Advice on New 3.5 Character

[Claiff]

Hello! I've never posted here before. I was wondering if I could get some opinions/advice for a new character I'm making. My DM had us roll our stats IN ORDER, so these can't be moved around.

STR: 15
DEX: 14
CON: 11
INT: 14
WIS: 12
CHA: 11

My DM mentioned that the level cap might be around 6 for this campaign, so I was thinking I'd go 3 swashbuckler / 3 rogue or 4 sb / 2 r with TWF. However I hear that TWF (the book says I need 15 dex for TWF, but I don't think my DM noticed) is absolute **** compared to two-handed power attacking. Is that difference smaller at low levels? Should I scrap this build and try something else?

I was also trying to choose between dwarf and human (only standard races are allowed). I want dwarf for the spell save bonus, and because my CON is **** (not to mention getting to main-hand a dwarven waraxe). But I want human so I can start with TWF AND Travel Devotion.

ALSO, since all the PCs made their characters in secret, I wanted to play an evil character for a change. I was going to be lawful evil, and having a code of not helping people who are too dependent on others (weak). Does anyone have advice/stories about playing a lone evil character in a good party?

[Flickerdart]

High Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence? Looks like a Duskblade would work out very nicely for you, though a Ranger would also work ok. Remember that you get a stat bump at 4th level, so you could get that Strength to 16, which is respectable.

Low Constitution is a bit of a concern, so Dwarf is not a bad plan. Water Orc would actually turn you into a potent warrior without sabotaging your mentals, so consider that as an option.

[Zweisteine]

If you can use the arctic (and desert) template(s) from Dragon 306, you can get +2 Con for -2 Cha, which would make you a considerably better melee character.

I would recommend either Duskblade or Warblade for those stats. Rogue would be all right, but then the strength would probably be wasted.

[Waker]

Generally speaking, TWF is inferior to wielding a weapon in two hands for several reasons. You'll be dealing less damage per hit (Str vs Str 1.5, Power Attack 1:1 vs 1:2), have to spend more money to keep up with magic weapons since you need to enchant two weapons as opposed to one, have to invest in more feats (TWF, Improved, Greater vs Power Attack) as well as other little things like TWF suffering more against targets with DR.
With the stats you have, I'll agree that Duskblade and Warblade make excellent choices. You might also consider the Factotum as another option.

[Greenish]

You can make TWF work, but it requires a bit of effort. Also, if the level cap is at 6, it'd mean a rogue dip would lose the first iterative attack, meaning you don't actually have more attacks than the fighter guy despite burning feats and money on it.

A warblade might actually pull of the TWF, too. You may or may not want to get a double weapon for that, depending on your maneuver load-out.


Also, just because your DM doesn't know the rules doesn't mean you can just ignore them without asking.

[GameSpawn]

If you can find a way to consistently deal your sneak attack damage while full-attacking, two weapon fighting is worth it for a rogue, because you can add your sneak attack damage to both attacks, and with Swashbuckler 3, you'd add int to both as well. So for this kind of character, two weapon fighting is a perfectly viable choice (I recommend Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 3, to get the extra sneak attack damage).


You can make TWF work, but it requires a bit of effort. Also, if the level cap is at 6, it'd mean a rogue dip would lose the first iterative attack, meaning you don't actually have more attacks than the fighter guy despite burning feats and money on it.


This is true at level 6. Not so much at levels 1-5. Are you (Claiff) playing this character starting at level 1?


Also, just because your DM doesn't know the rules doesn't mean you can just ignore them without asking.

This. Ask your DM for a waiver. Play a race with a dex bonus. There's no reason to cheat.

[Flickerdart]

If you can find a way to consistently deal your sneak attack damage while full-attacking, two weapon fighting is worth it for a rogue, because you can add your sneak attack damage to both attacks, and with Swashbuckler 3, you'd add int to both as well. So for this kind of character, two weapon fighting is a perfectly viable choice (I recommend Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 3, to get the extra sneak attack damage).

3 levels for +2 to damage? Colour me unimpressed - he'd be better off taking Fighter 4 and picking Weapon Specialization, and Weapon Spec is notoriously poor.

[Metahuman1]

Grab 2 levels of Barbarian, then 4 levels of Warblade. Use a Two handed weapon, and the Barbarian Spirit Lion Totem and Wolf Totem AFC/Variant, respectively. Now, those stats. If at all possible, play a Water Orc and add The Arctic Template form Dragon 306 and the Dragonborn Template too this character. That's a + 6 Con and a +4 Str for a -2 to everything else except Cha which takes a -4. But with those D12 hit dice and 16 Con and that total 20 Str with a two handed weapon, this should work.

Last, get about 3 fine sized animated objects made with the weapons finesse feat. Hide them inside your armor were they can't be targeted. Have them give you aid another actions to off set the Power Attack Penalty, nab power attack, and always full power attack.

[Flickerdart]

Last, get about 3 fine sized animated objects made with the weapons finesse feat. Hide them inside your armor were they can't be targeted. Have them give you aid another actions to off set the Power Attack Penalty, nab power attack, and always full power attack.
Uh, what? The objects would have neither the reach nor the line of effect necessary to Aid Another on attack rolls. If you're going to try and cheese nanobots, at least read the rules first.

[GameSpawn]

3 levels for +2 to damage? Colour me unimpressed - he'd be better off taking Fighter 4 and picking Weapon Specialization, and Weapon Spec is notoriously poor.

I wasn't recommending taking 3 levels of Swashbuckler for the int to damage, I was simply saying int to damage made twf better, and was recommending swashbuckler 3/rogue 3 over swashbuckler 4/rogue 2 (the two options presented in the OP). Swashbuckler gives you weapon finesse, better skills than the fighter and better BAB and hit dice than the rogue, which is what it's for. Fighter 4 would be worse, because the character would lose more sneak attack damage (and would be restricted to a single weapon).

The real advantage of swashbuckler, however, is the daring outlaw feat from complete scoundrel. As far as I'm aware, there's no equivalent feat for fighter.

[Phelix-Mu]

Making nanobots can also benefit from asking being Tippy. Some of his ideas involving sentient blocks of granite with planar bubble and levels of psion hurt my brain in the best possible way.

But such tips are pretty much terrible advice for anyone without considerable levels of system mastery.

I'll pitch the idea of dwarf warblade. There are some pretty interesting low-op options for a heavily armoured dwarf, and they certainly have the rep for being right in the heat of combat. ToB maneuvers will allow you to add some flair to your "swing swing" combat routine, and open up some interesting options for lockdown or (slightly) more effective use of an einhander or sword/board fighting style.

Dwarves also have a rep for being both fairly lawful in general. Combine this with a miserly or racist mindset, and you can easily arrive at a fairly straightforward LE concept.

Beware being the lone evil character, though, or even the lone neutral character with an evil streak. Deceiving the good-aligned members is definitely possible at low levels, but you are highly dependent on teamwork at those levels, and can't afford too much alienation. Some ranks in Bluff are pretty much mandatory. Finally, if your real nature is discovered, that can easily lead to the evil character being drummed out of the campaign by popular consensus among the other pcs.

[Flickerdart]

Swashbuckler gives you weapon finesse, better skills than the fighter and better BAB and hit dice than the rogue, which is what it's for. Fighter 4 would be worse, because the character would lose more sneak attack damage (and would be restricted to a single weapon).
Weapon Finesse is useless for this character, since his Str and Dex mods are equal. Swashbucklers have awful skills anyway, so the extra points don't help much. And two extra feats are better than +1d6 SA because you can Power Attack and deal damage that people actually care about.

[Ydaer Ca Noit]

Do you care about skills?

If I wanted to go with two weapon fighting I would consider the thug-sneak attack fighter variant, maybe thug 3/ranger 2/ and something with good BAB? You would be at full BAB this way

[Claiff]

Hey guys, thanks for all of the responses. I was busy with Christmas so I am just now seeing them all.

I took a look at Duskblade and am liking it so far.

My DM hates munchkins so...
Spiked chain is banned. I intend to use a guisarme. No templates are allowed, and only the basic races from PH1 (so no water orc).

Also, my DM forced us all so to roll random traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm)

My character rolled easygoing, and I wasn't really interested in trying to be easygoing AND lawful evil. I was considering trying out chaotic or neutral evil, and just casually being evil at my convenience. aka, "I vote we murder him", or "torture is OK by me".

I was intending to go human and start power attack + versatile spellcaster, and so I could use the bonus skill points to up my knowledge devotion (which I'll take at level 3). However, my DM told me that he was going to let spellcasters use cantrips as much as they want, so he would have to disallow me from using two level 0 spells to cast level 1 spells. Can anyone recommend another good level 1 feat? Or maybe I should just go dwarf? I'm not sure how much the lower base speed affects melee characters.

Here is my character sheet in progress
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvzuoHI-WBWldEFySmluSzdxVHNSYmtlR2x1Y1BhLXc#gid=0

[Xerlith]

I would advise you to take your first level in Warblade instead of Duskblade, by the virtue of 4 additional HP - you don't have them in abundance with your 11 CON.

Warblade1/Duskblade5 qualifies for Jade Phoenix Mage (if you don't mind being Chaotic Neutral instead of Evil) or Ebon Phoenix Mage (if you mind not being evil).

Warblade will let you emulate the Two Weapon Fighting feat for a bit if you want (Wolf Fang Strike), boost your survivability etc. And if you cap out at 6th level, your 1st level maneuvers won't hinder you too much.

If you do go 2WFing warblade, the Rapid Assault feat from ToB isn't that bad early on - it becomes completely useless later though.

If you go with a reach weapon (glaive for example), a nice option would be Combat Reflexes. Remember to grab as piked gauntlet to threaten the adjacent squares as well.