action (just like you today can make a move action in place of your standard action), so another refers to another action here.
So in other words bad editing on WOTC part. The RAW of 3.5 is that it gives another action which can be used with Greater Manyshot regardless of there intent was, this is the RAW. But the RAW wasn't there intent. In other words it depends on your DM and what his playing style is like, he would need to do a house rule but it would be a house rule to bring it more closer to the intent. Thanks.

Matthew
2007-01-19, 03:51 PM
The RAW is often clarified and in need of clarification.

Ramza00
2007-01-19, 03:58 PM
The RAW is often clarified and in need of clarification.
The RAW is very rarely clairfied, have you seen WOTC recent erratas, wait there isn't any.

It is in need of clairification!!!

Regardless a DM should try to stick as close to the RAW as possible, if something is out of rack he should houserule it, but make it obvious its a houserule, instead of doing a dubious well I think the text means this, when he really is trying to pull a spin job. Players should also be open to houserules if they are reasonable, and they shouldn't try to break the game or destabilize the power curve.

Matthew
2007-01-19, 04:20 PM
I didn't say anything about errata with regard to clarification. The FAQ clarifies most issues. The last errata to be issued was some six months ago, but that hardly matters. What I was saying, I said to support your contention. No doubt a future FAQ will address this.

Even so, you can interpret that particular Feat any way you choose. I would not interpret it as allowing two Standard Actions, nor would I consider either be non RAW.

JaronK
2007-01-19, 05:58 PM
JaronK just a note, I now see why you thought you needed the level of ranger for skills. Crystal Keep did a misprint, it should be Survival 4, not Survival 8

I was aware of the requirements, however getting the necessary skills for both Beastmaster and Halfling Outrider in time required either taking Ranger, or cross classing most of your skillpoints away, burning a feat on Track, and then taking two levels of Beastmaster. Since the end result is the same either way as far as the mount is concerned, I opted for ranger for more skill points and the free feat.

JaronK