Blood Spiked Charger Build (Advice please)

[Vhaidara]

So I'm experimenting with Blood Spiked Charger (PH2 Tactical Feat). The source of this is that I've played Dragon Age: Origins recently and it always makes me want to build a sword and board badass. In this case, I'm ditching the sword for some pointy armor.

Starting ECL will be around 12-13, but I'm a level back from buyoff XP loss

Character Sheet (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=744193)

Here's what I'm thinking so far:
Race: Half-Ogre (Races of Destiny). Buyoff is legal in my group, and the combination of large and massive Str has great synergy with the build.
Decided to add the Mineral Warrior template (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e)

Ability Scores:
At the moment I used my standard point buy to generate (after racial mods)
Str 26 (28 after level points)
Dex 12
Con 22
Int 6
Wis 12
Cha 6

Class: Ranger 2 (for TWF without the DEX) into Fighter (backporting the PF versions for both)
Possibly into some prestige.
I am also considering a barbarian dip for rage into Frenzied Berzerker

ACFs: These (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275054)

Feats
Power Attack: Key for doing damage, also mass prereq
Improved Bull Rush: prereq
Shock Trooper (Complete Warrior): It is a charge build, after all
Weapon Focus(Spiked Shield and Spiked Armor): Prereq on BSC
Blood Spiked Charger [BSC] (Player's Handbook 2): Focus of the build. Lets me add x2 my Str bonus as additional damage to spiked shield and armor on a charge. That's on top of the Str bonus already being applied.
Knockback (Races of Stone):Let's me bull rush off of a power attack hit. Explained in the combos.
Two Weapon Fighting: I'm getting this through Combat Style for now to reduce my penalty for attacking with armor and shield in the BSC
Improved Shield Bash: not really useful on the charge since I dump my AC with Shock Trooper, but useful in followup rounds.

Equipment: Heavy Spiked Steel Shield and Breastplate for now. I can't go for heavy armor right now because of combat style. Both sets of spikes ate currently +1 valorous
Getting the best Str enhancing items possible (Belt +6, and the +5 book is a prize), otherwise movement and flight are my priorities on non-weapon stuff.
Winged Mask for Fly at will, which lets me dungeoncrash them into the ground.

Combo: There is one primary combo for this character, which is his initiation charge.

1. Find an enemy within charging range next to a wall.
2. Charge, using Spiked Avalanche from BSC to attack with both armor and shield. Power Attack for full, using Heedless Assault from Shock Trooper to tank my AC instead of my to hit.
3. Hit with shield (order is for cinematic effect), dealing normal damage plus an additional x 2 Str bonus.
4. Knockback gives me a free Bull Rush, knocking them into the wall (I will win. Large, IBR, Power Attack Bonus, Full BAB, and a Massive Str)
5. The Bull Rush into the wall triggers Dungeoncrasher, dealing 6d8 + 3 x Str bonus
6. Hit with armor spikes, also benefiting from BSC
7. Knockback triggers
8. Dungeoncrasher triggers

Final Total: (2 hits at full PA) x 2 + 17 x Str mod + (weapon damage) x 2 + 12d8.


So, anyone have any advice? The set parts of the build are:
1. Using BSC. It's just so badass.
2. No mounts.
3. No casting. It seriously doesn't match a character who has an 8 in Int and Cha.

[Vhaidara]

Bump.

Anyone? Please?

[Rebel7284]

Isn't there a feat somewhere to daze with a shield bash? That seems like it would fit.

[Vhaidara]

Good call.

I've also decided to add on Mineral Warrior. It slows down my LA buyoff, but I can still buy the whole thing off by 20 and the stats are good.

[tyckspoon]

Isn't there a feat somewhere to daze with a shield bash? That seems like it would fit.

Shield Slam, which requires Shield Charge and Improved Shield Bash. Shield Charge and Shield Slam are both pretty good feats (Shield Charge gives you a free trip attack when you charge somebody with your shield, Shield Slam adds on a Daze.. although the way it's worded I think it's an incompatible action with a 'normal' charge. Ask your DM if you decide to go for it.) Improved Shield Bash is just an annoying feat tax for this build, tho; Shock Trooper charging means you have already decided you don't really care about your AC, so preserving your Shield bonus when you hit with it is mostly irrelevant.

[Vhaidara]

I don't mind taking it. My DMs use my dice, which have a weird loyalty thing: they roll badly for me, and roll well for other people, except when other people are rolling against me. And since the shield is my primary weapon, after I charge I'll still be bashing people.

Updating OP with new info and a myth weavers link. Using a more 3.pf system.

[Zanfire]

There's half minatour from dragon that's la 0 if you're already large I believe that is often combined with half ogre for ridiculous str and you could dip martial monk for two bonus fighter feats without meeting the prerequs. Depending on how many fighter levels you're taking could take overwhelming attack afc at 16th for double damage (unless you're full attacking) or decisive strike afc on top of the monk for the same thing (but slightly worse).

[Vhaidara]

Do you know the exact stats on Half minotaur? Not sure I can afford to drop any more Int or Cha (currently at 6 on both).

Using Grod's tweaks, I get the PH2 acfs for free 1 level early.

Is martial Monk from Dragon?

[Baroknik]

Have you considered combining this with warforged juggernaut?

5 levels would bank you:
+2d6 dmg on a charge (if medium)
Armor spike damage = 1d8
+5 to bull rush/break doors
+2 to hit on charge (total +4)
Construct immunities
+5ft move speed on a charge
+1d8+STR dmg on any successful bull rush

Drawbacks:
No curing/potions
-5 to social skills

[Vhaidara]

Not really. The stats from Mineral Warrior Half Ogre (+8 Str, +6 Con) along with large size just beat out the warforged benefits a little too handily. Especially if I can make it a Mineral Warrior Half Ogre/Half Minotaur.

Being large already gives me 1d8 on the armor spikes, and I plan to pick up Powerful Charge and Greater Powerful Charge at later levels.

[Jurai]

No love for Cometary Collision, also from PH2?

[Vhaidara]

Maybe later in the build, but I would probably take Improved Initiative first. The idea of this guy is to slam them into a wall and turn them to paste. If they get to start charging, I can't do that.

[Jurai]

Cometary Collision lets you charge into someone charging, IIRC, and therefore could be useful against other chargers.

[Vhaidara]

Yes, but it requires me to ready my action to charge them. Why not just charge them myself and get my bonus damage from dunegoncrasher (total 12d8 +x Str mod?

I have Boots of Striding and Springing, so I have 40ft movement, giving me an 80ft charge. Plus, I'm large, which gives me reach. I outrange most chargers at this level.

[Zanfire]

Do you know the exact stats on Half minotaur? Not sure I can afford to drop any more Int or Cha (currently at 6 on both).

Using Grod's tweaks, I get the PH2 acfs for free 1 level early.

Is martial Monk from Dragon?

Yes martial monk is also from dragon, I'm afb ATM but I can look them up later and get back to you. I forget the exact issue numbers off the top of my head.

[Vhaidara]

I think you mean afm (away from magazine) :P

Also, I just wanted to give everyone a laugh.
The group this guy would be joining includes a 1000lb whale man (the player was new and eyeballed the weight, it's a medium + powerful build homebrew). He's our main frontliner. On a charge where i knockback him (probably my introduction), at minimum (I roll 1 he rolls 20) I win the bull rush. At max (I get 20, he gets 1) I knock him 40 feet backwards.

Yes, I send a 1000lbs whale-man flying 40 feet through the air.

And this is without half minotaur

[Zanfire]

Martial monk is in issue #310 iirc

[Vhaidara]

Dang. i think my friend's issues end at 303-305.

Do you have the stats on half minotaur/know where online I can find them?

[Zanfire]

I don't know if I have them, but when I get a chance I'll be more than happy to look, but if you don't feel like waiting I was just gonna start with 4share they usually have some links

[Vhaidara]

Okay, so the trick is taking human, applying half minotaur to it (Increases to large and always has +1 LA), then you apply the half ogre template from the same issue (bonuses apply, only has LA if the base creature wasn't large).

So it isn't a free template, it makes the half ogre template free. But since half ogre has been officially published as a non-template, I believe that invalidates the Dragon Half ogre.

[Zanfire]

Okay, so the trick is taking human, applying half minotaur to it (Increases to large and always has +1 LA), then you apply the half ogre template from the same issue (bonuses apply, only has LA if the base creature wasn't large).

So it isn't a free template, it makes the half ogre template free. But since half ogre has been officially published as a non-template, I believe that invalidates the Dragon Half ogre.

I thought the reprint of the half ogre was a race not a template so they were technically different things?

[Vhaidara]

I would say that one half ogre replaces the other.

Mostly to stop myself from applying the half ogre template to my half ogre mineral warrior or free. A half ogre Half Ogre? Sound a little cheesy to you? :smalltongue:

And as far as redoing it into half minotaur + half ogre, again, it's applying 2 half templates, which means that the base creature shouldn't be in the relationship.

EDIT: Hilarious option is to build up to Driving Attack (PH2). Full round action, single attack with a piercing weapon gives me a bull rush, but instead of my Str bonus, I use my entire damage bonus. Which is currently +26 (Collision weapon). Without Power Attack. So a fully power attacked and with large size bonus, I'm at +40 on my bull rush.

[FrznTear]

Taking levels in crusader for charging maneuvers with Spiked Avalanche could boost your damage a bit.

Someone else did a build based off of this feat.
http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3670451

[Zanfire]

I would say that one half ogre replaces the other.

Mostly to stop myself from applying the half ogre template to my half ogre mineral warrior or free. A half ogre Half Ogre? Sound a little cheesy to you? :smalltongue:

And as far as redoing it into half minotaur + half ogre, again, it's applying 2 half templates, which means that the base creature shouldn't be in the relationship.

EDIT: Hilarious option is to build up to Driving Attack (PH2). Full round action, single attack with a piercing weapon gives me a bull rush, but instead of my Str bonus, I use my entire damage bonus. Which is currently +26 (Collision weapon). Without Power Attack. So a fully power attacked and with large size bonus, I'm at +40 on my bull rush.


Technically since one is a race and one is a template they're different and not treated as an update. And iirc they even have different fluf. Also there's nothing in raw about two half templates being illegal so technically you could throw half fey and half dragon on there too lol. So those restrictions are really your dms call. Not that they are unreasonable restrictions though lol just thought I'd point it out.

[Vhaidara]

Oh trust me, this group has enough messed up genetics. We've determined that the whale man is descended from the cross of a half-dragon aboleth and a half whale/half human. I wish we'd known about the anthro whale from SS when we made him.

But on topic, I'm not even going to make it a DM call, I'm calling it on being too cheesy.

As far as crusader levels go, I would rather not. They have better synergy with the build you reference (I'm planning on grabbing Wrathful Healing to cover my sustain).

EDIT: Oh, and I dropped Collision from my weapons for now. My friend got me a pdf of Unapproachable East, meaning Valorous is now on the table. Rather, on the character. I spent some of the money I got back on a Winged Mask (Magic of Faerun) which lets me cast Fly at will as a 5th level caster. Unlimited times per day. So now I dungeoncrash them into the ground.

[Vhaidara]

So, I now have this build finished. I intend to continue in Fighter until I feel my usefulness is waning, at which point I will dip a level in Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian for Rage and Pounce (which will allow me to commit acts of heinous murder upon the Tarrasque.

Thank you all for your aid.