Serini's homeland

[Kish]

I just realized. With all the talk about how the Order is going to somewhere close to the dwarven homeland, to Kraagor's Gate, and what that will mean to Durkon, I haven't seen anyone mention this before.

Kraagor's Gate is, by the terms of Serini's compromise, the closest of the five gates to Serini's homeland. I wonder what, if anything, a potentially sizable halfling presence in the next book will mean to the evolving Belkar.

[Cuthalion]

I just realized. With all the talk about how the Order is going to somewhere close to the dwarven homeland, to Kraagor's Gate, and what that will mean to Durkon, I haven't seen anyone mention this before.

Kraagor's Gate is, by the terms of Serini's compromise, the closest of the five gates to Serini's homeland. I wonder what, if anything, a potentially sizable halfling presence in the next book will mean to the evolving Belkar.

This is a good point. It would be fun to see halflings tromp around all wrapped up... So far, Belkar's interacted with other hobbits quite well though, hasn't he?

[Keltest]

This is a good point. It would be fun to see halflings tromp around all wrapped up... So far, Belkar's interacted with other hobbits quite well though, hasn't he?

The only animosity towards halflings specifically has been directed at his family (perhaps jokingly) and towards those of his home town (again, of debatable seriousness.)

I doubt he will be buddy-buddy with them if for no other reason than his completely opposite personality from the "standard" halfling (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html)

[Jay R]

The only animosity towards halflings specifically has been directed at his family (perhaps jokingly) and towards those of his home town (again, of debatable seriousness.)

I doubt he will be buddy-buddy with them if for no other reason than his completely opposite personality from the "standard" halfling (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html)

I suspect another reason might be the after-party after his high school prom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html).

[Keltest]

I suspect another reason might be the after-party after his high school prom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html).

Yeah, but what are the odds of him running into someone who survived the trauma with enough mental functionality to return to society?

[Lexible]

Kraagor's Gate is, by the terms of Serini's compromise, the closest of the five gates to Serini's homeland. I wonder what, if anything, a potentially sizable halfling presence in the next book will mean to the evolving Belkar.

I like that Belkar is evolving. While I am generally willing to cede that he's a blood-thirsty and callous mass murderer, undoubtedly evil, I also find him sympathetic and hope for his growth towards something more compassionate.

Perhaps my desire for his character to transcend evil have something to do with his early experience with owl's wisdom which, in my view, pathologized that evil (i.e. made it something resulting from a deficiency. . . something that would be difficult to argue when looking at, for example, Tarquin or Xykon).

Perhaps it comes from his expressions of loyalty and love toward Mr. Scruffy coupled with my own feline-orientation.

Judging from the 'Is Belkar CN yet?' comments in the forums, I am not the only one wanting him to grow away from malevolence. I wonder how welcome such an arc would be to the readership in general?

Edit: Also "the angel. . . doesn't work here anymore (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html)" implies that he was not always evil. (And I haven't read SSaDT, so I might be missing some of his backstory that explained that.)

[Crusher]

Yeah, but what are the odds of him running into someone who survived the trauma with enough mental functionality to return to society?

Although... if you read his comments, he's also implying that *other* people were stabbing people in the eyes and Belkar was prevented from participating. That must have been quite the crowd he ran with.

[Jay R]

Yeah, but what are the odds of him running into someone who survived the trauma with enough mental functionality to return to society?

More important, what's the probability that of him running into the relative or friend of somebody who didn't survive, or that the authorities are still looking for him?

[NerdyKris]

The only animosity towards halflings specifically has been directed at his family (perhaps jokingly) and towards those of his home town (again, of debatable seriousness.)

I doubt he will be buddy-buddy with them if for no other reason than his completely opposite personality from the "standard" halfling (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html)

Rich has stated that he was serious, and that these were indications that Belkar is Chaotic Evil.


Then you don't understand the alignment rules at all. A person who commits Evil act after Evil act and no Good acts at all is Evil. Not "Neutral with Evil tendencies," there is no such thing as "tendencies" in the alignment rules. In order to be Neutral you need to either a.) commit no Good or Evil acts at all, or b.) commit a more-or-less equal number of Good and Evil acts. Not c.) commit a boatload of Evil acts without guilt or regret and no Good acts except those he is bullied into.

A partial list of Evil acts Belkar has performed or attempted to perform:
• Harvesting someone's kidneys who was no threat and had a Good alignment.
• Selling an attractive young woman into slavery
• Slitting the throats of helpless people
• Trying to kill an ally strictly to level up
• Killing three barbarians when he only needed to defeat (not kill) one of them
• Professing a desire to go back and kill his family and childhood friends in their sleep
• Throwing daggers at Roy just for fun

Plus countless acts of psychological abuse to his teammates for no reason other than his own amusement. And that doesn't count the 3 or 4 Evil acts from "On the Origin of PCs" that I don't want to list here.

Why on earth do people waste their time with this? I feel now like I could have Belkar turn to the camera and say, "Hey folks, FYI, I'm Chaotic Evil," and then kill and eat a fluffy puppy, and you'd still come here and say, "Well, I think he's Neutral Good."

Get over it, Belkar is Evil.

[Keltest]

Rich has stated that he was serious, and that these were indications that Belkar is Chaotic Evil.

Ok, debate over. he was serious.

[Turgon9357]

I hope we do see such a homeland or some such. I'm interested to see how Rich fits halflings into the larger OOTS universe. Personally, I've always assumed they were in exile after their homeland was ransacked or that they just abandoned it for the more preferable (to them) human lands and cities.

[Ramien]

Why are we expecting this gate to be close to Serini's homeland? There were only 5 gates for 6 adventurers. She may have taken this Gate solely for it's connection to Kraagor, not because it was closer to her homelands. After all, snowy wastes are not really conducive to the standard halfling barefoot lifestyle.

[Kish]

Why are we expecting this gate to be close to Serini's homeland? There were only 5 gates for 6 adventurers.

No, there were five gates for five adventurers. Reread what Serini said: "There's five of us and five of them. We each take the one closest to our homeland."

Unless, unmentioned by Shojo, she traded gates with someone else, the gate at which she built her fortress was the one closest to her homeland. Her proposal said nothing about, "...except me, I get the one closest to Kraagor's homeland instead."

[rodneyAnonymous]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html

Note that the rifts are stationary, and the one nearest her homeland isn't necessarily near her homeland.

[NerdyKris]

Unless her homeland was on the Western continent, it's at least within the top 1/3rd of the continent the story started on. Soon's gate was south. Redmountain was fairly central, and we know that Kraagor's gate was far to the north, on the same continent, according to Redcloak's invasion plans.

In fact, the gates are oddly spaced rather evenly on the two continents.

[Ramien]

No, there were five gates for five adventurers. Reread what Serini said: "There's five of us and five of them. We each take the one closest to our homeland."

Unless, unmentioned by Shojo, she traded gates with someone else, the gate at which she built her fortress was the one closest to her homeland. Her proposal said nothing about, "...except me, I get the one closest to Kraagor's homeland instead."

There were only five of them left after Kraagor died. She did turn her gate into the Kraagor memorial park and wildlife sanctuary, and the fact that every time the gate is mentioned, it's called Kraagor's Gate - even the scrying device to let the other party members know each gate's status has it marked by a K - would indicate that the gate has strong ties to Kraagor.

[Vemynal]

Funny enough, Rich did eventually have to spell out that Belkar is Chaotic Evil, and knows it, in the comic. Back during the Shojo fever dream.

Thog also got a meta shout out during the arena when Tarquin made a joke about how no matter how many horrible things he does he's still a crowd favorite lol.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Unless her homeland was on the Western continent, it's at least within the top 1/3rd of the continent the story started on. Soon's gate was south. Redmountain was fairly central, and we know that Kraagor's gate was far to the north, on the same continent, according to Redcloak's invasion plans.

In fact, the gates are oddly spaced rather evenly on the two continents.
Redmountain was in the North, I'm pretty sure. I don't think there's much specific information about the geography of the Northern lands, actually, but the Redmountain Hills are considered part of the Northern lands for what it's worth. It's difficult to say for sure exactly how evenly spaced the gates are, but considering the relative sizes of the Western and Eastern continents, and the fact that two gates are located on the former, I don't think they're that evenly spaced.

[Lombard]

Well, CE Belkar was either genetically/divinely just going to end up that way, or he's got some deep issues to work out, or some combination of the two, i.e. had some stuff happen that messed with him that wouldn't necessarily have set everyone down that path but it did with him due to his being somewhat predisposed to it.

I'd venture that he can't really make a new start without acknowledging 'the way he was' and drawing a line between past and present. In that event his process would likely be easier if he could come to some understanding about why he was that way; if part of it was, as proposed above, his reaction to some trauma such as "mommy wouldn't give me seconds on figgy pudding" then a trip to/near his homeland might stir his memory in a way that could prove helpful.

[Haldir]

Nobody else recalls that Belkar specifically mentioned during the gladiator sequence that there are no halfling lands.

[Keltest]

Nobody else recalls that Belkar specifically mentioned during the gladiator sequence that there are no halfling lands.

no Halfling lands "here" as in the western continent.

[137beth]

Well, he has been carrying that ring around (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html) for awhile, so he isn't all that unlike other halflings...

[Keltest]

Well, he has been carrying that ring around (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html) for awhile, so he isn't all that unlike other halflings...

Actually, Roy may still have that. We have not seen Belkar make any major leaps since Azure City, while weve seen Roy jump onto the back of a slaver's bug from a fair distance away.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Actually, Roy may still have that. We have not seen Belkar make any major leaps since Azure City, while weve seen Roy jump onto the back of a slaver's bug from a fair distance away.
For Roy to have it, he would have had to acquire it after coming back naked (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0665.html). If Belkar really doesn't have it (even after having three months to swipe it from Roy's corpse), then Haley probably has it.

[angry_bear]

Aside from elves and dwarves no other race has really been given an established homeland exclusive to that race. It could be that races like halflings, gnomes, and even humans don't have an established territory of their own, and only live with other races. Serini could have gotten that gate by default, or requested it in honour of Kraagor.

As far as Belkar's transformation goes, it doesn't mean he's becoming good, or even neutral. You could just as easily make the argument that he's becoming more lawful instead of less evil.

[martianmister]

Aside from elves and dwarves no other race has really been given an established homeland exclusive to that race.

Gnomes have a homeland. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15919361&postcount=24)