gestalt//non-gestalt

[Somensjev]

how would you run a party with both gestalt and non-gestalt characters?

would a 20 x//y be approximately the same as a 40 z

i'm asking if it would be viable for you to run either the gestalt at 1/2x exp, or run the non-gestalt at 2x exp

or maybe give them different arrays? (or different ways to roll stats?)

just curious if it's plausible or not
if so, then answers to my many questions are appreciated
if not, just drop in and say why

any and all answers are appreciated

[Hytheter]

A gestalt class is nowhere near twice as good as a single class. In fact, some Gestalt/Builds are probably beaten by certain single classes (Wizards...). So no, 20 x//y is not approximately the same as 40 z. The Z would have twice as many hit die, twice as many feats etc and just generally be way, waaaay more powerful.

[Darth Stabber]

The difference is not as big as you might think, especially depending on what classes get mixed. A fighter//rogue and a wizard in the same party at medium or higher optimization is unlikely to be a big problem. The difference is certainly not twice the level, any more 3 levels of difference is likely due to optimization differences as opposed to gestalt vs. regular. Keep in mind that gestalt characters are getting the better halves of two classes, not two classes. If the gestalted characters are in lower tiered classes and the ungestalted are in higher tier classes you can have then at the same level and it will probably work out just fine, assuming similar optimization.

[hymer]

I usually run gestalt characters as between one and not quite two levels behind the non-gestalts, and it seems to work. As has been pointed out, gestalt really isn't that powerful. It's what you put in it, the player's ability and the power of the build.

[ExcessiveFarce]

Gestalt characters get their primary advantage in breadth rather than depth. They'll be good at a lot more things than a standard character, but for a specific task they're typically only marginally better than a standard character.

I'd advise against running a gestalt character in parties that are not exclusively made up of gestalt characters, but you're certainly welcome to give it a shot. I'm just hazarding a guess here, but going with rules similar to bloodlines would probably be appropriate as opposed to a flat level adjustment or experience bonus/penalty.

Maybe 1st "bloodline LA" by ECL 4, 2nd by ECL 10, 3rd by ECL 16 would do it-- you could always adjust things after a session or two if his relative power level seems to be too disparate from that of his companions. The thing to remember is that the strongest classes (spellcasters) are hurt disproportionately by level adjustments, so if your player is gestalting noncasters you may find that a reduced or nonexistent adjustment would be more appropriate.

[Somensjev]

lots of helpful advice

so, as far as i can tell it's approximately 18 x//y = 20 z (is that right?)

and i started at double because i figured it's best to start ridiculously far apart and work down

[Fouredged Sword]

Another thought is that some people have tried out tier based rules, where tier 1 classes get no gestalt, tier 2 get gestalted with an NPC or tier 5 class, and tier 3 get gestalted with a tier 4.

This generally plays well with everyone on the same levels.

[Somensjev]

Another thought is that some people have tried out tier based rules, where tier 1 classes get no gestalt, tier 2 get gestalted with an NPC or tier 5 class, and tier 3 get gestalted with a tier 4.

This generally plays well with everyone on the same levels.

i've seen this before, and while it seems great, it isn't what i was looking for

you see, i'm thinking of making a campaign, and 1/1000 people with an 18 or higher in a mental stat at first level is gestalt, i was thinking that they are those chosen by the gods (yes, plural. as in, all of them) to aspire to great things

i'm going to run all my campaigns irl in this world with the chosen people, and every player, at character creation may choose to roll 3d10 and a certain combination (only one combination) will mean they get to be gestalt at the expense of 1-2 levels (depending on the classes they choose)

i still haven't thought of the number

[Fouredged Sword]

Really, I recommend taking randomness out of character creation unless your players specifically like building characters that are outside their norms. I would ether make the whole party chosen by the gods, or not. That way the party itself would be balanced within itself, and you wouldn't have to worry about fake LA or such.

If someone really wants to play a normal, then they should play a X // Expert.

[Somensjev]

Really, I recommend taking randomness out of character creation unless your players specifically like building characters that are outside their norms. I would ether make the whole party chosen by the gods, or not. That way the party itself would be balanced within itself, and you wouldn't have to worry about fake LA or such.

If someone really wants to play a normal, then they should play a X // Expert.

my players love random/stupid/suicidal things, especially when it involves magic, or divinity

[Fouredged Sword]

Ok, then. Not my cup of tea, but more power to you.

If you are doing this with randomness, what I would do is key secondary classes to the various gods, then dole them out on a semi random basis. They make a character, assign stats, then BOOM, this god chose you. You are gestalted with WARMAGE now! +2 int and Cha, eat 2 LA. What you gonna do about it!

[Somensjev]

Ok, then. Not my cup of tea, but more power to you.

If you are doing this with randomness, what I would do is key secondary classes to the various gods, then dole them out on a semi random basis. They make a character, assign stats, then BOOM, this god chose you. You are gestalted with WARMAGE now! +2 int and Cha, eat 2 LA. What you gonna do about it!

that would work, but i will always allow my players the choice, i say that their god (or which ever god chose them) has given them two options and they must decide (gestalt/non-gestalt)

[bekeleven]

Aah yes, the old "widening the gaps between the haves and have-nots" character creation. Perhaps you should give World of Synnibar (http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_4762.html) a try sometime.1


Character creation is about what you'd expect - you roll a 20-sided dice, then reroll the two lowest scores so that they're higher than the lowest score you rolled in the first place. Obviously, character attributes are going to be heavily weighted in the direction of 20, which then leads me to wonder why McCracken didn't just have the players roll 1d10 10. The answer would be, after a weighty pause, "These go to eleven." If you happen to roll five twenties in a row, you're "immortal-born", and gain a new variety of powerful bonuses, including extra protection and a boatload of extra strength. Twinky? Damn straight.

The character class selection. Oh, God, the character class selection. The first method involves rolling a d20 to select three character classes at random, and then checking to see if your character attributes measure up - except that almost all of them demand at least three attributes that are higher than seventeen. The Psielf, for example, demands scores of 18, 19, 19, and 20, which is going to demand some pretty good dice-rolling. The Bio-Syntha Cyborg demands that you roll at least three twenties, which is kind of like creating a class that only the One True King of the Munchkins can access. This is astonishingly stupid, because it basically inverts the usual power balance; rather than giving non-human or non-standard characters substantial penalties to make them on the same level as normal PCs, like the other Fera in Werewolf, or the various arcane character classes in Deadlands, McCracken demands that cyborg characters pass a high standard to simulate the high abilities of cyborgs. In other words, if you want to play somebody special, then it demands pure luck, not any particular skill in dealing with challenges.

1: No, not really. Duh.

[Somensjev]

it was originally meant to be an NPC thing (every so often a chosen one appears, yadda, yadda), but i don't like giving my NPC's something i don't give my PC's

and i'm not certain all of my PC's would enjoy being gestalt, so i can't just make it a gestalt game