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Hangwind
2013-12-24, 12:36 PM
As a RPG fanatic I have played a ton of different games. I started out with videogames(My first being the Dragon Warrior I and II game for Gameboy), then expanded to all sorts of different RPG's. The biggest problem I have with most RPG's is how...limited the choices are. Really, if a person actually lived in a fantasy setting and had the job of hunting down dangerous creatures, he would probably expand his repertoire to include more than just the same kind of attack again and again. However, it does make sense that your education would affect your abilities. I wanted to introduce more flexibility to the tabletop RPG.

To that end, I have an idea for a new system using three distinct sets of powers, physical, mental, and magical. Each would have their own pool of points for them to use based on the stats their power types use. For the physical, it would depend on the total of their Strength, Speed, Constitution, and Agility. For the mental it would depend on the total of their Will, Intelligence, Charisma, and Wisdom.

Magical would be a bit different. For your mana pool you would draw from your Ki and Psi pools to create your magic pool. In other words, to create a point of Mana, you would need to use a point of Ki and Psi. It would be possible to create Mana from only one source, but it would require three points instead of two.

Now the unique part comes from the way a character grows. Instead of following traditional leveling methods, a charater follows a "path". Each class has it's own unique path with nodes that one fills in with skills, stat increases and other improvements to the character. As each path gets filled, it branches at different points, showing the different ways a character can grow. At certain points an automatic bonus will come from reaching that point on your path.

How do you get these nodes? With experience points! Instead of a traditional leveling system, each power or boost has a set cost to obtain. If the power is on your list of class powers, you pay the base amount to obtain it. If it has a tag that your class lists as a class tag, you pay a little more. Not all powers will have these tags. If it falls under your discipline (physical, magical, psychic), you pay more. If it is in a different discipline, you pay the top price.

Every power will be available to any character capable of wielding it. Obviously, it will be a bit difficult for a wingless character to use powers that require wings, like Wing Shield. Apart from physical limitations though, you are perfectly free to get any power you want. However, most powers will have a family they belong to. For each power you get in a given family, the other powers in that family will become cheaper. The more expensive powers will decrease the others price the most, though the exact amount of change will vary from power to power.

A given power may belong to more than one family, though that will be more common with lesser powers than with the greater powers. This means that a power may be reduced to 0 or less for it's learning cost. If that happens the character learns it automatically. You cannot gain experience this way, only free powers.

Multi-classing is a perfectly valid option as well. You can multi-class as much as you want, but there is a price. Your base price for powers goes up unless it happens to be on both classes power lists. The benefit comes from the fact that more things are on your class, tag, or discipline list. While the price for those powers go up, more powers are on them, making your character capable of a broader scope of powers. Think carefully about when and what to multi-class for as the increase to prices for powers stack, which can quickly make getting any new powers difficult.

Now, on to the nature of the powers themselves. The primary difference between physical and mental powers is their focus. Generally speaking, a physical power is going to be focused on damage or healing pure hit points. A psychic power is going to be focused on causing effects.

The other difference is the way a character is allowed to use their powers. A psychic character can manifest any power they have the points to manifest. They pay the cost, the power manifests.

On the other hand, a physical character uses his point as a buff of sorts. Once a character has buffed himself to having the minimum stats to use one of their powers, they can use that power at-will for as long as they can keep up the stats. Yes, this does mean that eventually a physical fighter will be able to use higher-level attacks at will.

Magic characters are a hybrid of the two. They use a point system like psychics, but once they have paid, the spell has a duration during which it can be used at will. The balance comes from the fact they are burning two or three points to every one a physical or psychic class does.

The nature of their powers varies as well. For a physical class what you see is what you get. Once you have learned a power, it is going to remain mostly unchanged for the rest of your characters life. There will be powers to modify other powers, but they will be both expensive and limited.

Psychic powers are very different. When you buy a psychic power, you get one free upgrade for it. However, that power will have more upgrades than what you got originally. You can choose to buy as many or as few of those upgrades as you want. While the original power would cost less than it's approximate physical equivalent, with enough upgrades you would make it's overall cost more expensive. This means that two psychics with the exact same powers could be very, very different.

Spells are a different mechanic again. Each spell has two descriptions: what it does, and what it does when added to another spell. Any spell can be used on any spell, but beware! The costs can run VERY high.

As a final note, this also makes monsters fairly simple to make. Build them just like a PC! You can use the "default" monsters, but you will always know where a monster fits on the progression instead of having to guess based on random abilities. If it has X experience it fits in X tier and is suitable for Y player level.

Each discipline will have it's own baseline attack. For the physical classes, it starts out close range and can be switched to long range with certain weapons (bows, crossbows, ect.). The opposite is true for a psychic class. While their basic attack is ranged, they can switch it to close up with certain weapons (whips, chains, ect.) Magic classes don't have a defined range, instead they have an AoE basic attack when unarmed and can change that with weapons.

Of course, there are ways to upgrade that as well. For a physical character, they can use anything they have the stats for at will. That means that eventually they will get better attacks they can use in place of the basic attack.

For a psychic character, their basic attack has many potential upgrades, many capable of being used more than once. Every Psychic attack is considered a part of that family. When the price has been reduced to zero, select an upgrade and add it to the base attack. The price then resets to the original plus a small increase and the cycle starts again.

Magical characters advance their basic attack with their mana pool and spells. Take their two highest stats and add them together. Divide the result by half. That is the amount of mana cost you can put in your basic attack. Choose appropriate spells to enhance your basic attack. These can be changed every time you declare a new basic attack.

So much is dependent on the powers you buy. How do you buy them though? There are no set levels to allow a buying mechanic. The way is through either dedicated training or lots of fighting. You cannot use any XP unless you have more than a quarter of your current total spent. In other words, if you have spent 400 XP you can't spend any more until you have 100 available. Once you have reached that limit, you can spend your XP freely. However, if you buy a power that reduces your available XP below the limit, you can't spend anymore until you get back up again. Every day of dedicated training allows you to spend a certain amount of saved XP to spend freely. It also increases your XP by a certain amount. The exact amounts increase with your level.

One question that comes up is why NPC's don't have and use at least some of the powers available to people in their world. The short answer? They do here. However, their powers, their abilities are focused on whatever profession they have. A farmer will have abilities related to farming. A craftsman will have abilities related to his craft. Sometimes these abilities can be useful in battle, but that just isn't the main focus of most NPC's. Beware though, the ones that are focused on fighting can be very dangerous indeed.

The final thing for right now is aging. Every species has ranges of age known as childhood, prime, and old age. In childhood, your stats increase every year by a random amount. In your prime, your stats don't change as you age. When you reach old age, your stats decrease every year by a random amount. The random amounts are determined by dice rolls. Some characters gain enough stats to ignore any losses, while others choose to spend XP on protections against losses. With this warriors have defeated armies at 90, psychics have brought down dragons even though they had to be carried to get there, and legendary artisans have created their masterworks on their deathbed.

So what do you think? Right now, this is just a rough draft. I have the general relationships worked out, but not the number crunching. Would you be interested in playing a system like this? Are there any obvious flaws you can see?

Thank you, both for your comment and for making it through the wall of text!:smallbiggrin:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-12-24, 02:05 PM
I'll give you more detailed thoughts when I'm not at work, but I have some major concern about the sheer complexity of this system. More detailed analysis is needed before I confirm that opinion though.

Saving this to look deeper into later tonight/tomorrow.

erikun
2013-12-24, 02:42 PM
Having read through everything, I have two big concerns. One is that the system right now is incredibly complex, much more so that pretty much any other system I can think of. The second is that the system doesn't seem to achieve its stated goal - that is, I don't see how it's providing something other than "just the same kind of attack again and again" when you get down to combat.

At the most complex, this looks like the D&D3e Tome of Battle/D&D4e combat system combined with Mutants & Masterminds. However, both Tome of Battle and D&D4e provide a lot of options for the complexity they present, and I'm just not seeing the same with this system. For that matter, the basic D&D3e system appears to provide better combat options. Heck, I could say that the basic Fate system almost does as well, what between attacking or assisting allies or impairing opponents, with far less complexity.

Are you familiar with Mutants and Masterminds? I'd be interested in what you thought of the system, as you can freely build characters with wide ranges of powers and attack methods. It might be a lot closer to what you have in mind, actually.

Mutazoia
2013-12-24, 10:53 PM
So far it sounds like if Warhammer Fantasy and the Palladium rules had a bastard love child. RPG's (the good ones that stick around) are simple for a reason. Throw too much in there and people get confused or simply lose interest after wading through a character creation section that makes War and Peace look like a highschool news paper. And after all...it's all going to boil down to "I attack the monster...here's my dice roll...and one more for damage" no matter how much you try to fluff it up.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-12-25, 01:28 AM
I wanted to introduce more flexibility to the tabletop RPG.

Alright. So this is our stated goal: Create a system with a high level of flexibility.


To that end, I have an idea for a new system using three distinct sets of powers, physical, mental, and magical. Each would have their own pool of points for them to use based on the stats their power types use. For the physical, it would depend on the total of their Strength, Speed, Constitution, and Agility. For the mental it would depend on the total of their Will, Intelligence, Charisma, and Wisdom.

Magical would be a bit different. For your mana pool you would draw from your Ki and Psi pools to create your magic pool. In other words, to create a point of Mana, you would need to use a point of Ki and Psi. It would be possible to create Mana from only one source, but it would require three points instead of two.

So every character has three pools of resources...two from stats, and the third (I believe) is derived from points spent by the other two? Does this make the Mana pool flexible, or are points merely spent a single time and then considered "used?"

I'm already worried. Each pool is calculated from three stats, meaning that characters who want to excel in one area require three good stats in that area...which decreases build flexibility. That's directly contrary to our stated goal.

The Mana Pool mechanics also worry me, but aren't fleshed out enough for me to really comment. I'm not sure I like the idea of magic-wielding characters spending so much of their other potential power to access magic though...but, again, balance and mechanics will dictate this in the end.


Now the unique part comes from the way a character grows. Instead of following traditional leveling methods, a charater follows a "path". Each class has it's own unique path with nodes that one fills in with skills, stat increases and other improvements to the character. As each path gets filled, it branches at different points, showing the different ways a character can grow. At certain points an automatic bonus will come from reaching that point on your path.

Are we looking at a Star Wars: Edge of the Empire method (branching tree with requirements, with some overlap between classes but no direct way to switch trees completely) or a Path of Exile method (one massive tree for all classes, with classes having an easier time accessing nearby powers, which are typically related to their area of expertise)?


How do you get these nodes? With experience points! Instead of a traditional leveling system, each power or boost has a set cost to obtain. If the power is on your list of class powers, you pay the base amount to obtain it. If it has a tag that your class lists as a class tag, you pay a little more. Not all powers will have these tags. If it falls under your discipline (physical, magical, psychic), you pay more. If it is in a different discipline, you pay the top price.

4 price points per power seems to indicate that you won't see much flexibility, as it's always much MUCH cheaper to get better at what you're good at. Even in something like World of Darkness (where there are two price points) taking non-associated powers is relatively rare because of the price hike. Applying multiple levels of price hike seems to encourage a small subset of powers while putting an exorbitant cost on others. If the price increases are small enough to make the highest price still somewhat reasonable, I'd question the need to have more than 2 prices in the first place.


For each power you get in a given family, the other powers in that family will become cheaper. The more expensive powers will decrease the others price the most, though the exact amount of change will vary from power to power.

This seems like a LOT of complexity for cost calculation. Also, we're decreasing flexibility again: the more powers you purchase in a family, the cheaper that family becomes. Your mechanics are all encouraging specialization rather than flexibility.


A given power may belong to more than one family, though that will be more common with lesser powers than with the greater powers. This means that a power may be reduced to 0 or less for it's learning cost. If that happens the character learns it automatically. You cannot gain experience this way, only free powers.

Again, this is a lot to track. You have to check with every power you could possibly get whenever you gain an ability that reduces power costs.


Multi-classing is a perfectly valid option as well. You can multi-class as much as you want, but there is a price. Your base price for powers goes up unless it happens to be on both classes power lists. The benefit comes from the fact that more things are on your class, tag, or discipline list. While the price for those powers go up, more powers are on them, making your character capable of a broader scope of powers. Think carefully about when and what to multi-class for as the increase to prices for powers stack, which can quickly make getting any new powers difficult.

Again, this encourages specialization. Picking up multiple classes makes MORE powers increase in cost, and this functions for every additional class I take. This is this third mechanic that seems to actively punish non-specialization in a system that has a goal of encouraging build flexibility.


Now, on to the nature of the powers themselves. The primary difference between physical and mental powers is their focus. Generally speaking, a physical power is going to be focused on damage or healing pure hit points. A psychic power is going to be focused on causing effects.

If this is anything like D&D, status effects are almost always superior to damage.


*Power Use Stuff*

I'd need to see more details here.


Each discipline will have it's own baseline attack. For the physical classes, it starts out close range and can be switched to long range with certain weapons (bows, crossbows, ect.). The opposite is true for a psychic class. While their basic attack is ranged, they can switch it to close up with certain weapons (whips, chains, ect.) Magic classes don't have a defined range, instead they have an AoE basic attack when unarmed and can change that with weapons.

This makes it seem like most of my turns will be spent using my basic attack, especially as it upgrades. That's...well, rather boring to me. Also, is this limited to certain weapons? I can't use a close-range attack as a psychic-focused class? I'm not sure I entirely understand what you're trying to do here.


So much is dependent on the powers you buy. How do you buy them though? There are no set levels to allow a buying mechanic. The way is through either dedicated training or lots of fighting. You cannot use any XP unless you have more than a quarter of your current total spent. In other words, if you have spent 400 XP you can't spend any more until you have 100 available. Once you have reached that limit, you can spend your XP freely. However, if you buy a power that reduces your available XP below the limit, you can't spend anymore until you get back up again. Every day of dedicated training allows you to spend a certain amount of saved XP to spend freely. It also increases your XP by a certain amount. The exact amounts increase with your level.

Once again, this seems overly complicated. Functional, but complicated.

I do *not* approve of "training days" giving XP though: you'll find players ready and willing to attempt to shatter that rule into tiny pieces, and it actively encourages non-participation in adventures by giving guaranteed experience with no associated danger.


The final thing for right now is aging. Every species has ranges of age known as childhood, prime, and old age. In childhood, your stats increase every year by a random amount. In your prime, your stats don't change as you age. When you reach old age, your stats decrease every year by a random amount. The random amounts are determined by dice rolls. Some characters gain enough stats to ignore any losses, while others choose to spend XP on protections against losses. With this warriors have defeated armies at 90, psychics have brought down dragons even though they had to be carried to get there, and legendary artisans have created their masterworks on their deathbed.

...is this necessary? Maybe in a simulationist game, where you're trying to create the most realistic world possible. But this game doesn't sound like that, so I'm unsure as to what you feel these aging rules would add.

CONCLUSION
If feels like you're really not sure what sort of a game you want. Here are a few questions to really get you started:

1 -- What will this game do that others will not? Why pick it over another system?
2 -- What things will this system focus on? What sort of gameplay should it encourage?
3 -- How do you value simplicity vs. gameplay depth vs. real-world simulation vs. storytelling freedom?

That can help give us a better idea of what you're aiming to make here.

JBPuffin
2013-12-25, 08:38 PM
I wanted to introduce more flexibility to the tabletop RPG.


...Okay, while I admire your plan...dude, if you think there's little flexibility in tabletop RPGs you've got another thing coming.

I think what you want to do is just build a video game that runs on this; I'd buy it in a video game, but as tabletop it just won't work.

Hangwind
2013-12-26, 10:00 AM
All right, there is one post that seems complete and addresses the concerns of everybody. So I'm going to focus on Djinn in Tonic's post.

C1
So every character has three pools of resources...two from stats, and the third (I believe) is derived from points spent by the other two? Does this make the Mana pool flexible, or are points merely spent a single time and then considered "used?"

I'm already worried. Each pool is calculated from three stats, meaning that characters who want to excel in one area require three good stats in that area...which decreases build flexibility. That's directly contrary to our stated goal.

The Mana Pool mechanics also worry me, but aren't fleshed out enough for me to really comment. I'm not sure I like the idea of magic-wielding characters spending so much of their other potential power to access magic though...but, again, balance and mechanics will dictate this in the end.

A1 Um, three stats? I'm pretty sure I listed four. Also, the pools are determined by the sum total of your stats, so 40,0,0,0=10,10,10,10 and everything in between. I am not entirely sure how to address your concerns about the magic system without actual crunch,which I am still working out. The best I can say is I am designing primary magic users to be more complicated than other characters. I want them to be used by people who are really invested in the game. While I hope not to overpower them, I do intend that a well made magic character be capable of changing the course of an encounter.

C2
Are we looking at a Star Wars: Edge of the Empire method (branching tree with requirements, with some overlap between classes but no direct way to switch trees completely) or a Path of Exile method (one massive tree for all classes, with classes having an easier time accessing nearby powers, which are typically related to their area of expertise)?

A2Neither really. The idea is that a path represents how a character has grown. You can put anything into your path, no matter what class you are. A physical character could put psychic or magical powers into his path with no problem at all. You could also focus on stat increases, passive ability boosts, or body modifications. What the path does is provide bonuses as you fill out more and more of it. Of course, a bonus is going to be thematic to the class. So, you could have a fire mage with mostly water spells. Or a swordsman focusing on ranged Ki blasts. Or a telepath that focuses on setting people on fire. Thus, versatility.

C3
4 price points per power seems to indicate that you won't see much flexibility, as it's always much MUCH cheaper to get better at what you're good at. Even in something like World of Darkness (where there are two price points) taking non-associated powers is relatively rare because of the price hike. Applying multiple levels of price hike seems to encourage a small subset of powers while putting an exorbitant cost on others. If the price increases are small enough to make the highest price still somewhat reasonable, I'd question the need to have more than 2 prices in the first place.


A3 Fair enough, I'll probably drop it to just a baseline price for all powers. Maybe with a stackable power that makes other powers cheaper?

Because really, if someone wants to be a warrior with psychic powers and can find a way to do it, who am I to stop them?

C4-6
This seems like a LOT of complexity for cost calculation. Also, we're decreasing flexibility again: the more powers you purchase in a family, the cheaper that family becomes. Your mechanics are all encouraging specialization rather than flexibility.

Again, this is a lot to track. You have to check with every power you could possibly get whenever you gain an ability that reduces power costs.

Again, this encourages specialization. Picking up multiple classes makes MORE powers increase in cost, and this functions for every additional class I take. This is this third mechanic that seems to actively punish non-specialization in a system that has a goal of encouraging build flexibility.


A4-6 Not a concern. see previous post.

C7
If this is anything like D&D, status effects are almost always superior to damage.

A7 Yeah, effects in D and D are both overpowered and restricted to too few characters. I'm hoping to avoid that.

C8
I'd need to see more details here.

A8 Not until further in the development, mostly because I don't have further details right now.

C9
This makes it seem like most of my turns will be spent using my basic attack, especially as it upgrades. That's...well, rather boring to me. Also, is this limited to certain weapons? I can't use a close-range attack as a psychic-focused class? I'm not sure I entirely understand what you're trying to do here.

A9First, your basic attack is going to be significantly weaker than your better attacks. Unless you specialize in basic attacks, you will be slaughtered by those with better ones if you try to use them exclusively.

Second, your weapon will decide what your basic attack actually is, what I was describing was what happened if you were unarmed. In the same way that a bow makes a physical basic ranged, a whip would make a psychic melee.

C10
Once again, this seems overly complicated. Functional, but complicated.

I do *not* approve of "training days" giving XP though: you'll find players ready and willing to attempt to shatter that rule into tiny pieces, and it actively encourages non-participation in adventures by giving guaranteed experience with no associated danger.

A10 Yeah, it is probably too complicated. Might switch it to "After a week of training you can choose new powers." It is mostly there so players aren't constantly trying to get new powers in a dungeon.

The training XP is because I always had a hard time with the idea that a character never improves in his off time. Any ideas how to handle this? I am looking for something that will allow a certain amount of improvement while making adventuring clearly the better choice.

C11
...is this necessary? Maybe in a simulationist game, where you're trying to create the most realistic world possible. But this game doesn't sound like that, so I'm unsure as to what you feel these aging rules would add.

A11 Mostly it shouldn't be a factor, but I was hoping to provide an in-game explanation for old and young people. It would also tie into various legendary characters.


CONCLUSION
If feels like you're really not sure what sort of a game you want. Here are a few questions to really get you started:

1 -- What will this game do that others will not? Why pick it over another system?
2 -- What things will this system focus on? What sort of gameplay should it encourage?
3 -- How do you value simplicity vs. gameplay depth vs. real-world simulation vs. storytelling freedom?

That can help give us a better idea of what you're aiming to make here.

I hope to make a high-fantasy game that doesn't end up with a ton of fridge logic like I find in other games. The system should focus on combat with a serious approach to tactics. I value gameplay and story-telling, but again I am hoping to introduce a bit more real-world logic to it as well. I don't want a game where it feels like only the PC's have magic, and reality altering powers are only used by people in actual combat. Magic, psi, and ki should have an effect on the world as a whole.

For simplicity, I am hoping to make a game that can be played by just following the guides provided, but that can be enhanced by looking deeper into the options. I hope that players can make any kind of character they want, without being completely shown up by other classes.

JeenLeen
2013-12-27, 04:20 PM
Every power will be available to any character capable of wielding it. Obviously, it will be a bit difficult for a wingless character to use powers that require wings, like Wing Shield. Apart from physical limitations though, you are perfectly free to get any power you want. However, most powers will have a family they belong to. For each power you get in a given family, the other powers in that family will become cheaper. The more expensive powers will decrease the others price the most, though the exact amount of change will vary from power to power.

A given power may belong to more than one family, though that will be more common with lesser powers than with the greater powers. This means that a power may be reduced to 0 or less for it's learning cost. If that happens the character learns it automatically. You cannot gain experience this way, only free powers.


Two comments come to mind, one already stated.
1. This seems like a lot to track, which makes it more annoying to play, plan builds, etc., which would decrease how many people would want to play the system.
If it were a video game, that'd be cool, but for a tabletop pencil-and-paper, it feels too clunky.

2. I get that you never powers for negative xp, and that's good. But what if you buy a power for 20 xp, then get a power later on that would decrease it's cost to 18? Do you get those 2 xp back?

I ask because, if not, that gives a huge incentive for players to build up xp to buy those expensive powers that decrease the costs. You should either retroactively give things (similar to how increasing Con in D&D gets retroactive hit points for past levels, and UNLIKE how increasing Int does not give skill points/languages). This might only impact powergamers, but that's a section of the gaming population you are annoying if you do this.

Another option is to make it how you cannot buy a 'decrease all costs by 10%' until you have bought x skills/powers/whatever. It's not as nice, but it at least makes it how those who care about not wasting any xp will not be so handicapped.

And to your conversation with Djinn_in_Tonic

A2Neither really. The idea is that a path represents how a character has grown. You can put anything into your path, no matter what class you are. A physical character could put psychic or magical powers into his path with no problem at all. You could also focus on stat increases, passive ability boosts, or body modifications. What the path does is provide bonuses as you fill out more and more of it. Of course, a bonus is going to be thematic to the class. So, you could have a fire mage with mostly water spells. Or a swordsman focusing on ranged Ki blasts. Or a telepath that focuses on setting people on fire. Thus, versatility.

Could you explain the paths a bit more? I pictured something like Diablo II, but with the trees of all the classes & areas the classes could focus on mixing together in one way or another. From this, it sounds like the 'path' is a thing the player makes as the character levels.

Is it, for example, something like you can spend 20 xp to buy this 'feat' (to use a D&D term) or this spell/power/tactical-ability and add it to your path?

If so, that makes it sound much more manageable.

Chronologist
2013-12-27, 08:55 PM
I agree with Djinn_in_Tonic, in that the system seems overly complex. I also agree that having the price of different abilities be influenced by 4+ factors is a bit too much, and I think 8+ stats is unnecessary, especially for a system where stats seem less important that power choice.

Your primary goal seems to be flexibility, as Djinn already stated, but I think you should have your #2 objective be simplicity. You want a lot of depth, but I think you should make sure that character creation is a smooth, simple process with a small number of choices. Character advancement, that can have loads of customization elements, but the creation step should be simple.

Your game seems to tie specific powers / options into clans, so how about something like this:

1) Choose Clan / Family / Faction
2) Gain one of the three Favored Abilities of that Clan at, say, Rank 2 (drawing a number out of a hat, but compare it to something like Vampire's Disciplines)
3) Gain a second of the three Favored Abilities at Rank 1
4) Choose one of thee Secondary Abilities of the Clan, and gain it at Rank 1.
5) Divide a number of points between your attributes, with a bonus to a few attributes depending on Clan
6) Choose two of four Clan Skills to be trained in, and two other Skills of your choice to be trained in.

For example, a Ninja Clan might have something like the following:
Favored Abilities: Invisibility, Poisons, Assassination
Secondary Abilities: Teleportation, Shadow Control, Illusions
Attributes: +2 Dexterity, +2 Perception, +1 Agility
Skills: Stealth, Light Blades, Tracking, Subterfuge

It's a quick and dirty way to get people basic characters to start with, and after that they can spend their Xp or levels or whatever to improve their abilities or gain new ones. In this way different clans will specialize in different tactics and powers, but nothing's stopping this Ninja from picking up Pyromancy, Diplomacy, and Strength and being something unique and awesome.

DMMike
2013-12-28, 03:15 AM
A1 Um, three stats? I'm pretty sure I listed four. Also, the pools are determined by the sum total of your stats, so 40,0,0,0=10,10,10,10 and everything in between. I am not entirely sure how to address your concerns about the magic system without actual crunch,which I am still working out. The best I can say is I am designing primary magic users to be more complicated than other characters. I want them to be used by people who are really invested in the game. While I hope not to overpower them, I do intend that a well made magic character be capable of changing the course of an encounter.

A2Neither really. The idea is that a path represents how a character has grown. You can put anything into your path, no matter what class you are. A physical character could put psychic or magical powers into his path with no problem at all. You could also focus on stat increases, passive ability boosts, or body modifications. What the path does is provide bonuses as you fill out more and more of it. Of course, a bonus is going to be thematic to the class. So, you could have a fire mage with mostly water spells. Or a swordsman focusing on ranged Ki blasts. Or a telepath that focuses on setting people on fire. Thus, versatility.

A3 Fair enough, I'll probably drop it to just a baseline price for all powers. Maybe with a stackable power that makes other powers cheaper?

Because really, if someone wants to be a warrior with psychic powers and can find a way to do it, who am I to stop them?

A7 Yeah, effects in D and D are both overpowered and restricted to too few characters. I'm hoping to avoid that.

A9First, your basic attack is going to be significantly weaker than your better attacks. Unless you specialize in basic attacks, you will be slaughtered by those with better ones if you try to use them exclusively.

Second, your weapon will decide what your basic attack actually is, what I was describing was what happened if you were unarmed. In the same way that a bow makes a physical basic ranged, a whip would make a psychic melee.

C10
A10 Yeah, it is probably too complicated. Might switch it to "After a week of training you can choose new powers." It is mostly there so players aren't constantly trying to get new powers in a dungeon.

The training XP is because I always had a hard time with the idea that a character never improves in his off time. Any ideas how to handle this? I am looking for something that will allow a certain amount of improvement while making adventuring clearly the better choice.

I hope to make a high-fantasy game that doesn't end up with a ton of fridge logic like I find in other games. The system should focus on combat with a serious approach to tactics. I value gameplay and story-telling, but again I am hoping to introduce a bit more real-world logic to it as well. I don't want a game where it feels like only the PC's have magic, and reality altering powers are only used by people in actual combat. Magic, psi, and ki should have an effect on the world as a whole.

For simplicity, I am hoping to make a game that can be played by just following the guides provided, but that can be enhanced by looking deeper into the options. I hope that players can make any kind of character they want, without being completely shown up by other classes.

Hangwind, you should check out my homebrew, Modos RPG, because I've already hammered out several of the issues you're facing here.

- Modos magic users are more complicated than other characters, but only because they fully utilize the metaphysical ability.
- Modos RPG is classless, but you could easily lay class templates over it, or create perk trees to resemble the nodes.
- No XP. GMs decide when characters get levels, and have the option of not even using levels for advancement.
- Spells are only described in loose rules-terms, so that their effects can be tailored to fit the characters or the campaign.
- The rules start off light, putting emphasis on roleplaying. Adding more rules is free and welcome, so the game can become very technical/tactical for the right game group.

The current version of the Modos RPG rulebook is posted in the ENworld forums (search threads/forums for Modos Rulebook). However, I think ENworld is getting hacked again, right now, so I'll be looking for another place to post the rules shortly...

Hangwind
2013-12-30, 04:18 PM
@JeenLeen I am invalidating most of that section of my original post. I decided to go with just a base price for the powers with options to buy abilities that will make certain kinds of powers cheaper.

For the second part of your post, I am seeing paths more like the second option. You will have the ability to put any power into your path, with your class bonuses geared toward a certain style of class.

So, if you are playing a magical class, your bonuses will be geared toward magic. You can put any power you want into your path, but your bonus for having a certain amount of a path filled will be geared towards your classes core concept. Yes, this means a person can fill their path faster by buying a bunch of cheap powers, but you would have to be very good to find that perfect combination of powers to make it work. Think batman wizard. They are decent at a lot of things but great at nothing.

@Chronologist
Your idea is interesting, but I am trying to lessen the grouping of the powers. Basically I am only dividing them into Psychic/Physical/Magical now. At least for "combat" powers.

@DMMike
Before I start I should say this: I appreciate your input. However, I have a SERIOUS hatred of XP less games. I find that a lot of the rules-lite RPG's basically boil down to settings and little else.

Really, the entire point of having a RPG is so you don't have to make your own game. I guess if you enjoy that sort of stuff great! But it just is not the sort of thing I am looking to create.

DMMike
2014-01-03, 01:46 PM
@DMMike
Before I start I should say this: I appreciate your input. However, I have a SERIOUS hatred of XP less games. I find that a lot of the rules-lite RPG's basically boil down to settings and little else.

Really, the entire point of having a RPG is so you don't have to make your own game. I guess if you enjoy that sort of stuff great! But it just is not the sort of thing I am looking to create.

Well, I'm offering up my RPG as a source of inspiration, so don't take the no-XP feature if you don't like it.

With that said, Modos RPG is a game for at least intermediate-skill GMs. And it provides several guidelines for allowing characters to level-up such as:

- Grant a level-up when the party has gained good/evil reputation in X communities,
- Grant a level-up when the party has survived X encounters,
- (probably my favorite) grant skill points, perks, and ability points to characters as they earn them, and when they complete a full set, grant the last level feature (hero points) and call it an official level.

There's one other thing to keep in mind as you look over Modos RPG for inspiration (or to steal rules, be my guest!): it's more of a ROLEplaying game than a ROLLplaying game. For example, characters have an ability called "physical." While this measures your physical health, it can also represent any physical ability, say, muscle, agility, or endurance. It's up to the PC to roleplay whatever aspect of his character that "physical" represents. To facilitate this, the GM can award extra hero points to the player for roleplaying well.