Druids of the Far Realm: Fluff and Approach

[Xuldarinar]

Simply wishing to start a discussion on the subject: How would you go about creating and fleshing out a druid who's bond is not with nature but with the Far Realm?

[Norin]

Look into planar shepherd?

[GreenSerpent]

Well, Aberrant Wild Shape is going to be in there somewhere...

[Slipperychicken]

I would probably go Cleric with madness/insanity domain (Do Druids get domains?), and sworn service to Elder Evils for bonus feats.

You'd probably have to homebrew something to get a pseudonatural Animal Companion, though. Also, don't cut corners with the description of this thing. You'll probably want to re-read Lovecraft before describing it.

Also, cast Planar Bubble (Sorc/Wiz 7, Cleric 7) keyed to the Far Realm. Make anyone who gets within 10 feet of you make immediate saves against insanity.

I'd probably take Willing Deformity (Madness) and Insane Defiance too. Both are [Vile] feats from Elder Evils.

[Brookshw]

I'd probably start with refluffing alienist.

[Xuldarinar]

Some interesting approaches. Personally, here is what i'd do:


Druidic Avenger Variant (UA)
Possibly tack on the house rule listed on page 68 of UA, giving druids access to domains. Instead of using their list however, I think I'd want to use the Madness domain.


As far as feats go, Frantic Rage would be a tempting first level feat in that case, which in those circumstances could be taken at 1st level. Aberrant feats, particularly Aberration Wild Shape (best taken at 6th), certainly fits the bill here. Cerebrosis (Dragon 330), would fit things quite well flavor wise, and thankfully (or unfortunately) does not take the place of any feats we may otherwise attain. Anything normally taken by a druid is worth consideration at the very least in this situation as well.

As far as prestige classes go, Planar Shepard certainly can fit the bill, as can alienist, though the latter would need some adjustments to function properly with druid. Familiar abilities would have no use, so possibly make all of it's class features affecting familiars affect animal companions, though this would still make no difference for a Druidic Avenger. Summon Alien would need adjusted slightly to work instead with Summon Nature's Ally. I'd say toss in wild shape advancement onto the class, but I am not so sure. Fleshwarper could be altered similarly to help promote a similar effect. Most druid prestige classes could certainly work with this, though some refluffing may be required at times. Perhaps a Druid/(Something Arcane)/Arcane Hierophant/Alienist would do well, the only real adjustment would have to be expanding Summon Alien. Blighter might serve the purpose well to an extent, though its far from optimized blighters can become Planar Shepherds and Cerebrosis would provide some much needed expansion to their spells known.

Aspect of Nature druids could certainly fit as well, though some refluffing would do it a lot of good in that effort. While they would technically still would qualify for Aberration Wild Shape, I am not certain how it would do in terms of interactions. One would likely have to come up with that on their own.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The problem i see is that the druid list doesn't really fit thematically. Giving it the wizard list would work better fluffwise but would make the wizard obsolete.

Perhaps a limited list would work, on the same chassis as a druid (d8 hp, 4+int sp). Replace Wild Shape with Aberration Shape, replace Animal Companion with some kind of tentacle monster, reflavor other abilities to fit the Far Realm flavor.
Since aberrations are generally more powerful than animals you'd have to fiddle with the balance a little but the basic idea should be workable, with the biggest problem being the spell list.

[Xuldarinar]

The altered spell list does make a lot of sense. It would take some work to figure out an appropriate one but the adjustments would certainly be worth it.

[eggynack]

The problem i see is that the druid list doesn't really fit thematically.
This, basically. There's maybe a handful of aberration themed spells out there, and none of them are very good. They get aberrant wild shape, but that's a feat rather than a whole character. Theming out a druid is all about proper application of the list, and I don't think the list is there.

[Xuldarinar]

This, basically. There's maybe a handful of aberration themed spells out there, and none of them are very good. They get aberrant wild shape, but that's a feat rather than a whole character. Theming out a druid is all about proper application of the list, and I don't think the list is there.

Granted. The only solutions there are adjusting the list (DMG discusses this), or finding ways of to add spells (Some PrCs and Feats such as Cerebrosis).

Blighters are a little better in this regard but not to a degree that they become desirable when the word Optimization comes to the table. Planar Shepherd could certainly bring them up a ways though..

[daremetoidareyo]

Simply wishing to start a discussion on the subject: How would you go about creating and fleshing out a druid who's bond is not with nature but with the Far Realm?

DM assumes that natures ally can replace summon monster. DM also allows a modified Ashbound feat: (2x nature ally duration + a scaling luck bonus to attacks and damages of creatures summoned) Level 1-4 +1, level 5-9 +2, level 10+ +3bonus) (prereq spell focus summoning, augment summoning) The animal companion has the same benefits as the familiar and levels stack as far as animal companion traits are concerned. You still get the wisdom drain at level 2 of alienist. You need to take legit druid levels for wildshape advancement. You can take aberrant shapeshift as one of the bonus metamagic feats for alienist. You may also take ocular spells without the prerequisites in the place of a bonus metamagic feat for alienist. All spells that affect animals you can use to affect aberrations with an intelligence of 5 and below. i.e. natures fang, speak with animal, share animal mind.

I took imbued summoning as a feat at sixth level and became the scariest conjurer around:

2 level three slots
Summon Nat Ally 2 for 1d3 wolves+charge of triceratops
With true strike + charge, or truestrike with a bite attack + str. bonus from augment summoning, you can mess up a medium sized opponent. the + 4 armor class is nice too.

Summon Nat Ally 2 crocodile + babau slime (planar book)
Sick this improved grab monster with a bite at +10 and +6 grapple right next to a dude with armor or good items and let nature dissolve those pesky armors.

1 3rd level + 1 2nd level slot
Summon nat ally 2: Squid + fins to feet
Grapple a spell caster indefinitely. Ink cloud needs to be worked out with dm before hand. (I wanted it to blind its grapple victim, dm said no) I love this mental picture though.

Summon nat ally 2: medium viper + venomfire
A poisonous creature summoned into conflict with someone. With truestrike (total of +24 to hit) the venom damage is 1d4+4 +Caster level X 1d6, and victim has to make a fort save DC 11 or have 1d6 constitution damage. Scarier than a fireball.

2 2nd level slots
Summon nat ally 1: Eagle + jaws of the moray
Grapple a spell caster or tie up physically weak ranged opponents.


Lastly, it never got to be used, but When you can summon 1d4+1 abberrant dire weasels + mountain stance or something that gives them magic enhancements and sick alll of them on a large creature, you can pretty easily constitution damage the hell out of something if you are also hitting them with poison or infestation of maggots at the same time. Those first 5 levels of druid let you take the damage to get in close like that.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I almost certainly wouldn't use Druid as the base class. And I'd want some Warshaper in there, probably.

[Rubik]

You could always just refluff the druid spells once he hits planar shepherd, while keeping the mechanics the same. Entangle, for instance, calls forth bestial tentacled plants with eyes and fang'd maws that wrap around anything that enters their area.

[...]

1. Add aberrant wild shape as a bonus feat, and give him an aberration animal companion of suitable CR.

2. Mess with the spell list a lot. A LOT.

3. ???

4. Profit!

[Vhaidara]

Ilithid Savant who ate a Druid.

[Lord Haart]

Are we talking a druid who is linked with Far Realms instead of or in addition to the powers of nature, or a druid who simply thinks Far Realms are rad and themes his spellcasting (and possibly other class features) after them?

If former, it's kinda like a politician who is linked with fluorine-dominated atmospheres instead of or in addition to the popular vote. If second, it's kinda like a politician who simply thinks fluorine-dominated atmospheres are rad and themes his speeches after them.

[daremetoidareyo]

Are we talking a druid who is linked with Far Realms instead of or in addition to the powers of nature, or a druid who simply thinks Far Realms are rad and themes his spellcasting (and possibly other class features) after them?

If former, it's kinda like a politician who is linked with fluorine-dominated atmospheres instead of or in addition to the popular vote. If second, it's kinda like a politician who simply thinks fluorine-dominated atmospheres are rad and themes his speeches after them.

Roleplaying wise: A very openminded druid could assume that aberrations from the far realms are simply a different type of nature and they want to figure it out and expand their worldview beyond the binary of local vs foreign. Just because they are gross doesn't mean that they are necessarily evil or unnatural. By having this uncatalogued group of creatures from far away, the druid is attracted to the rarity and unique specialness of the critters that hail from those realms, like the way real modern entomologists love the strangeness of the insects. The cthulu type god could be seen like any foreign intense power: reviled for their strangeness...or perhaps as an evil exile from a far more neutral realm that is scary solely because of the inability of prime material's mind to comprehend it. With understanding comes power and eventually...integration into the grandest natural order of them all.

[Fax Celestis]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?41214-Build-The-Pauper-of-Smack

Enjoy.

[Phelix-Mu]

Hmm. Well, actually, I'd say that this can mostly be done with refluffing. First a look at ethos and mentality.

Ethos/Mentality: Johnson apples dodge-splat and earn monkies. Profit? Haha, tragic jelly builds antlers of muscle to defy Euclidean geometry.

In short, the mindset of a druid of the Far Realm should be sanity-lite. Not chaotic, mind you. For chaos opposes order, and supposes a lack thereof. The Far Realm isn't devoid of order, but possessed of a nature that is simply alien to creatures of the normal multiverse.

In terms of concrete role play, I'd go for lots of optimization-free behavior that emphasizes inscrutable, bizarre, and unrelatable. Like trying to eat soup with a fork, to no avail, only to then realize that the proper way to eat soup with a fork is to puncture holes in the bowl and let it drip into one's mouth. Secret nonsense that bizarrely makes sense, but only to those that know the secret (psst...DON'T SHARE THE SECRET).

Now for mechanics.

Well, I'd go for trying to talk the DM into a very aggressive form of Spell Thematics, even taking that feat as a gesture to game balance and *snicker* logic. Here are some examples of seriously refluffed druid spells that might fulfill the desired fluff.

Entangle: Worms emerge from the ground and entangle foes in the AoE. Compromise: Only works in areas with organic ground, thus not deserts or the like where there is no humus in the earth (to make up for skirting the plantlife clause of entangle).

Plant Growth: Purple apples with the texture of slimy, uncooked chicken grow from all plants in the area. These are edible and nutritious, if totally disgusting, and they accumulate underfoot and contort the plants, causing vegetation to impede movement (and look gross).

Summon swarm: Small, exotically shaped pudding molds arrive and jiggle in an extremely distracting manner, driven by some deeply disturbing subsonic vibration in the area. If desired, they can also fly (or have any of the other traits of any of the other swarms that can be chosen...in short, they just look REALLY weird, and otherwise have the statistics of insect swarms).

Commune with nature: Small, pinkish crystals spray from the caster's bloody eyeballs (inflicting no damage), and scatter on the wind, glittering with an eerie beauty. They spread across the area of the spell, growing on everything (harmless). The tiny grains vibrate with a maddening sussurus, whispering knowledge to one another until the information makes it back to the caster's eyeballs. (Yes, your eyeballs are listening to the pink salt's whispers).

Summon nature's ally: As per the normal spell, but roll 1d4. Roll 1d6 the number of times indicated on the d4 and consult the following table, combining multiple results, rerolling duplicates (or coming up with some bizarro synergy!):

1: Creatures summoned have inverted bodies (feet where hands would be, ears for eyes, flapping legs instead of wings). This has no mechanical impact.

2: Creatures summoned move backwards and gibber maddly, and spray multicolored ooze whenever injured, dissolving into ooze when the spell ends.

3: Creatures summoned emerge from the caster's body like buds, starting as miniature, doll-like shapes that grow to full size and separate.

4: Creatures resemble the caster, but in one hue of the rainbow (role 1d8).

5: Instead of normal attacks or actions, the creature vomits/regurgitates it's actions, which the result of the action emerging from within the creature.

6: Creatures are made of a mercury-like liquid that condenses from the atmosphere.

[afroakuma]

I almost certainly wouldn't use Druid as the base class.

This. Very much this. Even just translating druid ideas to the Far Realm doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense on a 1:1 basis, and not in a Far Realm-esque "making no sense" fashion.

[Xuldarinar]

This. Very much this. Even just translating druid ideas to the Far Realm doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense on a 1:1 basis, and not in a Far Realm-esque "making no sense" fashion.

As much as I love some of the suggestions above that do refluff or use the druid to start from, I would love to hear what class you'd recommend as the starting point for a potential equivalent.

[afroakuma]

As much as I love some of the suggestions above that do refluff or use the druid to start from, I would love to hear what class you'd recommend as the starting point for a potential equivalent.

I wouldn't. I'd homebrew a class to the specifications, whatever they may be. I don't think "equivalent" really applies here. Dread necromancer might be an amusing skeleton (no pun intended) to tweak to a Far Realms theme with a spell list overhaul. Druid... not so much.

[Phelix-Mu]

I dunno, afro. The basic concept of druid is to protect a concept of some kind that is divorced from the normal alignment axis. The typical fluff is "nature," but nature is radically open to interpretation in a game with magic, monsters, and beings that represent elemental concepts of the cosmos (outsiders, elementals, etc).

It might, just might, be possible that some druid has gotten it into one's head that the Far Realm is the state/concept that needs defending. Maybe the druid believes that the Prime is actually a perverse mutation of the Far Realm, with it's stupid ideas like "logic" and "form." The Far Realm is the true state of reality, and all must be returned to the burbling leaf-ooze vultures of Bob's your uncle.

In short, because a druid's doctrine may or may not be based in anyone's actual doctrine (although there is a "druid organization, they embrace wildly different viewpoints and methods), it doesn't really have to be true. A druid might believe that disease is the only way to cleanse the Prime of these annoying sentients that threaten "nature"; whether this belief is accurate or not is irrelevant. As long as that druid is neutral in some respect, this is a valid belief for the druid to labor under.

I agree that the spell list is problematic, but I think you could refluff enough of the problematic parts and enjoy the on-flavor stuff (baleful polymorph, disease, poison, etc).

[afroakuma]

I dunno, afro. The basic concept of druid

I don't know that I can agree with that interpretation. Druids in D&D have always been tied in some fashion or other to "nature," in whatever sense.

Anyway, my larger point was that I don't think the druid's powers (not just the particular spell list, but the class abilities) are apropos for a Far Realm connection, nor would the easiest tweak (animal? ABERRATION!) work well, since many aberrations have nothing to do with the Far Realm and you'd get "druids" wild-shaping into athach.

[...]

I don't know that I can agree with that interpretation. Druids in D&D have always been tied in some fashion or other to "nature," in whatever sense.

Anyway, my larger point was that I don't think the druid's powers (not just the particular spell list, but the class abilities) are apropos for a Far Realm connection, nor would the easiest tweak (animal? ABERRATION!) work well, since many aberrations have nothing to do with the Far Realm and you'd get "druids" wild-shaping into athach.

Where DID athach come from anyways? Most other abberations in the Monster Manual have origin stories, but not the athach.

[Rubik]

Where DID athach come from anyways? Most other abberations in the Monster Manual have origin stories, but not the athach.See, when a mommy athach and a daddy athach love each other very much, the daddy athach makes touch attacks to start grappling...

[Phelix-Mu]

I just wanted to point out that "nature" is super vague, and a given druid can pursue pretty much any given method in pursuit of defending their vision of it that they can come up with. As long as at least some aspect of their behavior is neutral. There is even less in core about the "druids" and their organization than there is about the core deities' churches.

[...]

See, when a mommy athach and a daddy athach love each other very much, the daddy athach makes touch attacks to start grappling...

At least it isn't as scary as what Mind Flayers do...

But seriously, were they magical experiments or what?

[Rubik]

At least it isn't as scary as what Mind Flayers do...

But seriously, were they magical experiments or what?I'm sure "magic" of some sort was involved.

Hence the touch-attacks.

[...]

I'm sure "magic" of some sort was involved.

Hence the touch-attacks.

*sigh* You know what I mean, Rubik...