[PF] Hydraulic Maneuver, is it worth the feat

[Arutema]

So i got myself an undine boon for PFS, and was considerign buildign a sorcerer, watersinger bard, or possibly shaman using this feat to get a little extra utility from my low-level spells. First, its rules text:


Prerequisites: Hydraulic push spell-like ability, undine.

Benefit: You may use hydraulic push to attempt a bull rush, disarm, dirty trick (blind or dazzle), or trip combat maneuver. Each time you use hydraulic push, you must decide which of the allowed combat maneuvers you want to perform. You may use this feat with your hydraulic push racial spell-like ability, your class-granted use of hydraulic push, or any hydraulic push spells you cast, but not with magic items or other external sources that use that spell.

Normal: Hydraulic push can only be used to make a bull rush combat maneuver.


But I'm wondering: is it worth the feat tax. Even if I use a bloodline and Varisian tattoo to scale up its CL, will it keep up with the CMD of high-level enemies?

[Spore]

Not worth it, because it's limited to 1/day.

[Arutema]

The racial SLA is, but the feat applies to any Hydraulic Push spell you cast, and you can get it on the Wizard/Sorcerer, Bard (with a racial archetype) and Shaman lists.

[avr]

Caster level + casting stat bonus alone doesn't scale enough to keep up with high level enemies, no. Enemies get BAB + STR bonus + DEX bonus at a minimum, with the possibility of feats or various other bonuses, and it's not uncommon to get their BAB higher than your character level. Melee combat maneuver characters need to invest a bunch of feats and items to catch up, and at first glance I don't think any of these would apply to your sorcerer or whatever.

[Hytheter]

Caster level + casting stat bonus alone doesn't scale enough to keep up with high level enemies, no. Enemies get BAB + STR bonus + DEX bonus at a minimum, with the possibility of feats or various other bonuses, and it's not uncommon to get their BAB higher than your character level. Melee combat maneuver characters need to invest a bunch of feats and items to catch up, and at first glance I don't think any of these would apply to your sorcerer or whatever.

Actually, that makes me wonder. I don't think it'd be worth the feat investment (not to mention Ability requirements), but I can't think of any (RAW) reason why Improved Bull Rush and what not shouldn't apply to Hydraulic Push. They just say that they give you a bonus to the relevant Maneuver check. Hydraulic Push is a maneuver check, even if its somewhat atypical.

Honestly, I'd really like to see some way to make the OP's feat work because it just seems too cool not too.

[avr]

Actually, that makes me wonder. I don't think it'd be worth the feat investment (not to mention Ability requirements), but I can't think of any (RAW) reason why Improved Bull Rush and what not shouldn't apply to Hydraulic Push. They just say that they give you a bonus to the relevant Maneuver check. Hydraulic Push is a maneuver check, even if its somewhat atypical.

Honestly, I'd really like to see some way to make the OP's feat work because it just seems too cool not too.
You might be right. I was initially turned off by the bit which read "Your CMB for this bull rush is equal to your caster level plus your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier, whichever is highest." which seemed to exclude other modifiers, but when I compared it to the standard text on combat maneuvers the CMB doesn't include a bunch of attack roll modifiers which get added in later. So, feats probably do give bonuses tho' magic equipment still generally won't apply.