What would you say as a GM?

[Wacky89]

Ok so my player wants to use a Scroll of Planar Familiar on himself. I know the spell is intended for familiars, but it is any living creature.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011020a

I am myself a first time GM, what do you guys think?

[mephnick]

I'd probably just say "it's obviously meant for familiars, don't be dumb".

But, I don't go for RAW arguments very much, so I'm biased.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It's legal by RAW, but radically against RAI. If you want to get snarky, you could let him use the ritual and then give him the template's LA (+2).

On the other hand, it's granting a (probably useless) smite attempt, DR that gets bypassed by almost everything above low levels, some low resistances and low SR... it doesn't hurt, but it's probably not going to cause any major breakages... I'd give him a one-time XP penalty (500 ought to do it, coincidentally the cost of casting the spell normally) and let it work.

[WbtE]

Grod's correct. It's a slightly sleazy move, but the advantages are fairly trivial.

[Zanos]

By RAW he gains the template and assumes the LA for a creature with that template. I don't see a balance issue with that.

[Honest Tiefling]

If you are new, I'd lean to no. Especially if the rest of the party isn't doing this sort of thing. Then again, my first reaction to anything like this is to assume there's a scheme afoot...

[Urpriest]

It's not against RAI. There are specific things in the spell that happen only if the target is your familiar and don't happen otherwise, and the spell explicitly can't be applied to another person's familiar. That means it must have been intended to be usable on non-familiars.

[Invader]

It's not against RAI. There are specific than the spell that happen only if the target is your familiar and don't happen otherwise, and the spell explicitly can't be applied to another person's familiar. That means it must have been intended to be usable on non-familiars.

I can see how its also read as "If you cast this on a mount or animal companion this happens, if you cast it on your familiar this happens. But I can understand how it could be interpreted either way.

[BeerMug Paladin]

I'd allow it as a GM. Then I'd come up with amusing consequences depending on their class and usual interaction in society.

"When you enter the bar, the chatter quickly comes to a stop. Everyone looks at you, hands readied on their weapons." Everyone in a seedy bar assuming that the character is summoned in order to fulfil someone's purpose. In the right places, potentially everyone could be worried about something like this. Also, everyone might assume the character is an outsider and be annoyed. (Go back to your own plane!)

Have the character unable to clip their nails or cut their hair. Not that characters normally need to do these things, but if they have damage reduction, it should eventually be a hassle when they try doing it.

It's been a while since I've seen the templates involved, but I believe he would also be susceptible to things that target only outsiders as well. Spells like chaos hammer, and the associated things hurt more if you're an outsider, so it's not all beneficial from a mechanics standpoint.

[Bullet06320]

while it appears to meant for familars and companions, the reading allows for others to be able to receive the benefits.
I'd allow it

[Kelb_Panthera]

Sure.

They're eating the LA for the template but otherwise I don't see a problem.

Then again, I'd've let them start play as a creature with any of those templates anyway since I almost never start at level 1.

[Hurnn]

Not RAI but definitely RAW and unlike some I don't see why he should get the LA adjustment, it goes away with one dispel magic.

[Flickerdart]

Not RAI but definitely RAW and unlike some I don't see why he should get the LA adjustment, it goes away with one dispel magic.

No it doesn't; as an instantaneous effect the "magicness" of the spell goes away once it is cast.

[Hurnn]

You are right duration instantaneous not permanent, thats pretty stupid actually. Well done WoTC, well done.....

[Kelb_Panthera]

You are right duration instantaneous not permanent, thats pretty stupid actually. Well done WoTC, well done.....

That's not a mistake it's a deliberate choice for a different result. Instantaneous transmutations create permanent, non-dispellable effects just like instantaneous conjurations create their effect and are done; i.e. wall of stone.

This spell was -intended- to have its effect and be gone leaving the creature permanently, irreversibly altered.

[ngilop]

I don't see anything wrong with letting a player have this. But know youve opened teh doors to other random online spells in the future.

[MrNobody]

I think that a solution is provided my James Wyatt's introduction to the spell:


Have the usual familiars available to spellcasting characters become a little, well, too familiar? To liven things up in your campaign, we're offing three new familiar spells over the next three months. Add them to your heroes’ repertoires and watch the double-takes these faithful friends elicit! This month, planar familiar provides an out-of-this-world companion.

It's obvious to me that the writer intended the spell to be used on familiars and companions, not on characters: if this is said by the author, this has to be done.

[TuggyNE]

I think that a solution is provided my James Wyatt's introduction to the spell:



It's obvious to me that the writer intended the spell to be used on familiars and companions, not on characters: if this is said by the author, this has to be done.

Devil's advocate: given the informal language, can you be sure he was not merely addressing the party members of the newly templated PC? :smallwink:

[Brookshw]

Devil's advocate: given the informal language, can you be sure he was not merely addressing the party members of the newly templated PC? :smallwink:

yes, it was clearly meant to be used on the party members, but not their companions, glad they closed that loophole :smalltongue:

[eggynack]

By the RAW you can cast it on yourself. Also by the RAW, casting it on yourself does very little. I mean, it earns you a free subtype, but that's of pretty marginal benefit. Any other impact is locked behind the clause, "If the target creature is your familiar..." I don't even think this spell even necessarily has those extra effects on special mounts and animal companions, because those creatures are not a familiar. So, he can clearly cast it on himself, but that also clearly doesn't do much.

[sleepyphoenixx]

By the RAW you can cast it on yourself. Also by the RAW, casting it on yourself does very little. I mean, it earns you a free subtype, but that's of pretty marginal benefit. Any other impact is locked behind the clause, "If the target creature is your familiar..." I don't even think this spell even necessarily has those extra effects on special mounts and animal companions, because those creatures are not a familiar. So, he can clearly cast it on himself, but that also clearly doesn't do much.

That clause refers to the "it gets x,y,z as if it's HD = your character level". The template comes (arguably) before that, unless you count "becoming celestial/anarchic/etc." as just gaining the subtype. And in that case you'd be much better off just saying no outright.

I'd say he can cast it on himself. He gets the appropiate template, with LA. There's really no argument about dropping that imo.
I don't think celestial is worth 2 LA but if that's what he wants, let him.

[Zweisteine]

As written, it could be done, but you'd have to deal with the level adjustment. I would not recommend allowing the player to have a template, if only because you, as a starting DM, probably don't want to deal with the LA.

Also, does the player have a familiar/companion/special mount at all? The spell is quite clear that you must have one to cast it.