Could Laurin be bluffing?

[gellerche]

I really apologize if this has already been brought up in the main thread. If so, mods please close this thread.

Laurin just teleported off the ship after understanding that V could cast spells longer than Laurin could neutralize them, with the implication that she's fleeing the battle. After all the burning of power that she's been doing (and the loss of one of her stones), could she still have it in her to wormhole another army onto the ship? How about just her scarf-wearing sorcerer teammate? (I don't know if wormholes' cost are based on mass going through, or if they're just on/off.)

Note: I'm not saying what should happen as a plot device. After Tarquin pulled that "My hurting you is beyond my control - this is all your fault.", I'm settling back for a large helpin' of Evil Overlord Butt Whuppin'. I'm just asking if this is within her capabilities.

[Bulldog Psion]

It all depends on how many power points she has left. With enough left, it seems like there would be no practical reason to prevent her from using wormhole to bring in new reinforcements of some kind -- army units, Jacinda, Shoulder Pad Guy, a restored Miron, etc.

Probably, it won't happen, but it doesn't seem impossible when speaking in practical terms.

[Keltest]

It is of course possible, however I don't see much advantage from it. Best case scenario, she spends some points getting out then getting back in, THEN she attacks people. Vs if she hadn't ported out she could have just blasted them then and there.

Plus, shes down an Ioun Stone now.

[martianmister]

Could Laurin be bluffing (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bluff#English)?


Noun
bluff (plural bluffs)
An act of bluffing; an expression of self-confidence for the purpose of intimidation; braggadocio.
(poker) An attempt to represent yourself as holding a stronger hand than you do.
(US, dated) The card game poker.

No.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Bluff can also mean simply an attempt to deceive.

So, sure, maybe. We don't even know if she's off the ship.

[orrion]

Bluff can also mean simply an attempt to deceive.

So, sure, maybe. We don't even know if she's off the ship.

True, but it's likely. Where would she D-Door to on the ship? She doesn't know the lay of the ship so she can't visualize anything except the deck. Random direction has a chance to throw her into the open air or cause the spell to fail.

If she used Teleport instead, then I think it would count as a False Destination, which gives her a chance to be shunted to a similar area or take 1d10 until she rolls being shunted.

[Ward.]

True, but it's likely. Where would she D-Door to on the ship? She doesn't know the lay of the ship so she can't visualize anything except the deck. Random direction has a chance to throw her into the open air or cause the spell to fail.

If she used Teleport instead, then I think it would count as a False Destination, which gives her a chance to be shunted to a similar area or take 1d10 until she rolls being shunted.

She was a member of the julieteers, odds are she should know something about his skyship.
Beliebers know the lay out of justins house.

[SowZ]

If it looks like Tarquin's is about to bite it, though, better just let him die and Rez him as soon as possible than risk dying herself. She doesn't seem particularly loyal. I bet all the major players of Tarquin's game keep a toenail or lock of hair, too.

[Killer Angel]

Laurin just teleported off the ship after understanding that V could cast spells longer than Laurin could neutralize them, with the implication that she's fleeing the battle. After all the burning of power that she's been doing (and the loss of one of her stones), could she still have it in her to wormhole another army onto the ship? How about just her scarf-wearing sorcerer teammate? (I don't know if wormholes' cost are based on mass going through, or if they're just on/off.)


Probably she isn't so low on points, that she cannot afford such a move, so yes, bluff is a possibility.
The point is: does she wants to come back and fight a combat she was against, since the beginning?


I'm just asking if this is within her capabilities.
AFAIK, we don't know exactly her remaining power.

[theinsulabot]

its rather unlikely. each round lasts 6 seconds. even when taking into account talking being a free action and the idea that tarquin is great at fighting defensively, how long does he have before he gets dogpiled by the order plus julio and bled out. 6 rounds? maybe 8?

10 on the outside and thats really pushing it. that gives her an outside of one minute to port out, find someone or someones strong enough to meaningfully effect the situation, explain the situation, and port back in.

[Fnordius]

The only thing that seems to be out of place is that I didn't expect Laurin to leave without taking Tarquin with her. But the way V is letting V's guard down reveals that Laurin is nowhere near. Although it does seem a wee bit too early to relax, when Tarquin is still clinging to the side of the ship.

[gellerche]

its rather unlikely. each round lasts 6 seconds. even when taking into account talking being a free action and the idea that tarquin is great at fighting defensively, how long does he have before he gets dogpiled by the order plus julio and bled out. 6 rounds? maybe 8?

10 on the outside and thats really pushing it. that gives her an outside of one minute to port out, find someone or someones strong enough to meaningfully effect the situation, explain the situation, and port back in.

That's interesting. I'm so used to Tarquin Juggernauting his way through combat that I assumed that overwhelming force wouldn't work. But you could have a point there.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Could Laurin be bluffing (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bluff#English)?



No.
I see your Wiktionary and raise you an SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/bluff.htm).


A successful Bluff check indicates that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time (usually 1 round or less) or believes something that you want it to believe.

:smallwink:

[Tiiba]

She was a member of the julieteers, odds are she should know something about his skyship.
Beliebers know the lay out of justins house.

Seriously? That's creepy. But I'll guess it's because he told them, and it has no military significance.

[chibibar]

A good strategist (Laurin shown to be so) would port out (or to a place on the ship that she may know the layout) and call for reinforcement.

A good strategist would also make a run for it if she knows she is outnumbered heavily with little chance of winning.

As one would say, "She ran the numbers."

[Flickerdart]

It's possible that wherever Laurin went to has an ample supply of cognizance crystals, which would allow her to return empowered. However, there is little reason for her not to have had the crystals with her in the first place. Additionally, given that she doesn't actually owe Tarquin anything, a more permanent retreat is an option she has open.

[The Oni]

If Knowledge (insane fandom) turns out to be a class skill for Laurin with actual strategic use for a saboteur, I'll eat my Hat of Disguise.

[Seward]

The basic issue with teleporting is knowing where to teleport to.

You can't do something as simple as a Sending and having Tarquin reply with the airship location in this situation, as it takes 10 minutes to cast.

So Miron won't be back, or if he is back (perhaps his lair has a teleport scroll for just such emergencies), he's with the army, the last real place he'd know to go. If shoulder-pad-guy or Jacinda happens to be near where his contingency takes him (Jacinda is unlikely, but SPG is working the same kingdom Miron is, he could arrive at the army with a reinforcement if Miron can find him a few rounds from wherever his contingency lands)

Lauren, if she's responsible and has enough PP for another wormhole should go back to the army and Wormhole them back home, not onto a moving airship. If Miron+friend happen to be there, it's conceivable she'd be able to get the 3 of them back on the ship and still have enough pp to bug out. Which risks stranding the army and getting all of them killed to bail out Tarquin, who has clearly gone over the bend.

Frankly I don't see Miron or Lauren wanting to go another round today. There's literally nothing in it for them if Tarquin pushes the thing to where he gets killed, and even if he gets bailed out and owes/cancels favors, the risk is still awfully high.

[chibibar]

The basic issue with teleporting is knowing where to teleport to.

You can't do something as simple as a Sending and having Tarquin reply with the airship location in this situation, as it takes 10 minutes to cast.

So Miron won't be back, or if he is back (perhaps his lair has a teleport scroll for just such emergencies), he's with the army, the last real place he'd know to go. If shoulder-pad-guy or Jacinda happens to be near where his contingency takes him (Jacinda is unlikely, but SPG is working the same kingdom Miron is, he could arrive at the army with a reinforcement if Miron can find him a few rounds from wherever his contingency lands)

Lauren, if she's responsible and has enough PP for another wormhole should go back to the army and Wormhole them back home, not onto a moving airship. If Miron+friend happen to be there, it's conceivable she'd be able to get the 3 of them back on the ship and still have enough pp to bug out. Which risks stranding the army and getting all of them killed to bail out Tarquin, who has clearly gone over the bend.

Frankly I don't see Miron or Lauren wanting to go another round today. There's literally nothing in it for them if Tarquin pushes the thing to where he gets killed, and even if he gets bailed out and owes/cancels favors, the risk is still awfully high.

Plus Miron already establish of letting Tarquin wasting his perfectly good army. EVEN calling a favor, I don't think that will entailed Miron's army (I presume of course)

I could see Miron may come back to make sure the favor is squared off (since they did make a big deal of it) but not the other team mates.

[Haar]

If Laurin had been paying attention she would notice some missing persons who could be anywhere else on the ship. Unless she was sure she could handle anyone she ported near if she ported to another part of the airship, I'd say she isn't on the ship anymore.

Julieteer or not, she wouldn't know the placement of other people.

[JDMSJR]

One thing I think people are forgetting is that Laurin has no authority to command the army. As far as the army is concerned, she was just somebody Tarquin brought in to cast some spells. Tarquin and Malak were the ones with authority in the Empire of Blood, not any of their teammates.

[rodneyAnonymous]

I bet all the major players of Tarquin's game keep a toenail or lock of hair, too.

"...the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm)

[SowZ]

"...the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm)

Oh. Right. I haven't played much at all where resurrection was even a thing that would hapen. /: Maybe she's staying below the ship hoping to catch part of him that may fall to the ground in case of his death? V should use disintegrate.

[WindStruck]

I think it would be impossible for her to have teleported away some great distance, then place a wormhole back at the exact location the ship is at, as it's still moving, turning, ascending, etc...

[orrion]

She was a member of the julieteers, odds are she should know something about his skyship.
Beliebers know the lay out of justins house.

I'm not sure internet-guided tours or full disclosure - whichever Justin decided to use - are part of this universe or Scoundrel's disposition.


If Laurin had been paying attention she would notice some missing persons who could be anywhere else on the ship. Unless she was sure she could handle anyone she ported near if she ported to another part of the airship, I'd say she isn't on the ship anymore.

Julieteer or not, she wouldn't know the placement of other people.

While it would be absolutely hilarious if she did use D-Door and ported herself in standing next to a praying Durkon, I think shes gone too.

[Red XIV]

Oh. Right. I haven't played much at all where resurrection was even a thing that would hapen. /: Maybe she's staying below the ship hoping to catch part of him that may fall to the ground in case of his death? V should use disintegrate.
With the degree of resources Tarquin and his party have demonstrated, True Resurrection is not out of the question. Too bad for Malack that doesn't work on the undead.

[SowZ]

With the degree of resources Tarquin and his party have demonstrated, True Resurrection is not out of the question. Too bad for Malack that doesn't work on the undead.

Maybe, we don't even know if there are any 17th level clerics in this setting!

[Deliverance]

Maybe, we don't even know if there are any 17th level clerics in this setting!
We do. We know that there is at least one.

Redcloak as demonstrated in #826 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0826.html) is at least 17th level due to his use of implosion, and given that he further demonstrates this mastery right in the face of the OOTS in #901 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html), it is possible that the OOTS - at least the more strategically minded members - know that Redcloak is at least 17th level. And if they haven't thought about it yet, they can probably deduce it.

So we know that at least one 17th level cleric exist in the testing, which admittedly is of little help in determining whether Team Tarquin might have access to True Resurrection, except in the sense that it shows that that level of cleric power isn't ruled out.

[Zorgoth]

True resurrection won't happen.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13861815

[Kish]

Maybe, we don't even know if there are any 17th level clerics in this setting!


We do. We know that there is at least one.
You messed up your line. It's supposed to be, "Ooh! I bet Redcloak is 17th level!" to which SowZ would reply, "Not helping!"

[konradknox]

Prediction:
Laurin ports in the entire Team Tarquin, and OoTS + Julio prevail over them, but Tarquin is left hanging by the rail to watch the fight and not partake in it. Elan sings the entire time, to Tarquin's fury. Roy, V, Durkula and Belkar do most of the work. And Tarquin flies off the ship knowing the lowlives beat his legendary team without as much as paying specific attention to him, and worst of all, his son was playing support the whole time and nothing he can do about it.

[Seward]

True resurrection won't happen.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13861815
That quote rules it out for a black dragon, but doesn't 100% rule it out for others. Lauren certainly seemed to believe that disintegrate+wind was enough to ensure Nale never got rezzed.

That doesn't 100% say that Team Tarquin can't get hold of one, but it seems very very unlikely. The only powerful caster on their team other than Lauren that we know of (barring Shoulder Pad Guy) is dust and gone.

[orrion]

That quote rules it out for a black dragon, but doesn't 100% rule it out for others. Lauren certainly seemed to believe that disintegrate+wind was enough to ensure Nale never got rezzed.

That doesn't 100% say that Team Tarquin can't get hold of one, but it seems very very unlikely. The only powerful caster on their team other than Lauren that we know of (barring Shoulder Pad Guy) is dust and gone.

Kinda does rule it out for others. Why would the Giant use something he just called a terrible, narrative-wrecking device in his narrative?

[Keltest]

That quote rules it out for a black dragon, but doesn't 100% rule it out for others. Lauren certainly seemed to believe that disintegrate+wind was enough to ensure Nale never got rezzed.

That doesn't 100% say that Team Tarquin can't get hold of one, but it seems very very unlikely. The only powerful caster on their team other than Lauren that we know of (barring Shoulder Pad Guy) is dust and gone.

Divine caster you mean. Miron was an arcane caster, and he didn't die, someone just launched his escape pod.

[Seward]

Arg yeah, I forgot Miron. But if Miron had the pull to get outsiders to True Rez his buddies I don't think he'd be behind in favors with Tarquin.

I'm not willing to limit the Giant's narration in any way. Just because he thinks True Rez is a terrible device doesn't mean he won't decide it works somewhere in his story, even if only as a punchline, or as a flashback or a pre-Snarl thing that was allowed and helped spawn the Snarl.

I think actually using the spell to bring back anybody killed in the current cast of characters isn't going to happen, and I think there are good "in-campaign" reasons for it. At a minimum, that final a death tends to mean your soul is well into its afterlife, so if it isn't your deity bringing you back, the deity which grants the spell is potentially getting into serious conflict with whomever "owns" the dead individual.

We've already seen how Northern gods can't bend the rules in the South the way they can in their own domain. (Thor could cheat a bit with control weather to get a sonic attack in Cliffport, but couldn't allow Giant Durkon to run faster in Azure city, because the local pantheon objected)