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View Full Version : Devils, Demons, & convoluted plots



FabulousFizban
2013-12-24, 05:02 PM
I come once again to the playround for advice.

My group's BBEG is a devil (known to them as the black devil). Originally I had no idea what to do with him, what his motivations were, I merely used him because i wanted to turn a player's joke background into something he would regret. So up until now he has generally just manipulated and antagonized the party, getting them to unwittingly do his bidding.

But it is time for more. I've decided he is a mid-level devil who wants to be free of the heirarchy of hell. Thus his machinations should further this end. How would you play such a character, what kind of grand plan would he have. Does he automatically become a demon for shirking hell's pecking order?

I was thinking he could try to cause enough confusion on the material plane to distract Pathfinder's deities and steal a piece of hell to turn into his own demiplane. None of this is set in stone, his motives are still unknown to the party.

Help me out with this. What should I do with this character?
If you have questions, please ask. I will try to clarify anything quickly.

FabulousFizban
2013-12-24, 05:08 PM
A little more info. The devil owns the soul of one of the party, and is going to try to use another player's resentment to get him to work with the devil. (The player is an aasimar who feels abandoned by his celestial father and recently rejected the advice of an angel who was trying to tell the player about his destiny -stating he wanted nothing to do with celestials or their plans).

If it works, the party will be split between those working with the devil and those working against him. Chief against him is the paladin player who came up with the character for his backstory. The devil has his wife imprisoned in a gem Zelda style. The devil & the paladin have real reasons to hate each other. If the devil's goal ends up just being to ruin the paladin's life, that is acceptable, although it would be better if his plans involved the whole party.

But why is the devil doing this? what is his endgame? I have no idea, beyond what i mentioned as a possibility in the original post.

GameSpawn
2013-12-24, 09:36 PM
I come once again to the playround for advice.

My group's BBEG is a devil (known to them as the black devil). Originally I had no idea what to do with him, what his motivations were, I merely used him because i wanted to turn a player's joke background into something he would regret. So up until now he has generally just manipulated and antagonized the party, getting them to unwittingly do his bidding.

Well, first things first, I would never try to make a player regret one of their decisions. Result in them facing challenges IC? Certainly. Regret the decision? Absolutely not.



But it is time for more. I've decided he is a mid-level devil who wants to be free of the heirarchy of hell. Thus his machinations should further this end. How would you play such a character, what kind of grand plan would he have. Does he automatically become a demon for shirking hell's pecking order?

Well, there are a lot of settings that use demons and devils, so I don't want to speak authoritatively here, but in settings I'm familiar with, no. One of my favorite sources for demon and devil fluff is the Fiendish Codex set from D&D 3.5. In this, devils started off as beings of pure law who were made evil by contact with demons, while demons had a completely different origin. So no, even if you were to decide that the black devil became chaotic evil, he wouldn't become a demon. Of course, you could decide that does happen (you're in charge, after all), and I actually think it's kind of a cool idea.



I was thinking he could try to cause enough confusion on the material plane to distract Pathfinder's deities and steal a piece of hell to turn into his own demiplane. None of this is set in stone, his motives are still unknown to the party.

Help me out with this. What should I do with this character?
If you have questions, please ask. I will try to clarify anything quickly.

Well, if he doesn't like the hierarchy of hell, he might try to start an all out war between the devils and celestials (with the material plane in the middle). He could try to use the party to raid one or both sides in order to provoke a war. Then, when both sides are weakened, he swoops in and takes over a big chunk of hell for his own purposes. Maybe he wants to create a new hierarchy with himself on top? How much do the players know about him already?

BeerMug Paladin
2013-12-24, 10:53 PM
Well, if he doesn't like the hierarchy of hell, he might try to start an all out war between the devils and celestials (with the material plane in the middle). He could try to use the party to raid one or both sides in order to provoke a war. Then, when both sides are weakened, he swoops in and takes over a big chunk of hell for his own purposes. Maybe he wants to create a new hierarchy with himself on top? How much do the players know about him already?

Give the party a problem. Something that they would have trouble handling. Like maybe an ancient dragon is setting up digs in the area and demanding tribute from the town. It's not important what the problem is, just that there is one.

Then the devil could use its association with a player character to send visions of an artifact that is capable of opening a gateway to an outer plane to get the help of an outsider. The player character is not necessarily aware who the outsider is, and the vision shows the ritual required to use the artifact. Make it possible to determine that the artifact would summon a specific being from the lower planes. The artifact radiates strong law, and a being summoned by it would be closely tied with law.

When the devil is summoned, have the devil friendly and sociable. Make it clear that the devil's boon has no nasty drawbacks for the players' themselves, since it was a promise made during the vision in exchange for being summoned and nothing else. Devils always do their best to keep their word, although to get the boon, the players do need to break the protective wards around the summoning circle, letting the devil out.

If they free it, it does not attack them, and does not harm them. It has no ill will against them, even if they disagree with what it wants to do or suggests. In the immediate, the devil will defend itself, but it does not want to attack the player party, since it is in a position of mutual benefit with them and probably will continue to be so. The most devastating thing a devil can do to a player party is to talk to them.

Also have the devil mention that its willing to return the gem with the paladin's wife in it in exchange for ownership of the summoning artifact. The artifact could be a general summoning artifact that can be used to set up a presence on the prime material. It can only be activated by a mortal, but the devil wants possession of it so it can use it to summon a few trusted underlings with the aid of a mortal ally or two (the devil plans to acquire those allies after it is summoned). If they refuse that task in particular, have the devil be open to other options.

Apart from that, have the devil set up a new home on the prime material, a small area to rule over. If the player party opposes it, have the devil willing to talk with them as an associate and try to mediate any disputes, but still be clearly evil in its goals and agenda. If the party is good, they would not be able to compromise, but make the party make that decision for themselves.

Mr.Sandman
2013-12-25, 12:09 AM
How do Devils gain power in your world? Perhaps he is making a lot of Deals to gain prestige and power in Hell, but instaid intends to use those souls and power to create a new demiplane of his own, perhaps creating a new type of LE (or other) outsider along the way? Pathfinder has more than one type of evil outsider for their alignments, especially LE having Asura, Rakshasa, and Devils, perhaps that is how these beings came into existence as well, offshoot devils?

GenericGuy
2013-12-25, 02:27 AM
I'm reminded of that Kevin Smith movie "Dogma," where a low level demon's master plan was to completely unmake existence, as hell was just as grueling and unending for him as it was for the sinners.

Perhaps, given that devils are typically lawful, he has become disillusioned with the very idea that there will ever be order in the universe (good or bad), and seeks to put all of existence "out of its misery." Make him an absolute nihilist, whether or not he has been characterized as cool and collected, or maniacal trickster (a la Dark Knight's Joker). I'm not sure how Pathfinder's mythopoeia works, so perhaps someone else can give an idea of how this could be done.

Rhynn
2013-12-25, 02:35 AM
Perhaps, given that devils are typically lawful, he has become disillusioned with the very idea that there will ever be order in the universe (good or bad), and seeks to put all of existence "out of its misery." Make him an absolute nihilist, whether or not he has been characterized as cool and collected, or maniacal trickster (a la Dark Knight's Joker). I'm not sure how Pathfinder's mythopoeia works, so perhaps someone else can give an idea of how this could be done.

In one of Michael Moorcock's Elric novels, the Lords of Law are (or one of them is, rather) bringing ultimate order to one of the worlds of the multiverse by freezing every single thing in permanent stasis, one by one, personally.

(On the other side, in one of his Corum novels, there's a world taken over by Chaos that has literally exhausted every single possibility and frozen as a consequence. Both processes take something that roughly approximates eternity, but will eventually happen if one triumphs over the other.)

Moorcock's Eternal Champion multiverse, of course, is one of the sources of the whole Law/Chaos dichotomy (although D&D actually originally drew not on Moorcock, but on Poul Anderson and particularly Three Hearts and Three Lions, where D&D paladins also come from).

Envyus
2013-12-25, 01:10 PM
I would say Devil wise a Horned Devil would be a good fit for what he is.

Anyway he would not turn into a Demon but his bosses would try and kill him.

Slipperychicken
2013-12-25, 01:50 PM
Devils always plot to rise within the hierarchy of hell and become more powerful, so I think your BBEG would fit in.

Maybe his endgame is to establish a domain on the material and gain some sort of autonomy?

veti
2013-12-29, 04:33 PM
If a devil wants to escape (as opposed to 'rise in') the hierarchy of hell, then obviously he's gonna have to do it somewhere other than "in hell".

He could estabish a foothold on the Prime Material. Maybe do a deal with a mortal warlock or similar, betray him/her (i.e. BAU) and possess a mortal body, and in that guise start manipulating the PCs into carving out his own safe little enclave, where he can go undetected and undismissed indefinitely.