Keep PC's where I want them. (New DM)

[sjeshin]

Hi guys. I'm a new DM. I've played for quite some time, and I have a pretty good handle on the rules for most things, or at least know where to look them up. What I do not have is experience in directing game flow. I don't lead my PC's by the nose, but I do like to keep them from wandering into their deaths because they fought the BBEG too soon. I need some help keeping them out of the BBEG's hideout in a cave, in a nearby mountain range before it's time to go stomping in on him.

For some helpful information, they are in a large forested area. The only town is a small frontier town. The PC's aren't aware but a strange ritual is being used to afflict the entire area. It's a curse I suppose. Any living creature inside the area must make a DC 14 will save each day, or have their attitude adjusted negatively by one level for every single person they meet. This includes the many animals that are now hostile, the main draw for them to enter the town, and stay inside the town for the little adventure I had for them to start leveling them up / give them some RP experience (We started at lvl 1, two wolves almost took them out).

The BBEG and his minions are the source of this, but no one in the party / town knows about him, his minions, or even the ritual (yet). They know there is a large enchantmant effect in the area via detect magic. They just finished a small side adventure and are going to be level 2. I have some more plans for them including random encounters in the woods, by a nearby river, and a small grove that a druid protects. The problem is the mountain range hideout is only an 8 hour trek through the forest, and the BBEG is lvl 5 with some minions of lvl 3 and so on. This last fight is supposed to be TOUGH for a lvl 5 group since he will be a prepared cleric with undead minions. I need to keep them out of the mountain range without "rocks were there, now they are gone, and you can get into the mounts."

My players and I are experienced players, we only started this low because I'm not an experienced DM. How do I let them loose into the woods and somehow have a failsafe to deny them access to the caves? Is it feasible?

[claypigeons]

"We're sorry Adventurers, but your BBEG is in another cave complex."

Hide the cave entrance(s) behind illusions.

Make them work for it... if they want a clue as to whete it is, they have to do a quest. If you want them to stay away from the bad guy, don't tell them there is a bad guy near by.

Make another dungeon. An abandoned mine filled with kobolds. Gives the players a dungeon crawl, and lets the chracters have a chance at some XP.

[sjeshin]

"We're sorry Adventurers, but your BBEG is in another cave complex."

Hide the cave entrance(s) behind illusions.

Make them work for it... if they want a clue as to whete it is, they have to do a quest. If you want them to stay away from the bad guy, don't tell them there is a bad guy near by.

Make another dungeon. An abandoned mine filled with kobolds. Gives the players a dungeon crawl, and lets the chracters have a chance at some XP.

Well the BBEG is not an illusion type, nor his minions. I suppose I could change that, but then that affects them as well when they try to find him when they need to. They will know there are 5 sites they have to find / stop after the first site is found. I'm just trying to avoid them randomly picking the caves to explore in the first place, and getting hammed up. Maybe I'm trying too hard here, I'm not even sure what i'm looking for.

Maybe I should just have the first clue point anywhere but there? These guys solved (without any real metagaming I could spot or even suspect) the first "mystery" way ahead of schedule. I'm trying to get ahead of them on this one without the "oops wrong cave." I appreciate the approach, but this group loves the suspension of disbelief. They want to feel immersed into the story. So much so that they aren't even all T1's and they didn't even fight the first BBEG. They had the village captain of the guard take him out through diplomacy, bluff, and personal investigation (despite the ritual making the captain unfriendly!).

[Yuki Akuma]

Schroedinger's campaign world: everywhere the characters go they happen to find level-appropriate encounters.

Alternatively: "Hey guys could you not go to this place yet, please."

[Neknoh]

Don't mention the looming shadow of the mountqins riddled with caves.
Do mention the ruccus from behind a small hill, old miningcarts tipped over and kobold tracks.

Make it wnticing to go where you want them to go, make other places seem dull and boring.

[ArmoredSandwich]

Maybe set a really though random encounter along the way so they know they should level/train before they even dare to go near the caverns.

It should function as a sign saying: you are not yet strong enough to survive in this environment.

[Dawgmoah]

Hi guys. I'm a new DM. I've played for quite some time, and I have a pretty good handle on the rules for most things, or at least know where to look them up. What I do not have is experience in directing game flow. I don't lead my PC's by the nose, but I do like to keep them from wandering into their deaths because they fought the BBEG too soon. I need some help keeping them out of the BBEG's hideout in a cave, in a nearby mountain range before it's time to go stomping in on him.

For some helpful information, they are in a large forested area. The only town is a small frontier town. The PC's aren't aware but a strange ritual is being used to afflict the entire area. It's a curse I suppose. Any living creature inside the area must make a DC 14 will save each day, or have their attitude adjusted negatively by one level for every single person they meet. This includes the many animals that are now hostile, the main draw for them to enter the town, and stay inside the town for the little adventure I had for them to start leveling them up / give them some RP experience (We started at lvl 1, two wolves almost took them out).

The BBEG and his minions are the source of this, but no one in the party / town knows about him, his minions, or even the ritual (yet). They know there is a large enchantmant effect in the area via detect magic. They just finished a small side adventure and are going to be level 2. I have some more plans for them including random encounters in the woods, by a nearby river, and a small grove that a druid protects. The problem is the mountain range hideout is only an 8 hour trek through the forest, and the BBEG is lvl 5 with some minions of lvl 3 and so on. This last fight is supposed to be TOUGH for a lvl 5 group since he will be a prepared cleric with undead minions. I need to keep them out of the mountain range without "rocks were there, now they are gone, and you can get into the mounts."

My players and I are experienced players, we only started this low because I'm not an experienced DM. How do I let them loose into the woods and somehow have a failsafe to deny them access to the caves? Is it feasible?

1) Have a more experienced NPC party get blasted by the bad guy and his minions. One or two survivors crawl into town. Sitting down on the corner stool the fellow tells the new kids how dangerous things are and how unprepared they look. He may be able to help....

2) Detour, detour, and more detours can be put in their way. Be it a young farm girl trying to catch a goat, to a wagon throwing a wheel. Some low level monster or two threatening some poor npc with death, dismemberment, or more.

3) They gain the hostility of Guido, the local bully, when one of the players smiles at his woman. Guido and his band of thugs wait to ambush the party, or break into their rooms, etc ,etc.

If all else fails its been raining a lot in the highlands and the one river crossing heading in that direction is washed out... And look, is that a body along side the river? And what does he have in his pocketss?

[Tragak]

Hi guys. I'm a new DM. I've played for quite some time, and I have a pretty good handle on the rules for most things, or at least know where to look them up. What I do not have is experience in directing game flow. I don't lead my PC's by the nose, but I do like to keep them from wandering into their deaths because they fought the BBEG too soon. I need some help keeping them out of the BBEG's hideout in a cave, in a nearby mountain range before it's time to go stomping in on him.

For some helpful information, they are in a large forested area. The only town is a small frontier town. The PC's aren't aware but a strange ritual is being used to afflict the entire area. It's a curse I suppose. Any living creature inside the area must make a DC 14 will save each day, or have their attitude adjusted negatively by one level for every single person they meet. This includes the many animals that are now hostile, the main draw for them to enter the town, and stay inside the town for the little adventure I had for them to start leveling them up / give them some RP experience (We started at lvl 1, two wolves almost took them out).

The BBEG and his minions are the source of this, but no one in the party / town knows about him, his minions, or even the ritual (yet). They know there is a large enchantmant effect in the area via detect magic. They just finished a small side adventure and are going to be level 2. I have some more plans for them including random encounters in the woods, by a nearby river, and a small grove that a druid protects. The problem is the mountain range hideout is only an 8 hour trek through the forest, and the BBEG is lvl 5 with some minions of lvl 3 and so on. This last fight is supposed to be TOUGH for a lvl 5 group since he will be a prepared cleric with undead minions. I need to keep them out of the mountain range without "rocks were there, now they are gone, and you can get into the mounts."

My players and I are experienced players, we only started this low because I'm not an experienced DM. How do I let them loose into the woods and somehow have a failsafe to deny them access to the caves? Is it feasible? Decide that the BBEG is somewhere else for that day. If you don't want the PCs to fight him yet, then only have there be minions for them to fight.

Even when the BBEG finds out that he has a new enemy (the PCs that attacked his minions), have him be so busy with ritual preparations that he can't afford to hunt the PCs himself, thus requiring that he send more minions after them.

Whatever he needs to do that the PCs are trying to stop, find excuses for them to attack his plan until they can attack him personally.

Don't play it like a video game: Giving the players a goal that they are too low-level to accomplish, and then have them go about completely unrelated side-quests (killing random kobolds, looting random caves...) until they've level-grinded their way to their real objective.

Play it like a movie: Help the players come up with an ultimate goal that they can't complete yet, and have them work on smaller parts of the same goal (attacking the BBEG's allies and minions, freeing his captives, stealing/destroying his supplies...) until they are experienced enough to have a chance at the finishing blow.

The story, characters, and setting are slaves to the DM and players. Not the other way around.

If you - personally, consciously, and deliberately - came up with the BBEG, and you don't think that the PCs can deal with him yet, then you can also - just as easily - come up with something else that they can deal with in the meantime.

[WbtE]

Maybe set a really though random encounter along the way so they know they should level/train before they even dare to go near the caverns.

It should function as a sign saying: you are not yet strong enough to survive in this environment.

This kind of solution is the best, and a thoroughly plausible one (the villain has set up a lair in inaccessible wild country, or perhaps even invested in guardians). If you start using fiat to preserve "a good game" you'll soon have no game at all, just a collection of whatever the DM likes.

Should the PCs persist in a death march through tough encounters, you could pause and offer them impartial advice of the kind, "Listen, are you expecting things to get easier up here?" But ultimately, its the players' job to keep their characters alive, not yours.

[zlefin]

There's always the talk to your players approach.
Let them go in the forest, and if they try to go in the cave, just tell them they get a really bad feeling. If they insist or question that, then honestly tell them the bbeg is too strong for them yet and you didn't know how to keep them away.


edit:
also, having a powerful guard near the entrance or just inside could work, it would have orders to stay on the entrance and not get pulled away, so they can run if the fight turns bad. If its' put in a place where it can't be readily hit by ranged fire, then it can't get pulled out of its location.

[Jergmo]

Whilst the Big Bad Evil Guy and His/Her Dragon are away, the Quirky Miniboss Squad of escalating encounter appropriateness oversee the mountain range...

Also, a focus in illusions isn't necessary to hide one's lair - any fledgling villain would find an item that produces illusory terrain useful. There's also mundane camouflage/stonework. Maybe the villain hired a few duergar to design a concealed entrance. This also provides opportunities for different types of minions or perhaps a miniboss.

Or perhaps kobolds who designed traps, as mentioned above. It could be a small band of duergar and a clan of kobolds both serve the cult on a mercenary basis and even have a bit of rivalry.

[LadyLexi]

Schroedinger's campaign world: everywhere the characters go they happen to find level-appropriate encounters.

Alternatively: "Hey guys could you not go to this place yet, please."

This.

Never throw an encounter in which the PCs have no chance to win unless you need to for story reasons. Be flexible, be reasonable and remember that just because you imagine your world one way, does not mean that that is how your players imagine the world.

[Jergmo]

I'd like to introduce something else - these guys are right, you should never overwhelm the party... by expecting them to defeat an opponent. However, you don't need to defeat an opponent, you just need to overcome the encounter. You can dissuade your players from going somewhere by having a more powerful monster in the area, and make it clear that the goal is to outwit it or otherwise evade it. They still get XP and they know what they have to overcome to pass, which gives the players an idea of where they need to be, power wise, without directly telling them.

For example, a 1st level party may be chased off from a treasure trove by an ogre. But when they reach 2nd or 3rd level depending on party op, they know that treasure trove is there. Essentially you give them a quest log to keep track of.

[Coidzor]

Ravenloft is great for keeping PCs where you want them. XD

[jedipotter]

The problem is the mountain range hideout is only an 8 hour trek through the forest, and the BBEG is lvl 5 with some minions of lvl 3 and so on. This last fight is supposed to be TOUGH for a lvl 5 group since he will be a prepared cleric with undead minions. I need to keep them out of the mountain range without "rocks were there, now they are gone, and you can get into the mounts."

Sounds like the players and the characters don't even know about the BBEG yet. So they don't know about him or his lair, and are not looking for either. So do they have a reason to just randomly go into the mountains?

1. Move the BBEG. Is there some reason he must be like a day's walk from town?

2. And even if you must have your 'curse effect source' close to town, that need not be the BBEG lair.

3. You can keep the focus elsewhere. Maybe the BBEG has step up a base in the south forest hills. And let the information 'slip'. But the base is just a shell with some undead.