Alignment and maneuvers.

[Stux]

Hey guys,

So when you cast spells with an alignment descriptor you aren't allowed to have the opposed alignment, but you don't have to have the specified alignment. So Neutral characters can cast Evil spells, but Good characters can't. Correct?

Does the same apply to ToB martial maneuvers? I always assumed so, but reading a Crusader handbook it was implied heavily that to use Aura of Perfect Order you have to be actually Lawful, not just non-chaotic. Is this the case? I can't find the relevant rule if so, though I may just be being blind!

Thank you for any help!

[Yuki Akuma]

Only Clerics are restricted by their alignment (or the alignment of their god). Everyone else can cast any spell of any alignment they please.

Crusader, unlike Cleric, has no text indicating they can't use maneuvers opposed to their alignment. So they can.

[Setra]

Only Clerics are restricted by their alignment (or the alignment of their god). Everyone else can cast any spell of any alignment they please.

Crusader, unlike Cleric, has no text indicating they can't use maneuvers opposed to their alignment. So they can.

Crusader itself has no text, but the prerequisites for the maneuvers do require a proper alignment in order to take them. Not the stances though, oddly enough.

[Yuki Akuma]

Crusader itself has no text, but the prerequisites for the maneuvers do require a proper alignment in order to take them. Not the stances though, oddly enough.

They do? Huh. So they do.

Well then, there's your answer. You can use the stances if you're the wrong alignment, but not the maneuvers.

But seriously a Good Wizard can cast Animate Dead just fine. Only some divine casters have blanket rules about this and I'm 99% sure it's just the Cleric.

[Stux]

So I can even be Chaotic and take Aura of Perfect Order? Very interesting.

[hymer]

Only some divine casters have blanket rules about this and I'm 99% sure it's just the Cleric.

Speaking as a druid player, my NG druid cannot cast [Evil] spells. Not that I'd want to. I think regularly casting spells of an opposed alignment causes serious fluff problems in most cases. Even a neutral caster using a lot of [Evil] spells should go on the watch list for descending into an evil alignment, though the spells alone will not do it.

[Slipperychicken]

Casting [Evil] spells is an Evil act (and I believe the same goes for the other 3 alignments). Good people can do evil acts without immediately turning evil. So can Neutrals. And vice versa -Evil characters can do good acts without immedately turning Good.

See? That wasn't hard.


So I can even be Chaotic and take Aura of Perfect Order? Very interesting.

Yeah. The alignment descriptors on maneuvers doesn't actually restrict them to any alignments. I think that using [Lawful] maneuvers/stances like Aura of Perfect Order, for example, isn't called out as a [Lawful] act, nor is there a restriction in place.

[hymer]

Casting [Evil] spells is an Evil act

I was going to write that exact same thing, but I couldn't actually find anything to back it up in the section on spell descriptors.

[Slipperychicken]

I was going to write that exact same thing, but I couldn't actually find anything to back it up in the section on spell descriptors.

BoVD, page 8. "Casting Evil Spells".

Also,


CASTING EVIL SPELLS
Evil spells may create undead, inflict undue suffering, harm
another’s soul, or produce any of a slew of similar effects.
Sometimes, a nonevil spellcaster can get away with casting
a few evil spells, as long as he or she does not do so for an
evil purpose. But the path of evil magic leads quickly to corruption
and destruction. Spells with corruption costs (see
Corrupt Magic in Chapter 6) are so evil that they take a
physical and spiritual toll on the caster.

[hymer]

Much obliged. If I had a hat on, I'd raise it. :smallsmile:

[LadyLexi]

Speaking as a neutral evil wizard. I'll cast good spells if I feel like it. I'll resurrect a city of good aligned heroes if I feel like it (If I had the means to). I'm evil, I spit in the face of the gods and their petty "rules".

[Zweisteine]

Casting [Evil] spells is an Evil act (and I believe the same goes for the other 3 alignments).

Casting good, lawful, and chaotic spells are evil acts? This could interfere with my cleric quite a bit...


Casting Evil spells, and possible using Evil maneuvers, is an evil act, so doing so excessively if good will cause an alignment shift at least to neutral, if not further towards evil. Corresponding effects go along with using otherwise aligned abilities.

[Stux]

Even though its not RAW, my DM, and myself when I am DMing, tend to lean towards the motives defining alignment rather than actual actions.

If there was a flat out rule saying you can't do it then my DM likely wouldn't allow it, but if as it seems is a fairly vague "using this ability has a tendency towards that alignment" kind of thing then that is probably fine, as long as it is morally justifiable in terms of the character's alignment.

[Yuki Akuma]

Speaking as a neutral evil wizard. I'll cast good spells if I feel like it. I'll resurrect a city of good aligned heroes if I feel like it (If I had the means to). I'm evil, I spit in the face of the gods and their petty "rules".

That's Chaotic, not Evil.

Being an atheist isn't Evil. There are Evil gods with Evil worshippers.

Alignments also have very little to do with gods. Good and Evil are cosmic forces, not beings.

[Slipperychicken]

Casting Evil spells, and possible using Evil maneuvers, is an evil act, so doing so excessively if good will cause an alignment shift at least to neutral, if not further towards evil. Corresponding effects go along with using otherwise aligned abilities.

BoVD also has a section on "Tapping Evil Power", so using an [Evil] maneuver or stance should qualify as such.

[LadyLexi]

That's Chaotic, not Evil.

Being an atheist isn't Evil. There are Evil gods with Evil worshippers.

Alignments also have very little to do with gods. Good and Evil are cosmic forces, not beings.

Chaotic. Lawful. I'm just the girl with the fireball.

[Slipperychicken]

Speaking as a neutral evil wizard. I'll cast good spells if I feel like it. I'll resurrect a city of good aligned heroes if I feel like it (If I had the means to). I'm evil, I spit in the face of the gods and their petty "rules".
Chaotic. Lawful. I'm just the girl with the fireball.

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120612231832/borderlands/images/9/9b/Watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

[Psyren]

Resurrecting good heroes might not work out for you - they still have to agree to come back, and raising spells generally transmit the caster's alignment to the soul being raised.