Totemic Demonslayer

[j_spencer93]

This class looks interesting, what do others think? Are the tattoos as useful as they look or is the class a trap?

[Coidzor]

What's the source on that, by the by?

I can't recall ever having come across it.

[j_spencer93]

dragon magazine 325? i just looked at it and now i can not remember lol

[j_spencer93]

354 my bad

[Pluto!]

The class looks a lot like a Ranger with access to the Spell Compendium. That's about as lukewarm a statement as I can make - Demonslayer looks entirely playable, but not overwhelming by any stretch.

Quick summary of what the class has and does for folks who haven't read it:

Awesome Chassis - Full BA, d10 HD, 6+Int Skills, Good non-Will saves and bonuses to saves against enchantments.
Blackguard's divine spellcasting progression. The highlights of the list being Silence, Haste, Freedom of Movement and Dimension Anchor.
Short duration Dimension lock as a Su. Ability once or twice a day.
Tattoos - six swift self-buffs usable 1/day, potentially nine of the buffs if trading the "Greater Tattoos" down for 2 of the Lesser variety.
Favored Enemy and Detect Demon abilities that might occasionally be useful, but which aren't big enough or broad enough to meaningfully affect the class's power level.


The highlights of the tattoos are:
Lesser (available ECLs 6, 8, 10):

Deinonychus - Pounce + Rake attacks for 3 rounds. Simultaneous movement and attacks is a hallmark of a decent melee character. And Rake gives at least some upside compared to dipping Barbarian before entering the PrC.
Boar - Rage as a barbarian. Some anti-synergy with spellcasting but untyped ability uses are always useful. And as a limited per-day resource, still doesn't necessarily conflict with a Barbarian dip before entry.
Allosaurus/Snake - Two flavors of Improved Grab that last for 3 rounds; Allosaurus comes with Rake, Snake with constrict. Improved Grab is powerful and Constrict is always sweet, but it's worth noting that the class does not provide an exception to IG's limit to engaging grapples with creatures "a size or more smaller" than its users, so this is actually pretty situational, but powerful when it works.
Other effects: Generally flavorful, but not very powerful or reliable. Most of the movement effects like climb speeds look like they'd be redundant with abilities like flight that you'll still be obligated to address at about the same levels that the tattoos become available (eg. the Demonslayer can get a climb speed for a minute a day at ECL 6-10, which is about the time a melee character needs to start going into the market for some means of reliable flight).


Greater Tatoots (available ECLs 12, 14, 15):

Whirlwind - Perfect flight and automatic critical confirmation against evil Outsiders for a minute. Both are solid benefits, but not gamebreakers at the level they're available.
Tyrannosaurus - A huge (3d6+3*Str) secondary attack for 3 rounds. Again, a solid damage boost, but not gamechanging.
Triceratops - A single-burst damage effect on a charge. The boost is pretty sizable (4d6+4*Str), but because the bonus only applies once, the damage is more of a cool trick than something to really alter a character's effectiveness.
The other abilities are either pretty situational (Cold Iron natural weapons) or pretty weak (DC 14 poison, DR 4/-- for 3 rounds, Glide ability).


Looking at how the Demonslayer probably plays:

Its numbers look good - The chassis carries weight on defense and pounce+extra attacks can make for reasonable damage, but only in bursts, similar to a Lion's Charging Ranger.
It covers the bases needed to participate in mid-level combat - the class gets native flight and pounce, whose absence just bars a lot of melee classes from combat.
It has utility abilities pertinent to the high-level game - Dimension Lock/Anchor, Freedom of Movement and Flight mean that the class can actually engage and interact with the monsters it's supposed to be fighting at levels 12-15.


I get the impression that the class is going to spend a lot of the level 6-10 range as a more fragile Barbarian with a couple more out-of-combat tricks, and a lot of the level 11-15 range as a more fragile Barbarian who is much better suited to the demands of high-level combat.

[j_spencer93]

Am using it for a monk designed to basically be able to deliver 1 massive attack and end the battle, however with this class it slightly changed into delivering 1 charge and delivering a full attack to deal massive damage.

[j_spencer93]

I thought the class looked pretty cool though, i like the tattoo idea of it. Some of the tattoos seem a little useless though.

[Pluto!]

I don't mean to discourage you. The class looks fun and definitely worth a try, unless your optimization level is high enough that Rangers aren't playable.

It's just not going to give you the leeway that ridiculous classes like Wizard or Druid will, where you can blow your feats and skills on Brachiation and Craft(Basket Weaving) and still be the most powerful character in the party.

[j_spencer93]

honestly i do not optimize my character much or do my players really make them based on flavor although this does lead to problems.

[j_spencer93]

This this class will have one of my players going back to that one race of dino people that shift (anyone know what i am talking about? would love to get their stats again?). last time he said he needed more dino fluff and here it is.

[Coidzor]

Are you talking about Saurials (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040717a)?

[Pluto!]

Probably the Saurian Shifter variants from dragon magazine?

Those are actually pretty sweet, especially if you fudge some of the Races of Eberron shifter feats to apply to analogous dinosaur shifters. I think there was a shifter handbook someone started on this site that might be useful for seeing what resources are available and for paring down to the more useful stuff.

EDIT: Found it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225294)

[j_spencer93]

Why fudge them? sidebar states they can take shifter feats? And ya told my player about this class today and now he interested in that shifter race again.