Glorious Battle - The Ysgard Project

[Eldan]

Okay. Here's the deal. I'll make a nicer, more fluff heavy thread for this, but I'll start with this. There's a thread in the third edition forum, where Afroakuma answers questions on Planescape and D&D lore. And the subject of Ysgard came up, and how it is a lovely plane that rarely gets the attention it deserves. So, I want ot rectify that.

For this, I will write as much new Ysgard fluff as I can think of and some new rules material. I've at least thought of several creatures already. But I'd like other people to help me with this. Come up with their own ideas, comment on mine before I write long texts on them. Would anyone be up on this?

First, why is Ysgard interesting? Because it is not just heavy on Norse mythology, it is the plane of Sword and Sorcery personified. Where combat is glorious, every warrior is a poet and the dead rise at night for feasting, while the survivors are rewarded. Ysgard is a plane that tests everyone. That challenges people. It can be harsh, but it rewards those that rise to the challenge.

And then there's the deeper layers. I'll just quote Afro on these:




Muspelheim is a blazing land of hearty extremes, a place to challenge the unprepared and test the mettle of heroes. Though life here is harsh and relentless, those who falter always have the opportunity to get back up and try again. It is a divided land, a place where water and ice dance with blistering flames, with towering foes to fire the imagination and stoke the forges of war. Muspelheim wants to see you fight hard, die hard and burn until you can kick the land itself in the teeth.

Nidavellir is the realm of darkness and caverns. A place of mystery, change and uncertainty, it's riddled with magic and shadow wars between the many tribes that call it home. It is the place of jealous craft; of individual exceptionalism secreted away; of being brave in the dark and waging fierce wars in the eternal cavernous twilight. Nidavellir wants you to carve out a place to stand in its darkest reaches and raise your torch high, telling everyone else to come and take it from you if they dare. Strife is expected and to be exemplary is to secure your place here, but you'd better be able to back up your claims because you'll always be challenged to prove yourself


So. I've re-read the important sections in Planes of Chaos. Here's a summary of what we know about Ysgard:

The plane consists of giant mountains, some the size of islands, others of continents, that float in a void. On the underside, these moutains are molten rock, or on fire, on the upper side are landscapes, forests, mountains, even oceans. The mountains grind and crash together, causing frequent earthquakes. At first sight, a landscape on Ysgard may look like the prime, but everything is more grand in scope. There also is no sun, only the light from the fires below which changes in intensity. Even hte stars are only distant burning earthbergs in the skies.
There are seasons, but mostly, they are determined by the whims of local gods and powers.
The void between them is dangerous, a place of incredibly strong storms that only the valkyries can safely cross. However, Ysgardian longships are equipped to sail from one earthberg to the next on the clouds of steam that rise when the oceans flowing over the rims meet the fires below, though these clouds are enormously difficult to safely navigate.

The inhabitants of Ysgard are by nature stubborn and warlike. They are used to the idea that anyone who's killed comes back to life again at sunset. The problem is, that is only petitioners and other natives, not visitors or mortals who otherwise live here. Still, petitioners are known to be stubborn and set in their ways on any plane, so they are liable to fight anyone they meet, for glory. They consider charity an insult, but also highly value the guest rights.

Magic on Ysgard is difficult. Many spells can not be normally cast. Like on all planes in Planescape, magic is altered in several ways:
Travel spells, especially those that teleport in any way, require special runic keys that are extremely rare, though sometimes granted by gods. Spells that create shelter, like the entire Leomund line of spells, rarely work at all, even with keys.
In fact, several Norse gods are said to guard certain lines of spells: Loki guards illusions, Odin guards spells of the mind, Heimdall guards protection spells and Thor guards weather magic. These gods decide who gets a key to cast them.
All summoning spells are changed. On the first plane, only Einherjar can be summoned, on the second, only giants and on the third only dwarves and deep trolls.
Divination works differently. Spells that find a single person have their range doubled. Spells that try to predict events or find a location, however, don't work at all.
Wild magic is stronger, though it doesn't show up much in third edition anyway.
Mortals can not change the weather at all, and many elemental spells are limited. Lightning spells only work in Vanaheim, ice spells in Jotunheim and fire spells in Muspelheim.
Now, all these limitations have one exception. There is a complicated language of runes that a caster can learn that allow him to work around these limitations by carving special spell keys into chips of stone or bone and use them as a focus. Special somatic components are also required, namely the Kenning, a secret language that only works on Ysgard.

There are few if any cities, mostly there are just scattered tribal villages.

Natives include Bariaur, nomadic creatures like centaurs but with goat parts; various giants, the fensir (norse trolls) and the valkyries.

Yggdrasil is a strange planar pathway, a gigantic multidimensional tree that grows through the astral plane, but with branches that touch not only Ysgard, but also Niflheim in the Grey Waste, Loki's realm in Pandemonium, Arborea and many prime worlds. The planes can be crossed by walking and climbing Yggdrasil, which usually takes a few days.

There are several sub-realms on Ysgard, including the High Grove in Alfheim, where the elves worship Freyr and Freya; the Gates of the Moon, the twin realm of Selune and Bastet from which grows the Infinite Staircase, another planar pathway; the hall of Breidablik, Baldur the Beautiful's realm. There all the other norse gods as well. Some other gods mentioned include: Aasterinian, the dragon god of messengers; Faenya, god of birds; Anhur, Egyptian god of war; Hachiman, god of violence and O-Kuni-Nushi, patron of heroes and animals and patron of Kenku, from the Shinto pantheon; Shou Hsing, guardian of the peaches of Immortality from the Chinese pantheon.

The city of Himinborg is also important, because it is the place most open to the other planes. Bifröst, the rainbow bridge, a special connection to the prime, often sets people from the material plane down here. It is the realm of Heimdall.

Jötunheim is another interesting place, the dual realm of Thyrm, lord of ice, and Surtr, lord of fire. A realm of where glaciers and rivers of lava continually crash. In the middle lies the city of Utgard, ruled by Utgard-Loki, king of giants.

These are all on the first layer. There are deeper layers, Muspelheim and Nidavellir, but on these, there is even less information. In Muspelheim, not only the underside, but the entire earthbergs burn. They are made of harsh volcanic rock and constantly hot enough to burn the unprepared. There are oceans and lakes of molten metal.

Nidavellir is a place of darkness, ruled by the shadow war between two realms, Nidavellir, realm of Muamman Duathal of the dark dwarves and gnomes and Svartalfheim, home of Elistraee's good drow, the realm of mysteries, love and secret passions.


So. Bit of an infodump, but I think it's woefully incomplete and focuses entirely too much on the gods and their realms (each has a paragraph or even a page of description) and not enough on the nature of the underlying plane.
The philosophy is clear. Battle is glorious and struggle exalts those who succeed. The weak deserve little respect, unless they try to become stronger.

There's a few things I'd like to do.

First of all, move away from the gods. It is mentioned several times that Ysgard is a realm of villages, not cities. To this, I'd like to add more emphasis on clans instead of kingdoms and large realms.
As I see it, Ysgard would be patchwork of clan lands ruled by chiefdoms and petty kings who rule a village of raiders, an island or a single mountain stronghold. Similar to what the book says on the gods, I'd say that the land answers to its king. The ruler influences the weather, seasons and even the laws of magic to a degree. He can reward the honourable and punish the wicked. However, the king can only control what he can keep. Anyone can overthrow a king and become king themselves, if they are stronger. So a king needs to always be on their guard and keep their subjects content, or they may be deposed, if their huskarls no longer support them. In case of a weak or dishonourable king, the land itself may rise up, first becoming sick, the harvests poor and the weather terrible, then punishing the king personally with bad luck and roving monsters. Think Grendel. The gods and powers would merely be the most impressive of these local lords, with the greatest realms.

Second, the rune magic. There's something interesting here to be made of this. Secret language, the preparation of runes to cast certain spells, keys to be earned as favours from kings... geomancy, perhaps too, runes adapted to and gained from the land itself.

Third, the land. We have the philosophy, now the land needs to reflect it. Ysgard is a realm of constant adventure. The land will challenge you in any way it can. The weather, the geography, the monsters. All are things you might defeat, but it will never be easy. You will always struggle and emerge either stronger or fail. How do we reflect this better?
Muspelheim is similar, but much, much harsher. The fire itself can burn those too weak to stand against them. There is no shelter, no safety, no welcoming mead halls and guest right to protect you. It is where you prove yourself or die.
Nidavellir is the realm of darkness and secrets. Where ancient artefacts of dwarven, elven and trollish craftsmen lie in hidden caves. where those bold enough to venture into the darkness can unearth forgotten powers of aeons long ago. Where primordial powers stir in the dark to swallow the unwary. Where you may vanish in the shadows and never be found again.
Ysgard may not kill you easily. But the other two layers will. You go there at your own peril, if you think you're hard enough.

Fourth, the Valkyries. They are only briefly mentioned here and there and one is statted up in the Tome of Battle. It is a bit disappointing, really. Oh, a strong warrior, sure, and one of the few monstrous initiators. But it can't do many of the duties it should.
So, I propose to write up an entire hierarchy of valkyries, like other exemplar races have. From the Einherjar, the normal petioners, higher ranking valkyries choose the most exceptional to be promoted to their ranks. There may be quests and tests of mettle and wit involved.
Then, ranks of valkyries. I see a few potential ranks here.
Swordbearers, the pure fighters as depicted in the Tome of Battle, who guard the strongest places of magic, like Mimir's Well and the borders of the plane against invaders such as raiders from the Outlands, roving slaad and demons or high-spirited maenad marauders from Arborea.
Fylgjur, protection spirits that help the weak with challenges to great for them. Incorporeal or in the shape of harmless animals, they are nevertheless quite powerful.
The chooser of the slain. The most well known Valkyrie, who ride across the sky after battles, determining who fought honourably and who didn't, who gets rewarded with feasts for a night and who has to rest in the dark realms of the night. Who cast the aurora across the sky with their wild rides and make new valkyries from those who impress them.
And the norns. I'm changing their mythology, a bit, but I'm thinking of the Norns as the shadowy rulers of this plane. Ancient, wise, diviners and magicians, who see the past and possible futures and steer them according to their own designs. To keep the nature of the plane alive, of course, they do not have a unified power structure or a single ruler, but rather come together in a council if required and otherwise scheme and feud amongst each other.


So. Does this sound like a project people will want to help with? Is there anything I seem to have forgotten, any ideas right away?

[Vedhin]

Yay!

A few nitpicks:
I'm pretty sure Surtur is on Muspelheim.
As far as I know, only the "pure-alignment" planes have exemplars. The "off-alignment" planes don't.
What edition are we using for mechanics/fluff? 3e did away with spell keys and such. (not that I don't think Ysgard should keep them).
What do you think of expanding the sections of Ysgard corresponding to one of the Norse mythological "realms" into layers?

[Eldan]

Yay!

A few nitpicks:
I'm pretty sure Surtur is on Muspelheim.
As far as I know, only the "pure-alignment" planes have exemplars. The "off-alignment" planes don't.
What edition are we using for mechanics/fluff? 3e did away with spell keys and such. (not that I don't think Ysgard should keep them).
What do you think of expanding the sections of Ysgard corresponding to one of the Norse mythological "realms" into layers?

Planes of Chaos mentions that Surtur's realm is in Jotunheim but that he visits Muspelheim often.
There's no canonical exemplars. Doesn't mean we can't make our own.
I'm a third edition person, but I assume most of what we'll be writing will be fluff.
Do we need more layers? Also, I'd like to move a bit away from Norse Mythology as the main source. There's other interesting stuff out there and most planes are quite a bit more diverse and original than that.

[Jurai]

I can do creatures. Send me some guidance.

[Eldan]

Look at Archons, devils and demons for the general power levels?

I'm imagining Fylgjur with two forms. One incorporeal and invisible, the other a shapeshifted small animal form. They would have some basic protective and healing magics and perhaps something similar to bardic music. Power level around the Lantern Archon, maybe. Closest equivalent I can think of.

The basic warrior Valkyrie is already statted up in Tome of Battle, she should do.

For the chooser of the slain: some basic magics to reward brave warriors. Feast of Heroes as an SLA. Basic divination ability to determine someone's deeds. Maybe a resurrection ability to use on non-natives.

Norns would be the most powerful. Even non-uniques would be on a level close to a pit fiend or balor, but with magical power instead of physical might. Specialized in powerful divinations, buffs and curses.

[Jurai]

All right. Perhaps Legend Lore?

[Eldan]

Should work, yes. If you can think of any other type of Valkyrie, feel free to add them.

[Jurai]

All right, working on Fylgja and Daudikostr right now.

[Eldan]

What's a Daudikostr? Google has nothing.

[Jurai]

A horrible translation of Choice and Dead. Dead Chooser, basically. The Born are apparently unique in Norse myth, but let me know if I'm wrong.

[Eldan]

Ah. "Valkyrie" already translates to that, so I don't think it's necessary to make a new translation.

[Jurai]

But Valkyrie, creature name wise, is in ToB. Besides, you did specify Chooser of the Dead as unique amongst Valkyries.

[DeusMortuusEst]

What about other creatures from norse myths? I'm thinking of Fenrir, Jormungandr, Sköll & Hati etc.? These could all be unique monsters, or new creatures specific for this realm.

I kind of like the idea of giant wolves that run across the skies and eats the land itself (Sköll & Hati), or a giant snake that appears every century or so and which requires massive armies to defeat only to have it return again once it has healed.

[Eldan]

True. But nothing stops us from using the English names.

From what I know, the Norns weren't unique beings. There was a variety of them with different jobs. The idea that there were three of them, named Past, Present and Future (or more literally That Which is Owed, Fate, That Which is Becoming) is a later medieval idea. So there's nothing stopping us from making them a class of beings, perhaps with unique leaders. Archnorns.

[Eldan]

What about other creatures from norse myths? I'm thinking of Fenrir, Jormungandr, Sköll & Hati etc.? These could all be unique monsters, or new creatures specific for this realm.

I kind of like the idea of giant wolves that run across the skies and eats the land itself (Sköll & Hati), or a giant snake that appears every century or so and which requires massive armies to defeat only to have it return again once it has healed.

They are occasionally mentioned. Fenrir is mentioned in the context of the island he's chained on, which lies outside the realm of Asgard. Jörmungandr doesn't show up personally, but Muspelheim has a mountain chain called Serpent's Spine, which is called that in reference to it.

I'd rather like the idea of a race of collosal+ serpents. But as I've also mentioned, I'd like to move a bit away from purely Norse mythology and diversify a bit. That mythology is pretty well covered in Planes of Chaos and while we'll obviously have to reference it, there should be more to this plane than just one culture-specific afterlife.

Someone in the other thread mentioned Hydras as very fitting creatures for Ysgard. Not only are they challenging to kill, if you try to kill them and do it wrong, they get stronger, not weaker. That embodies a lot of Ysgard's philosophy.

[Jurai]

How about having three arch-Norns: Debt, Fate, and Fortune?

[Eldest]

Some more threats that you need to fight correctly instead of just overpowering, then? Another thing mentioned in the other thread was the sphinx. Personally, I'd like some focus on Olidammara's side of things, as well. It's not just glorious thews and really, really big swords. I'd say that Ysgard exalts challenge above all, and so the more daring robberies, capers and cons also have their place here.

[Eldan]

How about having three arch-Norns: Debt, Fate, and Fortune?

That was just about my idea. The other idea would be having three sects of norns, Verdandir, Skuldir and Urdir, who focus on different things.

[Eldan]

Some more threats that you need to fight correctly instead of just overpowering, then? Another thing mentioned in the other thread was the sphinx. Personally, I'd like some focus on Olidammara's side of things, as well. It's not just glorious thews and really, really big swords. I'd say that Ysgard exalts challenge above all, and so the more daring robberies, capers and cons also have their place here.

A few such things are mentioned, vaguely. There's poetry contests, in the halls of various gods, since the Norse appreciated such things. There's the legendary craftsmen everywhere, especially on Nidavellir.

Sphinxes, I just noticed, are mentioned in passing in Bastet's realm. She's goddess of cats, so they fit. We can spread them out some more.

[Jurai]

And insult contests, too. Flyting. So that leads to insult swordfighting and insult ale pong.

Moved this statblock.

[Tragak]

Somebody mentioned Hydras in the original thread, and I think those could work very well for a plane built around combat making people stronger.

[123456789blaaa]

The philosophy of the plane really reminds me of shonen manga/anime like Dragonball Z, Bleach, One Piece, Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer etc. Kenichi: The Mightiest Disciple is also a great manga for this (as you can probably guess from the title. A warning though: tons of fanservice). I'm pretty sure there's a huge well of inspiriation waiting to be tapped in there considering the large amount of material like it.

You said you'd like to move a bit away from Norse Mythology as the main source. Perhaps it might be cool to mix in some Japanese influences (modified to fit the Chaotic nature of the plane)? Ōkuninushi (大国主) is a divinity (kami) in Japanese Shinto that already canonically lives on the first layer so it's not completely out of nowhere. The chinese god Shou Hsing also lives there (yes, I know China and Japan have two distict cultures. DnD has never been shy about mixing mythological inspirations though and Chinese/Japanese culture doesn't clash as much when put together as much as something like African and Finnish myth).

For Muspelheim, you could also take inspiration from the cultures of people who live in Polar Regions (like the frozen Hudson Bay area). These people have to live in an environment that's one of the harshest on the planet. Their culture will be based on living in such a place. Now obviously you'll have to change some stuff and mix it with other inspiration but it could still be interesting.

Do you know about Libertads Planar Revision Project (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5581.15;)? He's done Ysgard and Afro approved the project. You may want to check it out.

Something interesting to note is that the 3.0 Manual of Planes makes the Fast Healing and True Ressurection effect apply to all creatures that suffer mortal wounds on the plane. IMO this fits the plane much better than just the petitioners and other natives getting that benefit.



Nidavellir is the realm of darkness and secrets. Where ancient artefacts of dwarven, elven and trollish craftsmen lie in hidden caves. where those bold enough to venture into the darkness can unearth forgotten powers of aeons long ago. Where primordial powers stir in the dark to swallow the unwary. Where you may vanish in the shadows and never be found again.
Ysgard may not kill you easily. But the other two layers will. You go there at your own peril, if you think you're hard enough.

From the description here, Nidavellir seems pretty wholly CN. What about the CG aspect? I think your description could emphasize the wonder, excitement, passion, and beauty of Nidavellir a little more. Lush forests and glittering, rainbow gemstones coexist alongside cave-ins and stale air.

Your sentence "Where primordial powers stir in the dark to swallow the unwary." puts me in the mind of beings like Ghaunadaur (http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/drowgods/Ghaunadaur.htm). Horrible, lurking things that shun the light. Nidavellir is dark but it encourages you to explore it and shine the flame of your torch upon the deep caverns. While there are dangers, I see them as more fae and alien in nature.



<snip>
And the norns. I'm changing their mythology, a bit, but I'm thinking of the Norns as the shadowy rulers of this plane. Ancient, wise, diviners and magicians, who see the past and possible futures and steer them according to their own designs. To keep the nature of the plane alive, of course, they do not have a unified power structure or a single ruler, but rather come together in a council if required and otherwise scheme and feud amongst each other.

That interpretation fits for Nidavellir but not so much for Ysgard and Muspelheim. Hm...maybe each of the 3 Norns corresponds to each of the 3 layers?

Unrelated: can I just say how dang annoying it is for Ysgard to be the name of the plane in general and the first layer? And how Nidavellir is the name of the 3rd layer and the realm of the dwarven god Muamman Duathal? :smallannoyed:



So. Does this sound like a project people will want to help with? Is there anything I seem to have forgotten, any ideas right away?

Yesssss. This is awesome Eldan :smallbiggrin:. I at least, would love to help.

See above for ideas and thoughts of mine.

[Jurai]

I'm AFB, but do Archdukes and Demon Princes have their own traits?

[Eldan]

The philosophy of the plane really reminds me of shonen manga/anime like Dragonball Z, Bleach, One Piece, Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer etc. Kenichi: The Mightiest Disciple is also a great manga for this (as you can probably guess from the title. A warning though: tons of fanservice). I'm pretty sure there's a huge well of inspiriation waiting to be tapped in there considering the large amount of material like it.

Manga is not a bad idea. We can certainly draw some inspiration from that. The tropes fit pretty much perfectly.



You said you'd like to move a bit away from Norse Mythology as the main source. Perhaps it might be cool to mix in some Japanese influences (modified to fit the Chaotic nature of the plane)? Ōkuninushi (大国主) is a divinity (kami) in Japanese Shinto that already canonically lives on the first layer so it's not completely out of nowhere. The chinese god Shou Hsing also lives there (yes, I know China and Japan have two distict cultures. DnD has never been shy about mixing mythological inspirations though and Chinese/Japanese culture doesn't clash as much when put together as much as something like African and Finnish myth).

Sure. And, well. Planescape was never afraid of clashing. It threw gods from everywhere into one place, sorted just by philosophy. If you know any other warlike hero deities from pretty much anywhere, tell me.


For Muspelheim, you could also take inspiration from the cultures of people who live in Polar Regions (like the frozen Hudson Bay area). These people have to live in an environment that's one of the harshest on the planet. Their culture will be based on living in such a place. Now obviously you'll have to change some stuff and mix it with other inspiration but it could still be interesting.

I know pretty much nothing about Arctic-American natives, but I know a thing or two about Siberian nomadic culture that we could bring in here.


Do you know about Libertads Planar Revision Project (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5581.15;)? He's done Ysgard and Afro approved the project. You may want to check it out.

I've read it, yes.


Something interesting to note is that the 3.0 Manual of Planes makes the Fast Healing and True Ressurection effect apply to all creatures that suffer mortal wounds on the plane. IMO this fits the plane much better than just the petitioners and other natives getting that benefit.

Probably, yeah. It's not a bad idea.


From the description here, Nidavellir seems pretty wholly CN. What about the CG aspect? I think your description could emphasize the wonder, excitement, passion, and beauty of Nidavellir a little more. Lush forests and glittering, rainbow gemstones coexist alongside cave-ins and stale air.

Your sentence "Where primordial powers stir in the dark to swallow the unwary." puts me in the mind of beings like Ghaunadaur (http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/drowgods/Ghaunadaur.htm). Horrible, lurking things that shun the light. Nidavellir is dark but it encourages you to explore it and shine the flame of your torch upon the deep caverns. While there are dangers, I see them as more fae and alien in nature.

Oh, certainly. All the wonders of the deep Earth are found in Nidavellir. Fungal forest. Shining subterranean lakes. Wondrous dwarven halls. Caves of crystal and light. But also the mystery. Endless, twisting passages. Caverns filled with icy mists and treacherous blue ice. Slippery chimneys that suddenly open under the feet of the unwary.



That interpretation fits for Nidavellir but not so much for Ysgard and Muspelheim. Hm...maybe each of the 3 Norns corresponds to each of the 3 layers?

I suppose so. If we go with Past, present, future, Nidavellir is probably past. I can't quite sort the other two.


Unrelated: can I just say how dang annoying it is for Ysgard to be the name of the plane in general and the first layer? And how Nidavellir is the name of the 3rd layer and the realm of the dwarven god Muamman Duathal? :smallannoyed:

Tell me about it. I motion the first layer be named Midgard and the real of the Aesir Asgard. Nidavellir fits layer three, Muamman can name his realm something else. Same for Muspelheim, the fire giants can get stuffed.


Yesssss. This is awesome Eldan :smallbiggrin:. I at least, would love to help.

See above for ideas and thoughts of mine.[/QUOTE]

[Vedhin]

Planes of Chaos mentions that Surtur's realm is in Jotunheim but that he visits Muspelheim often.
There's no canonical exemplars. Doesn't mean we can't make our own.
I'm a third edition person, but I assume most of what we'll be writing will be fluff.
Do we need more layers? Also, I'd like to move a bit away from Norse Mythology as the main source. There's other interesting stuff out there and most planes are quite a bit more diverse and original than that.

Fair enough. Though I'd like to move towards Norse mythology myself, but that's personal preference.



From the description here, Nidavellir seems pretty wholly CN. What about the CG aspect? I think your description could emphasize the wonder, excitement, passion, and beauty of Nidavellir a little more. Lush forests and glittering, rainbow gemstones coexist alongside cave-ins and stale air.

Nidavellir has two CG aspects, as I understand it. The first is, as afro mentioned, being the ultimate game of "king of the hill". Nidavellir lets you carve out your own realm, but you have to prove yourself strong enough to keep it.

The second bit is a bit more complicated. First off, let's postulate the Chaos encourages change (solid assumption). Chaos with some Good, is then about change for the better. Crafting fine items changes the raw materials for the better. This is supported by both dwarves and svifneblin (traditionally crafty races) living there, as well as artsy drow. Also, there's a planar touchstone that is a magic forge.
So Nidavellir is also about crafting, artistry, and such.


Nidavellir extends Ysgards "become better" philosophy outwards, into creating items and realms that are better. Nidavellir wants you to make things and kingdoms that endure.



Your sentence "Where primordial powers stir in the dark to swallow the unwary." puts me in the mind of beings like Ghaunadaur (http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/drowgods/Ghaunadaur.htm). Horrible, lurking things that shun the light. Nidavellir is dark but it encourages you to explore it and shine the flame of your torch upon the deep caverns. While there are dangers, I see them as more fae and alien in nature.


You. Ghaunadaur. Why. :smallsigh:
Nidavellir is not that alien. It does not condone wanton destruction. Lurking things are strongly frowned upon.




I suppose so. If we go with Past, present, future, Nidavellir is probably past. I can't quite sort the other two.

I'd contend that Nidavellir is future, for reasons mentioned above.
Midgard challenges you actively, so it would be present.
Muspelheim challenges you with things that are static and were already there, so it should be past.

[DeusMortuusEst]

I suppose so. If we go with Past, present, future, Nidavellir is probably past. I can't quite sort the other two.

I'd say that this might depend on how you fluff some other stuff of the plane. In the original myths (I know that you don't want to use them too much, but I love the old norse stuff so please bear with me :smalltongue:) Midgard was created by the gods from a giant that was born in the darkness/void between Muspelhem and Nifelhem and in the end of times Surtr, who reigns in Muspelhem will end the world with fire, but when the fire goes out only darkness remains as the stars and the sun and moon are gone.

So, Midgard/Ysgard probably fits for present and Muspelhem and Nifelhem could both be placed as past and future. Personally I like cold to be the past and fire to be the future, entropy and all that jazz :smallsmile:

[123456789blaaa]

Unless I say otherwise, assume that if I don't respond to what is said in response to my posts, I agree with it.



<snip>
I know pretty much nothing about Arctic-American natives, but I know a thing or two about Siberian nomadic culture that we could bring in here.

Cool. The main thing is how a culture develops in incredibly harsh conditions so that works.



<snip>
I suppose so. If we go with Past, present, future, Nidavellir is probably past. I can't quite sort the other two.

If I had to try my hand at justifying it:

Present would be Muspelheim. In Muspelheim, you focus on surviving the now. Getting food, avoiding flames and lava. You don't think about building a grand empire. You don't have the time and you can't spare the concentration. Ditto for remembering the past. There's no time to reminice about old granpa when HOLY CRAP LAVA. Muspelheim is constantly trying to push your face in the lava toilet. Prove that you won't let it succeed. Also, it's the middle layer of Ysgard.

Future is Midgard. In this layer, you're constantly trying to become more. Better, faster, stronger. From weak to strong, in Midgard you dream of climbing to the top. You get the idea.



Tell me about it. I motion the first layer be named Midgard and the real of the Aesir Asgard. Nidavellir fits layer three, Muamman can name his realm something else. Same for Muspelheim, the fire giants can get stuffed.


If you wish to move even farther away from the Norse influence, perhaps the gods could keep the names of their realms and the layers could be renamed?



<snip>
You. Ghaunadaur. Why. :smallsigh:
Nidavellir is not that alien. It does not condone wanton destruction. Lurking things are strongly frowned upon.

Um, yes. I agree with you. What I was trying to say is that IMO Eldans sentence that I quoted didn't fit because it reminded me of Ghaunadaur. Apologies if I was unclear.

Alien may have been a misleading word. Perhaps "otherworldy" would be more fitting? Caves of crystal and light aren't the type of thing you see every day.



I'd contend that Nidavellir is future, for reasons mentioned above.
Midgard challenges you actively, so it would be present.
Muspelheim challenges you with things that are static and were already there, so it should be past.

Eldan's description:


Nidavellir is the realm of darkness and secrets. Where ancient artefacts of dwarven, elven and trollish craftsmen lie in hidden caves. where those bold enough to venture into the darkness can unearth forgotten powers of aeons long ago.

Seems to mesh better with Past IMO. You're trying to explore and establish your own realm yes. What you're exploring has been there for eons though. The other two layers are places of physical change. Nidavellir shifts but it doesn't morph (not sure if I'm conveying my meaning with the previous sentences quite right...)

And what you're trying to do is make your realm last throughout the ages. You carved out the realm through your own hard work and it will last gorramit! Midgard is more focused on the individual herself rather than what she creates. The dark dwarves and gnomes in Nidavellir are secretive and insular for this reason. In Ysgard a challenger is more likely to be met with a bellowing, good-natured laugh. Someone dethroning them is good because it means someone more excellent is in their place.

[BWR]

here's some stuff I copied off the Pits back when I hung out there. Can't recall who wrote it, but it was not I. All glory to those who did so




The Ogdoad

(For On Hallowed Ground)

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Most berks have heard of the Heliopolitan Ennead, the nine Egyptian powers of order; Ra, Shu, Tefnut, Geb, Nut, Osiris, Isis, Set and Nephythys. But a less well-known and equally important group of Egyptian powers, embodying chaos, are the Hermopolitan Ogdoad. Devout followers of the duality principle, as well as the rule of threes, their group is made up of two to the third power powers; eight. Popular with planewalkers for the mulitversal concepts they represent, the Ogdoad in some respects represent a group who have made a success of the 'loser' role in a pantheon taken by the Titans, Yam, the various lost Celtic powers, and many others. The Ogdoad have no leader, but consist of four co-equal couples. There are no recorded instances of the Ogdoad taking proxies, and none of them habitually use symbols. All of them appear either as frogs, serpents or baboons, without discriminating. Hermopolis, in Muspelheim, also called Khemenu, stands on an earthberg called the Island of Fire, said to have been the birthplace of a star.

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Amon and Amaunet
Intermediate Powers, "Unseen Forces"
AoC: The paranormal; latent magic; portals and conduits; astral travellers.
AL: CN(G)
WAL: Any
Home P/L/R: Ysgard/Muspelheim/Hermopolis (Whispers in the Shadow)

Amon and Amaunet are the god and goddess of the invisible and the unknowable. Magicians, psionicists and those who travel in the Astral Plane call on their guidance against psychic winds and other terrors. Their realm, forming part of the city of Hermopolis, lies within one of the flaming earthbergs of Muspelheim. It is the only known location not on the first layer of a plane where the Astral touches an outer plane.

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Heh and Hehet
Intermediate Powers, "Infinity"
AoC: The concept of infinity
AL: CN(G)
WAL: Planewalkers and mathematicians
Home P/L/R: Ysgard/Muspelheim/Hermopolis (The Steeple of Vision)
Heh and Hehet are the god and goddess who granted mankind (it is said) comprehension of the infinite. As such, they are much respected by planewalkers, who have to deal with such a distracting idea all the time. Their realm, the Steeple of Vision, is an enormous stone tower with a pointed top, the highest in the city, from where one can see out into the plane, thus bringing the concept of infinity home with a vengeance to those who visit it.

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Kek and Keket
Intermediate Powers, "Darkness"
AoC: Darkness
AL: CN(G)
WAL: Any
Home P/L/R: Ysgard/Muspelheim/Hermopolis (the Dark Side), Ysgard/Nidavellir/Pax E Tenebris
Kek and Keket are the god and goddess of darkness, a portfolio more commonly linked with evil powers. They are said to watch over those who travel in darkness and keep them safe, although they do not like light. Their realm in Hermopolis consists of the whole underside of the earthberg, which is dark and barren. They also maintain a retreat in Nidavellir, Pax E Tenebris, which is almost unreachable.

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Nun and Naunet
Intermediate Powers, "The Waters"
AoC: Waters, especially the ocean depths.
AL: CG
WAL: Any, but popular with merfolk and other subaquatic races
Home P/L/R: Ysgard/Muspelheim/Hermopolis (Coolness), Arborea/Ossa/The Primeval Abyssal
Nun and Naunet are a husband and wife, brother and sister team representing the ancient waters. They are honoured by all who wish to enter the depths of the sea, and by those who live there. Their realm in Hermopolis is like an enormous bath-house, and is the coolest place in the layer, and a haven for visitors. In Ossa, they tend to a deep trench, said to be the deepest on the layer, which is dark and cold, and harbours unknown things.


OD
Aliases: Óðr, Odur, Svipdag
AoC: Necromancers, oaths, odes, riddles
Domains: Death, Knowledge, Rune
AL: N
Symbol: Rune of death
Home P/L/R: Ysgard/Ysgard/Jotunheim
Favored Weapon: Shortspear
Allies: Aurvandil, Gróa (dead)

Óðr was Freyja's first husband. He was very protective of his wife, and wouldn't allow her to leave with Freyr as a hostage to the Aesir. This threatened the entire peace accord, so Óðr's stepmother Sif stepped in, laying a geas on him to win the hand of the giantess Mengloth in marriage. Óðr summoned the spirit of his mother Gróa from the Astral Plane to help him complete his quest. A powerful völva even in death, Gróa cast nine spells for him, allowing him to make his way to the castle of the jotun. There he beat the watchman in a game of riddles, learning from the guard that, due to a curse from a goddess called Sif, only one can enter Mengloth's castle: one called Svipdag. Revealing that this is his own truename, Óðr is allowed in. He and Mengloth are wed.

With her husband gone, Freyja consorted once again with her twin Freyr, and left Vanaheim with him. Freyja and Od have three daughters, Gersimi, Noss, and Hnoss.

ULL
Lesser God, "The Hunter."
Aliases: Uller
AoC: Hunting, Archery, Winter
Domains: Chaos, Animal, Weather, Travel
AL: CN
Symbol: Longbow
Home: Ysgard/Ysgard/Vanaheim/Ydalir
Favored Weapon: Longbow
Allies: Skadi, Artemis, Odin, Thor, Sif, Aurvandil

Ull, a god of winter, archery, and skiing, is a son of Aurvandil and Sif. He was raised by Thor. Though he long resented his stepfather for usurping Aurvandil's place and even fought on the side of the Vanir during the war with the Aesir, the two have since reconciled.

After the war, Ull is said to have gone mad for a time, finally returning to sanity with the aid of the Olympian goddess Artemis.

Ull is now highly regarded by Odin, who has been known to let him temporarily rule Asgard in his place while the gallows god is elsewhere. Ull's wife is the frost giant Skadi. Though, after she left her first husband Njord, Skadi had pledged to put all future suitors to the death, she and Ull fell in love. Ull still spends most of his time in the mountains of Vanaheim with Skadi, unless Odin has need of him.

3e conversion of the bariaur gods created by Brannon Hollingsworth. They originally appeared on his webpage, and they're in Gary Ray's Bariaur Book of Belief. Which is, apparantly, offline, but I can send a copy to anyone who wants one.

Anyway, Brannon wrote back in an approving way, so I guess I'll post these here, too.

Nomolos
"Old Wisdom"

Nomolos is the Caller of Souls, the god of death, rebirth, and wisdom. He is true neutral. He created his mate Nor'bah, and himself, from words he spoke at the dawn of creation, and is said by the bariaur to have created such races as the valorums, shedu, unicorns, and armanites as well as their own. Nomolos manifests as an old, grizzled bariaur with immense curved, scarred horns, and a long gray beard. His eyes are filled with knowledge, life, and knowledge. His domains are Destruction, Renewal, Fate, Planning, and Knowledge. He carries no weapons, but his clerics gain a bonus weapon focus feat for their own charge attack. His realm, called the Echoing Vale, is in Ysgard. His symbol is an ancient bariaur horn. His clerics often use actual horns inherited from their predecessors; some carry entire skulls in order to frighten their opponents.

"As life turns into death and death into life, so experience turns into knowledge and knowledge into wisdom. As Nomolos created himself at the beginning of time, so wisdom creates new wisdom, in an endless ring. Death is not the end; go, then, bravely into death, and die a warrior."

Nomolos' clerics are warriors and councilors. They perform rites of death and birth, and pray before battles. Prayers to Nomolos are rhythmic chants in an archaic version of the Celestial tongue. The same prayers have been handed down between Nomolos' clerics since the creation of the bariaur species.

Nor'bah
"Life-Mother"

Nor'bah is the Life-Mother, sometimes known as Nor'bah of the Forests. She is the goddess of life and fertility, the sister and daughter of Nomolos. She welcomed the young bariaur into her realm in the Beastlands when they wandered, lost in the planes, in the early years of their race, and taught them how to survive and forage, and gave them the courtship and marriage rites they still observe today. She watches over bariaurs who live in the forest, love the woodlands, or make their livelihood there. She is often worshipped by bariaur rangers. Humans and elves associate her with Ehlonna. She is depicted as a dark or golden-haired bariaur woman, sometimes with a single horn like that of a unicorn. Her domains are Animal, Good, Plant, Moon, and Sun. She is neutral good. Her favored weapons are the scimitar and the mighty composite longbow. Her symbol is a unicorn horn.

"The woodlands are a beautiful place, full of life. The secrets of the forests should be learned and taught so that bariaurs and other races can live in harmony with nature. The wilderness must be protected from those who would harm it. The plants and the animals of the wildlands are things that nature gives as gifts, not things to be stolen. So, too, are young bariaur, and the gift of love."

Nor'bah's clerics are teachers and protectors of the wild. They are friendly with rangers, druids, and shamans. They are gentle with their first warning to those who would harm the forest and ruthless in stopping those who would persist. They often travel. They perform bariaur marriage ceremonies and act as midwives. Prayers to Nor'bah are soft, low, and crooning, performed in the open or under the trees.

Tirag Thunderhooves
"Ring-Winner"

Tirag is the god of brotherhood, fellowship, and fair play. He is known as Fair-Bringer, Winner-of-Rings, and Hoof-Brother. He is the son of Nor'bah, though the identity of his father is disputed. His alignment is neutral good. He is the patron of family and fellowship between bariaur flocks. He is also the special patron of Outlands bariaurs. He manifests as a bariaur with long white hair and wool and shining eyes. His domains are Community, Strength, Good, Protection, and Family. His favored weapon is the greatclub. His realm in the Outlands is called the Ring of Champions, though he is a wandering god. His symbol is a pair of clasped hands; this is often turned into a complex tattoo on the cleric's wrists depicting many hands clasped around one another in a circular pattern.

"Life is a game; it is too short for grudges and sore feelings. Play it well and honorably, but most of all play it with all of your heart and soul. Drink, fight, run, and afterwards celebrate with your opponents, for they are your brothers in the game of life."

Clerics of Tirag are judges of competitions as well as other disputes, which are all usually resolved with the same trials of combat, racing, drinking, or eating. Tirag's clerics are usually good cooks. Prayers to Tirag are often in the form of a challenge or wager.

Va'sha Battlefleece
"Battle-Bringer"

Va'sha is the Horned Goddess, the bariaur patron of war, justice, honor, and independence. She is a wild goddess; she has her father Nomolos' grimness but not his even-handedness; she has her mother Nor'bah's vengefulness but not her gentleness. Her appearance is changeable as the wind, but she always manifests as an athletic bariaur doe with ungroomed, unruly gray wool, flashing eyes, and wicked horns. Her body is covered with tattoos, and her horns are carved and gilded. She has a realm in Ysgard called Battlegrim. Her alignment is chaotic neutral. Her domains are Chaos, Endurance, Travel, Retribution, and War. Her favored weapon is the g'wrn-k'ton. Her clerics from the heretical k'pak sect use the sog'ma-k'ton instead. Her holy symbol is either weapon, though the g'wrn-k'ton is much more common.

"There are three truths: war, honor, and independence. Life is conflict, honor is life, and to be beholden to another is to be dead inside.There is no honor without war and independence. There is no independence without honor and war. War without honor and independence is mere slaughter and slavery, not honest war, and not worthy of a bariaur. Honor and independence must be defended, to the death if need be, from foes such as giants and domineering bucks. Does are warriors the equal of any buck."

Clerics of Va'sha lead other bariaurs into battle, stirring them with impassioned speeches as well as leading by example. They are at the front of every fray. They teach young bariaurs how to fight, but when real battle starts they seldom give advice, trusting in the instincts of their fellow warriors. Prayers to Va'sha are shouted, or screamed, like battle cries. Most often they are battle cries.

Exotic bariaur weapons:

The g'wrn-k'ton, meaning "war-maker," is a large exotic weapon. It is a double weapon, between six and eight feet long, with a mace head on either end. It is deliberately unbalanced, so one side does 1d8 damage and the other does 1d10 damage. On a critical, it does triple damage. It weighs thirty pounds, and does bludgeoning damage only.

The sog'ma-k'ton is a similar weapon with axe blades on both ends. It is essentially the same as a g'wrn-k'ton, but it does slashing damage only. It is considered blasphemous by many bariaur, who consider it a perversion of the sacred g'wrn-k'ton. Its name means "doe weapon," so male bariaur will never use it.




You call us insane. Well, of course you do, there in your finery, in your flippant garb, armed only with your 'keen wit' and that bejeweled garbage you call a blade. But you're the insane one, for travelling with only that at your side- life. is. conflict. And you're unprepared for conflict- and thusly forfeit your existance. Draw steel!"
-Gromnuhr the Bloody, Rager of Ysgard

"This...'sect' calling itself the 'Brotherhood of Glory' has recently begun proselytizing and perpetrating bloody street brawls in the Lower Ward. Dispatch a team to clear the rabble and send them back to wherever they crawled out from."
-Johan Voehdell, Factorum of the Harmonium

The Sodkillers are wrong- violence isn't the answer to all of life's problems. This, in the eyes of the Brotherhood of Glory, is faulty thinking- violence isn't a means to an end, it's the means, the end, the beginning, and the end. Strength and conflict are all that matter to the Ragers, and any body that says differently is going to discover quite a bit about the Rager's strength.
A mid-sized Sect with origins in Ysgard, (as you savvy planars know) the Ragers are an interesting example of the philosophy vs. lifestyle difference between factions and sects. The Ragers don't use violence to get ahead- they use violence to prove their capability for it, then use more violence to make sure everyone understood them the first time. Despite their large rate of 'conversion' (There's always another 'tough guy'), the Ragers pair this with an immense number of casualties inherent to a life of combat.

Now, obligatroy introductions aside, *ahem* (Straps on Rin mask)
==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==

Hello, "ladies." Don't stand up on my regard. What a lovely little debate society you have here. And such talk! Words beyond words, with inflections, meanings, and, I shudder to say, depth. Oh, don't look like that- a Brotherhood member isn't a fool, and you're the fools to underestimate me.
But of course, you bodies are missing the point of the matter. You debate and argue, construe and interpret- all the while, using tongues for weapons and wasting your time and the time of all the bashers who're foolish enough to stand here and listen to your prattle.
Battle. THAT is life, berks, that's the meaning, the goal, and the reason. From sun-up till sun-down you're fighting, struggling, striving to get ahead, it's just that you're not honest enough to admit that you're doing it. That's where we Ragers come in. We're not like those girlish brutes in the Sodkillers, who just want to use their might to bully others into bending to their wills- I'll cow you with my strength just to remind you that I can, and that's that. No ulterior motives, just my strength, my steel, and yours- or possibly, my steel and your viscera.
The Factions have it all wrong, and the War proved it. We're not dead, or bound by laws, or by chaos, or by entropy. All existance boils down to *my power* against *yours*, and if you keep dwelling on the nature of 'truth', I can assure you that my power will be the greater. Now's the time for action, for strength, and for the Ragers. If you 'gentlemen' have nothing else to waste my precious time with, I have heads to be cracking.
_________________
"How're your guts, then? Come on, get up! That couldn't have been the end of it! After all, I haven't even shown you what I can do with my *other* blades!"
-Rhynnburisskimim Allukuresskhan, Rager

That's an interesting thought I hadn't considered. Perhaps a split in the section leads to a considerable number of rowdy, red-garbed chess players, or athletes doing cross-Sigil runs. The 'old' Ragers would most assuredly take offense at this 'perversion' of their beliefs, of course- probably, given their natures, violent offense.
==================================
Rhynnburriskimim on: Rager Appearance
Our color is red. As you can readily see, I wear it in abundance, to show my devotion to the truest laws. Red is the color of conflict, yes, and also of blood- but this base symbolism is not the only reason we wear red. Red attracts attention, draws notice- and often, from beasts (Simple and pure practitioners of the law of might), violence. A challenge, in short, to nature- we are not only stronger than our peers, stronger than all the beings on the planes, but also stronger than the world itself. We live each day fighting with our bodies, and in doing so find the truth behind the irrationality of the 'mind'.
Of course our favor for red has often brought us into comparison with the Mercykillers - and more recently and most infuriatingly, the Sodkillers. Unsurprisingly, it was simple work to...'convince' people of the differences between us and the Mercykillers, but it often takes drastic statements to convince people of the differences between a Brother of Glory and a Sodkiller. To continue on the issue of appearance...look for the tattoos. Those Sodkiller berks, y'see, don't wear them - and we do, a living record for our victories.
Of course, don't assume a body's a Rager just because he's got some ink on his skin and a red cape. Look for the weapons, too. Always be prepared for a fight- that's our main rule, so most of us carry at least two weapons, usually more. A group of our members, called the 'Gatherers', take this passion for steel to the next level. They hunt the planes for exotic and unique weapons to buy or take, and many have personal arsenals on their body that could arm an entire band of warriors.
==================================
The Berserk Seraph on: Playing a Rager
(Warning: Crunchy)

I'll eventually try and get around to some Rager-specific Feats.

Sect Philosophy Fighting and winning is all that matters. Find your place on the pecking order and then train enough to get higher up. Challenge anyone who you think is as strong or stronger than you- after all, you'll never get more mighty if you stay complacent. Do not hesitate in your actions, do not restrict your thoughts. Act loud, with pride and assuredness.

Principal plane of influence The Brotherhood of Glory (Ragers) spawned on Ysgard but also have pull in Limbo and Arborea. Unsurprisingly they are common participants in blood war mercenarial work.

Allies and Enemies The Ragers are seen as right jolly folk by the Doomguard (As they sow chaos and thusly decay), Xaositects (For their similar chaotic outlooks), and Fated (Survival of the fittest is what the Ragers are all about). They're universally loathed or ridiculed by the lawful factions, and have a wicked rivalry with the Sodkillers (This may escalate into open warfare if neither side cedes its presence in Sigil, though the Sodkillers have the advantage of cohesive leadership and numbers)

Eligibility The entrance requirement to become a Rager is deceptively easy- one must find, challenge, and defeat an established Rager. This is as simple and as difficult as you could imagine- finding a Brother of Glory willing to fight is a cakewalk. Beating him is hard. The average Rager has 3-9 Fighter or Barbarian levels, as lower level Ragers are weeded out by attrition, while not many Ragers live to see the highest of levels. A Rager must be Chaotic, as their doctrine is incompatible with anything resembling moderation.

Benefits: Apprentice Ragers, after completing their trial of combat, are brought under the wing of a senior Brother who instructs them in the Rager's 'laws' (Or, rather, contempt thereof). The instruction is paired with combat training and mental focusing, and is uninterrupted (at least, by other Ragers, who cannot challenge the master or student during this time).
An Apprentice Rager trains for a year, after which he emerges with proficiency in all martial weapons, 3 Exotic weapons, and the ability to enter a Berserk state.
Berserk State (Ex): Once per day, if fighting alone against a foe with a CR equal to the Rager's level (or a number of weaker foes whose combined CR reaches this number), the Rager may enter a berserk state. In this state, he gains a single extra attack at his highest attack bonus, a +4 bonus to Will saves, but suffers a -3 penalty to AC. In addition, the Rager remains active (capable of actions) while at negative HP, and does not die until reduced to negative HP equal to 10 + his character level (A 5th level Rager will not die until -15 HP, for example).
This rage state lasts 3 + the Rager's Con modifier rounds, and, when it ends, the Rager collapses (is treated as helpless from exhaustion for 1d4 rounds) and is winded for 1 hour thereafter. It is a faux pas but not against 'the rules' for a Rager to challenge another Brother while he is in this state.

Restrictions A Rager must wear at least one red article of clothing and have at least two visible tattoos (facial tattoos are most common), which makes identifying a Rager relatively simple.
In addition, if delivered an honorable challenge to combat by a foe with a CR less than 5 points higher than the Rager's level, the Rager cannot decline, nor can he flee from an honorable duel before its conclusion.

War? You mistake us. Warfare is not our goal or our trade, nor do we condone it. Wars go not to the most skilled warrior, but to the one with the best resources. We do not participate in wars for our views- nor do we participate in battles, in the truest sense. What we fight are duels, berk, battles of valor and mettle as opposed to numbers and strategy.
This is worth noting- we Brothers do not use magical weapons, unless we are embattled against an opponent who cannot be harmed without them. That said, some Ragers prefer to track down such foes and fight them without suitable weapons, overcoming their handicap with skill. We do not use poisoned weapons- though some, myself included, use poison in obvious, natural weapons. Most of us do not use magic, and when we do, *never* as an offensive tool. We employ it, as with enchanted weaponry, to even the odds.

That's an important thing to consider- on a grand scale, the Ragers *don't* work. Especially on the planes, there's always a bigger fish, and pure might does not win wars. But the tactics espoused by noted tacticians are often reliant on deceit or chicanery, and most ragers frown on this.
This isn't a blanket generalization- there are smart (some, amazingly intelligent) Ragers. They're the razors on the tapestry of blades, the rapiers in a bevy of axes. Intellect, too, is a method of superiority, as these Brothers are sure to share with you.



Ysgard
Abundance: Common
The battle dragons of Ysgard dominate dragons on this plane, being loud and forceful in demeanor, but they are not alone. Copper dragons lair in the canyons and mountains of the plane, often battling with evil Gloom dragons or Howling dragons that have crept into the plane via Yggdrasil. Many of these are associated with Nidhogg, the dragon who gnaws at the base of Yggdrasil.

Dragonkind is actually quite abundant on Ysgard, and many form some of the more noteworthy menaces. Linnorms are the most formidable, but mountain landwyrms, rage drakes, storm drakes, and draconic giants all harass and attack anyone they can get away with.

Dragons are generally welcome on Ysgard, and take sides in the battles of the plane on a regular basis, often leading major actions with their physical prowess. They also have a tendency to serve as mounts for powerful beings, including emissaries for the norse deities and the occasional valkyrie.




When his attempt to corrupt the giants of Ysgard to Graz'zt's employ was thwarted by Duke Rowan Darkwood, Rule-of-Three followed the Agent of Heimdal to Sigil, where he became peripherally involved in Darkwood's schemes to make the Cage into his personal fiefdom.
(Rip van Wormer)



I have traveled the planes searching for this one portal to the Outside, chasing legends and children’s tales. Listening to whispers long forgotten. Reading tomes of darkest knowledge that would break your mind if you weren’t careful. Probably did break me a little... Who knows, eh, berk? Don’t deal with this stuff if you don’t absolutely have to, that’s what I have to say to you. Sometimes I wish I hadn't...

And I finaly found it in one of the abandoned caves in Ysgard. Deep beneath the surface, so deep that I had the feeling that I was not on Alfheim no more. Maybe I wasn't... Anyway, I was studying those legends cut into the walls. Most of them was writen in elvish, but some parts were in some unknown language. Writing was elvish, but it wasn't any of the elven languages.
(Shadowskulker)


Vahallan Thistle
Appearing as a particularly vibrant thistle, with bright yellow coloration, and appear throughout the plane of Ysgard. The spines on these thistles are razor sharp all around, and surpass razorvine in sheer damage capacity. Even the juices within are even more vicious than poison ivy in their effects. What makes this more than just an unpleasant weed is the fact that if they are freshly boiled with water and every individual spine is removed, the tea created can actually bring out great strength and heightened awareness, staving off the effects of fatigue for a few hours.

[ksbsnowowl]

I don't have anything to add at the moment, but I'm very interested. I've been running a homebrew Norse-themed game for almost four years now, so I can help on the Norse mythology front. (I agree with Vedhin, sticking with the Norse stuff would be my preference.)

Off the top of my head:

There should be Brachyurus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/brachyurus.htm) running wild on the first layer.

Azers near the boarders between Muspelheim and Nidavellir?
Sea Drakes (Fiend Folio) living in the inland seas of the first layer?

I'd put Frostburn's Midgard Dwarves in Nidavellir somewhere.

Telthor (Unapproachable East) as the Fylgia?

[Jurai]

{table=head]Dauðikostr|
Size/Type|Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Good, Valkyrie)
Hit Dice|12d8+84 (138 hp)
Initiative|+5
Speed|40 ft., Fly 90 ft. (Good)
Armor Class|27 (+3 Dexterity, +14 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 24
Base Attack/Grapple|+12/+17
Attack|Slam +17 (1d4+5, 20/x2)
Full Attack|Slam +17 (1d4+5, 20/x2)
Space/Reach|5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks|Martial Maneuvers, Spells, Spell-like Abilities
Special Qualities|Valkyrie Traits, Dauðikostr's Purity, Dauðikostr's Call, Dauðikostr's Bonds, Dauðikostr's Respite
Saves|Fort +17, Ref +14, Will +14
Abilities|Str 21, Dex 17, Con 23, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 18
Skills|Bluff +19, Concentration +21, Diplomacy +19, Handle Animal +18, Intimidate +19, Knowledge (Religion) +18, Listen +18, Martial Lore +18, Ride +18, Sense Motive +18, Spot +18
Feats|Great Fortitude (B), Improved Toughness, Power Attack, Toughness
Environment|Ysgard
Organization|Solitary, team (3), or platoon (27 fylgjur, 9 valkyries (ToB), 3 Dauðikostr, 1 Norn)
Challenge Rating|14
Treasure|No coins; double goods; double items
Alignment|Always Chaotic Good
Advancement|By character class; 13-18 HD (Medium); 19-36 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment|+9[/table]

These Valkyries choose the dead that go to Valhalla. They typically wield +4 Keen weapons, preferring two handed weapons like greataxes or greatswords.

Martial Maneuvers: A Dauðikostr initiates maneuvers as a Crusader of level equal to her Hit Dice.

Spells: A Dauðikostr casts divine spells as a Paladin of Freedom of class and caster level equal to her Hit Dice.

Dauðikostr's Bonds (Su): A creature slain by a Dauðikostr can only be raised by a caster of greater level than the Dauðikostr that slew it.

Dauðikostr's Purity (Su): A Dauðikostr has Spell Resistance equal to 25+HD versus spells of the Necromancy school and spells with the Death tag. In addition, a Dauðikostr is surrounded at all times by a Magic Circle against Evil, but it only affects Undead and Deathless creatures, rather than Evil creatures.

Dauðikostr's Call (Su): Creatures can only become stable by Fortitude save within ten feet of a Dauðikostr.

Dauðikostr's Respite (Su): A Dauðikostr's presence interferes with spells that animate, summon, control, or empower undead and channel negative and positive energy. Spells of the Necromancy school and Conjuration (Healing) school have a 30% chance of spell failure, cumulative with any other spell failure chances.

Spell-like abilities: At will- Vigor, Blessing, Bane, Aid; 3/day- Plane Shift (to the Material Plane and Ysgard, self+50 pounds of gear only); 1/d: Heroes' Feast

{table=head]Fylgja (plural: Fylgjur)|
Size/Type|Small Outsider (Chaotic, Good, Incorporeal, Valkyrie)
Hit Dice|4d8+4 (22 hp)
Initiative|+5
Speed|30 ft., Fly 50 ft. (Good)
Armor Class|20 (+1 Dexterity, +9 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple|+4/+6
Attack|Slam +5 (1d3+2 bludgeoning, 20/x2 critical)
Full Attack|Slam (1d3+2 bludgeoning, 20/x2 critical)
Space/Reach|5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks|Spell-like abilities, Fylgja's Judgment
Special Qualities|Valkyrie Traits, Fylgja's Certainty, Manifestation
Saves|Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +5
Abilities|Str 15, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 15
Skills|Concentration +10, Diplomacy +3, Hide +9*, Jump +15, Listen +10, Move Silently +9, Sense Motive +10, Spot +10, Martial Lore +2
Feats|Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Track
Environment|Ysgard
Organization|Solitary, team (3), squad (5-9), or platoon (27 fylgja, 9 valkyries (ToB), 3 Dauðikostr, 1 Norn)
Challenge Rating|5
Treasure|No coins; double goods; standard items
Alignment|Always Chaotic Good
Advancement|By character class
Level Adjustment|+3[/table]

Fylgja are valkyries that determine the fate of warriors, blessing them or cursing them as need be. They prefer one handed weapons, typically +1 longswords.

Fylgja's Judgment (Su): A fylgja can judge a foe. The target must be visible to the valkyrie and within 60 feet. The target takes either a +2 bonus or a -2 morale penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls for 1 hour thereafter, depending on what. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 fylgja's Hit Dice + Charisma modifier) negates the effect. A Fylgja may use this ability three times per day, and she may not use this ability on herself.

Fylgja's Certainty (Su): A fylgja gains +1 caster Level to Divination spells cast to augur the fate of a person or place, +1 manifester level to Clairsentience powers manifested to augur the fate of a person or place, and reduces any morale penalties she may have to -1.

Manifestation (Su): Fylgja are incorporeal, but may manifest, as ethereal jaunt, except to Ysgard and the Material Plane only, up to three times per day.

Spell-like abilities: At will- Lesser Vigor, Blessing, Bane, Aid; 1/d: Animal Shapes (Self only, Small or smaller)

Valkyrie Subtype

Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision.

Aura of Valor (Su): A righteous aura surrounds valkyries that fight or get angry. Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of an archon must succeed on a Will save to resist its effects. The save DC varies with the type of archon, is Charisma-based, and includes a +2 racial bonus. Those who fail take a -2 penalty on attacks, AC, and saves for 24 hours or until they successfully hit the archon that generated the aura. A creature that has resisted or broken the effect cannot be affected again by the same archon’s aura for 24 hours.

In addition, the valkyrie also is immune to fear (magical or otherwise) and compulsion effects. Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects and compulsion effects.

Immunity to poison and petrification.

+4 racial bonus on saves against disease.

Tongues (Su): All valkyries can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level 14th). This ability is always active.

A valkyrie overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields were chaotic and good-aligned.

Proficient with all Simple and Martial weapons, and Light and Medium armor, and all shields (including Tower shields)


Two Valkyries and the Valkyrie subtype, draft one. Need opinions and a PEACH or X, where X>2.

[Eldan]

Hm. You probably need to rewrite manifestation on the Flygjur. The etheral plane doesn't overlap the outer planes, so they can't go there. I think making them just incorporeal would be sufficient.

Also, I don't think they should have planeshift? Greater Teleport probably makes more sense, most exemplars have it. But most exemplars also can't leave their home planes unless called by a mortal from the other side.

Daudikostr are never, ever CR5. Level 12 paladin spells and level 12 maneuvers? Twelve outsider HD? That puts them far higher.

[Eldan]

I don't have anything to add at the moment, but I'm very interested. I've been running a homebrew Norse-themed game for almost four years now, so I can help on the Norse mythology front. (I agree with Vedhin, sticking with the Norse stuff would be my preference.)

Off the top of my head:

There should be Brachyurus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/brachyurus.htm) running wild on the first layer.

Azers near the boarders between Muspelheim and Nidavellir?
Sea Drakes (Fiend Folio) living in the inland seas of the first layer?

I'd put Frostburn's Midgard Dwarves in Nidavellir somewhere.

Telthor (Unapproachable East) as the Fylgia?

How about we start gathering a list of creatures for encounter tables for the three layers?

[Jurai]

All right. I rigged the Daudikostr table from the Fylgja table, and missed the CR thing. That's been fixed. Working on Norn right now, and the Arch-Norns after them. The Norn are going to be BALLISTIC.

[Jurai]

{table=head]Norn|
Size/Type|Large Outsider (Chaotic, Good, Valkyrie)
Hit Dice|24d8+128 (236 hp)
Initiative|+11
Speed|75 ft., Fly 150 ft. (Good)
Armor Class|37 (+7 Dexterity, +21 natural, -1 Size), touch 16, flat-footed 30
Base Attack/Grapple|+24/+38
Attack|Slam +34 (1d6+10, 20/x2)
Full Attack|Slam +34 (1d6+10, 20/x2)
Space/Reach|5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks|Martial Maneuvers, Spells, Spell-like Abilities
Special Qualities|Valkyrie Traits, Norn's Aptitude, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Improved Evasion
Saves|Fort +21, Ref +21, Will +20
Abilities|Str 30, Dex 24, Con 24, Int 22, Wis 22, Cha 24
Skills|Bluff +27, Concentration +27, Diplomacy +27, Handle Animal +27, Intimidate +27, Knowledge (Arcana) +27, Knowledge (History) +27, Knowledge (Planes, the) +27, Knowledge (Religion) +27, Listen +27, Martial Lore +27, Ride +27, Sense Motive +27, Spot +27
Feats|Power Attack, Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Greatbow) (B), Avenging Strike, Weapon Focus (Slam), Weapon Specialization (Slam), Rapid Assault, Knight of the Stars
Environment|Ysgard
Organization|Solitary or platoon (27 fylgjur, 9 valkyries (ToB), 3 Dauðikostr, 1 Norn)
Challenge Rating|24
Treasure|No coins; double goods; double items
Alignment|Always Chaotic Good
Advancement|25-37 HD (Large); 38-50 HD (Huge); or By Character Class
Level Adjustment|-[/table]

Spells: A Norn casts spells as a 24th level Cleric with the Chaos, Good, Strength, and War domains.

Maneuvers: A Norn readies and initiates maneuvers as a 24th level Warblade, with access to the schools of Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, White Raven, Devoted Spirit, Setting Sun, and Tiger Claw.

Norn's Aptitude (Ex): A Norn's training with a wide range of weaponry and tactics gives you great skill with particular weapons. A Norn may take feats that require levels in Fighter, such as Weapon Specialization, using its Racial Hit Dice as its Fighter level. A Norn also has the flexibility to adjust its weapon training. Each morning, it can spend 1 hour in weapon practice to change the designated weapon for any feat that applies only to a single weapon (such as Weapon Focus). It must have the newly designated weapon available during the practice session to make this change. You can adjust any number of your feats in this way, and you don’t have to adjust them all in the same way. However, you can’t change the weapon choices in such a way that you no longer meet the prerequisite for some other feat you possess.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A Norn cannot be flanked, except by a 28th level Rogue

Improved Evasion (Ex) A Norn takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks and half damage on a failed saves.

Spell-like abilities: At will- Lesser Vigor, Blessing, Bane, Aid, Tenser's Transformation (Others only, DC 29 if unwilling); 3/d- Plane Shift

[Eldan]

Hm. I don't think that fits the idea of a Norn, really. I've never heard of any Norn fighting in any legend, ever. I was really more thinking of them as oracles and subtle mages.

Perhaps use this one as a more high-class form of battle valkyrie?

[ksbsnowowl]

Hm. I don't think that fits the idea of a Norn, really. I've never heard of any Norn fighting in any legend, ever. I was really more thinking of them as oracles and subtle mages.

Perhaps use this one as a more high-class form of battle valkyrie?

Just an FYI, Pathfinder has a CR 18 Norn. See it here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/norn).

[Eldan]

Just an FYI, Pathfinder has a CR 18 Norn. See it here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/norn).

Hm. Not bad. Would have to be rewritten as an outsider, which probably bumps it a few points of CR by itself.

[ksbsnowowl]

I agree, it should be an outsider.

The abilities are interesting, and fall generally in line with the mythology of Norse Norns and Greek Fates. I'm a touch rusty on my Norn mythology, but the thread snipping seems more Fate-related than Norn.

[Prime32]

I kind of like the idea of valkyrie as a template, maybe with Divine Grace, armor weight reduction (treat light armor as unarmored, other armor as one category lighter) and a wolf-shaped phantom steed SLA. It would be nice to have something more PC-friendly at least.

[ksbsnowowl]

I kind of like the idea of valkyrie as a template, maybe with Divine Grace, armor weight reduction (treat light armor as unarmored, other armor as one category lighter) and a wolf-shaped phantom steed SLA. It would be nice to have something more PC-friendly at least.

Have you been reading the MM5 recently? Those abilities are eerily familiar to the Master of the Wild Hunt.

I don't see why the Einherjar template from the Deities and Demigods 3.5 update couldn't do the job. It even specifies that Valkyries are female paladins with the Einherjar template.

To save others the trouble of looking it up:


Valkyries are simply human female paladins with the einherjar template. Their mounts are celestial pegasi with all the normal benefits of being a paladin’s mount.

...

Treat “einherjar” as an acquired template that can be applied to any humanoid creature of good alignment that has at least 10 levels of barbarian, fighter, ranger, or paladin. The einherjar presented in Deities and Demigods are samples applied to 20th-level characters of three different races. An einherjar uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Divine Rank:Einherjar are quasi-deities, with a divine rank of 0.
Size and Type: Size remains unchanged. The creature’s type changes to outsider with the good subtype and it gains the extraplanar subtype if it visits the Material Plane.
Speed: The base creature’s base land speed increases by 30 feet.
Special Qualities: The base creature gains certain traits by virtue of its divine rank:
Quasi-Deity Traits: Immune to transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind-affecting effects; damage reduction 10/epic; fire resistance 5; spell resistance 32; immortal.

[Eldan]

I kind of like the idea of valkyrie as a template, maybe with Divine Grace, armor weight reduction (treat light armor as unarmored, other armor as one category lighter) and a wolf-shaped phantom steed SLA. It would be nice to have something more PC-friendly at least.

Some PC-friendly stuff should definitely be in here. Perhaps we can gather some ideas?

Einherjar template is a given. Some of the usual feats, too. Prestige classes?

A better Skald PrC. Seidr PrC for casters? A rune specialist diviner? We have berserkers, so we don't need those. Werebears already exist, too. I can't think of too much else from mythology.

[ksbsnowowl]

Einherjar template is a given. Some of the usual feats, too. Prestige classes?Just checking, you are discussing Valkyrie at this point, right? Not Einherjar in general?

One thing to note about Valkyrie: there were basically two versions of them in the Norse myths. The Battlemaidens of Asgard who chose the battle-slain for the halls of Valhalla, and a more fey-like woman who could shape-shift into a swan. If a man stole her feathered cloak, she would marry him, but if she ever found the cloak hidden away in a trunk, she'd don it and leave him.

I've played around with a few different kinds of Valkyrie for my homebrew game. Lawful Good Paladin-based, Chaotic Good Holy Liberator-based (both the Asgard types), as well as a fey version, which I worked up as Nereid (Stormwrack) Swanmays (BoED). I tied their class ability to shape-shift into a swan to their cloaks (a Nereid's soul is in her cloak), and if it was stolen, she couldn't shift into a swan. More than anything, this approach was merely a means of adapting a non-Norse monster into something close enough to a Norse creature.


A better Skald PrC."Better" as opposed to what? The Warrior Skald from Races of Faerun?


Seidr PrC for casters? A rune specialist diviner?If you want, I'll tell you how I differentiate Rune casters and Seidr casters in my own game, but I won't clutter the thread with a bunch of house rules unless you are interested. In extreme brevity, all spontaneous casters (sorcerers, bards, beguilers, etc) are Seidr casters, and all prepared casters (Wizards, Clerics, etc) are Rune casters. Runecasters can prepare a spell's rune (which becomes a required "focus") in three different ways (each of which has benefits and detractions), and when a Seidr caster expends the last daily spell slot of a given level, he must make a Fort save or become Fatigued.



We have berserkers, so we don't need those. Werebears already exist, too. I can't think of too much else from mythology.Yeah, Deities and Demigods covers Berserks/Ulfhednar, as does Bear Rager (CW).

The following was from some Scandinavian folklore more than mythology, but there is a story about a pair (or three?) of trolls, that only shared one eye between them. A small boy met them in the forest and tricked them out of eating him by convincing one of them to go get something from their cave. That troll of course needed the one eye to find his way, while the other two "watched" the boy. The boy ended up slaying the two blind trolls and escaping.
Anyway, I represented those by making Half-Troll Annis Hags. I gave them their Hag Eye, but made each of them blind. They could only see through the one eye.

[123456789blaaa]

The Glitterhaunt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040509a) seems like a natural fit for Nidavellir.

[Eldan]

Ooh. That is a nice creature.

I apologize for my absence lately. My computer died so I can't be online quite as often.

[Vedhin]

The Glitterhaunt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040509a) seems like a natural fit for Nidavellir.

That reminds me of the Glimmerskin(?) from MMII(?). It ought to work well on Ysgard, but it might not.
It's an incorporeal positive energy thingy that likes to fight. It "possess" people in order to fight things.

[123456789blaaa]

Ooh. That is a nice creature.

I apologize for my absence lately. My computer died so I can't be online quite as often.

No problem at all man. I haven't been posting much here either and I don't even have your excuse.


That reminds me of the Glimmerskin(?) from MMII(?). It ought to work well on Ysgard, but it might not.
It's an incorporeal positive energy thingy that likes to fight. It "possess" people in order to fight things.

Reading their entry (you're right about the name and origin BTW), they do seem quite fitting for Midguard. The love of fighting, being made of postive energy, the fact that they can't actually control their host, and can only stop giving them power, etc. I could especially see the majority of Chaotic and Good Glimmerskin immigrating (they're TN usually).

Since a glimmerskin can only remain away from the Positive Energy Plane for a number of hours equal to half its Constitution score (each round that it exceeds this limit, it must make a Fortitude save (DC 20) or die from energy dispersion), they wouldn't be permanent residents in Ysgard. This isn't really a problem though given that it's extremely likely that a portal to the Positive Energy Plane exists somwhere in the Heroic Domains (probably on the first layer). It would also be cool to have some powerful Glimmerskin that can automatically pass the Fort save. Perhaps they wander around Ysgard searching for a worthy host. There are some interesting stories to be spun from that.

Talking about this monster has reminded me of some apt Afro homebrew. Orange Slaad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5049502&postcount=4)are almost certainly a common sight on the layers of Ysgard (and probably most populous on Midguard). Half-Celestial ones even more so given the personalities of Orange Slaad and the nature of Slaad gender.

[Eldan]

I will start writing those encounter tables as soon as I have some time. Keep suggesting interesting stuff.

Notes to me, from the MM:

Ysgard:
Angel, any, rare, mostly non-native
Celestial animal, any, common,
Dinosaur, any, uncommon
Dire animal, any, common
Kraken, rare, (change alignment to any chaotic, rarely evil)
Lamia, rare, native, (local: Bastet's realm)
Lillend, uncommon, (local: Gates of the Moon, Infinite Staircase)
Lycanthrope, uncommon, native (any, but mostly boar, wolf, rarely tiger, tending to chaotic neutral)
Merfolf, uncommon, (local: oceans)
Minotaur, uncommon, (change alignment to CN, CG)
Ogre, common, (change alignment to CN, CG)
Owlbear, uncommon
Giant owl, uncommon
Roc, uncommon
Sphinx, uncommon, any (local: Bastet's realm, alignment CN, more rarely CG)
Titan, uncommon
Troll, common (alignment CN-ish)
Winter Wolf, rare (local: Jötunheim)
Ghaele, uncommon, non-native
Giants: cloud (rare), fire and Frost (common), storm, hill and stone (uncommon)
Gorgon, uncommon
Griffon, uncommon
Hippogriff, uncommon
Hydra, any, uncommon
Dryad, uncommon
Dwarf, any, common
Couatl, rare, non-native
Bralani, rare, non-native

Nidavellir:
Aranea
Delver
Derro

Muspelheim:
Fire giant
Azer (rare, non-native)

[Vedhin]

Another monster that belongs on Ysgard: the Leanan Sidhe (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/mm/mm20020315a). It's a muse, but curses you if you squander it's help instead of making great works of art. As in, they want you to make masterpieces.
It's TN, but Fey can easily be shunted over to CN.

[Eldan]

Another monster that belongs on Ysgard: the Leanan Sidhe (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/mm/mm20020315a). It's a muse, but curses you if you squander it's help instead of making great works of art. As in, they want you to make masterpieces.
It's TN, but Fey can easily be shunted over to CN.

Might fit, but I think Arborea might be closer. Art, fey, and capricious spirits usually go there, over Ysgard.

[Grimsage Matt]

I noticed the mention of Deep Trolls. Does Ysgard have any trolls beyond the Fenseir or can I make a steampunk version? Science offers up a lot of intresting new ways to kill people, so a race far underground with forges that never rest churning out weapons for an unending war. But even Odin himself is barred from their fortress like labratories, were progress never rests, and ever more potent weapons of war are devised.


So, steampunk or better artificers to compete with the mystic craftsmen in the depths?

[Jurai]

Celestial Goliaths (Races of Stone) on the first layer, some Anarchic creatures all over. Those Angry Armor Troll thingies from MMV, perhaps some Anarchic Dragonnes.

[Eldan]

Fiend Folio:
Ysgard:
Fensir, common
Fhorge, uncommon
Bog giant (uncommon*)
Sea drake (uncommon, especially around Selune's realm)
Spriggan (uncommon)

Muspelheim:
Flame snake, uncommon, usually chaotic

Nidavellir:
Caryatid Column, rare, crafted


*Seriously fitting, "reclusive beings who prowl swamps and marshlands to hunt dangerous beings such as black dragons." They are CR6 and hunt dragons.

[123456789blaaa]

I forgot that non-Unique exemplars can't breed with each other. So forget about Half-Celestial Slaadi specifically(though maybe created through means other than breeding? Rituals and the like?). Half-Slaadi would be a thing though.


I will start writing those encounter tables as soon as I have some time. Keep suggesting interesting stuff.

Notes to me, from the MM:
<snip>


What are the reasons for the following creatures being on the list: Kracken, Merfolk, Minotaur, Ogre, Owlbear, Giant Owl, Roc, Gorgon, Griffon, Hippogriff, Dryad, Couatl, Aranea, Delver, and Derro? Most don't clash with Ysgard but why are they suited to it?

Why are trolls there if the fensir already exist in the Fiend Folio?

Why are animals common but dinosaur's uncommon?


Might fit, but I think Arborea might be closer. Art, fey, and capricious spirits usually go there, over Ysgard.

Eh...I think it depends . I don't recall text about the Seelie Court spending more time on Arborea than Ysgard or the Beastlands. Nidavellir is a layer that partially embodies craftmanship which applies to art. It's also the home to the Good drow (elves have strong connections to the fey. This would also apply to the dark elves no?). Really, Nidavellir in general gives me a strong "fey" vibe (see again the Glitterhaunt I mentioned previously for example. It's a fey that fits that layer perfectly).

One could make the argument that the LS fits Ysgard because it hurts you in order to produce Great art. Honestly though, I don't really like the linked interpretation of the monster.

On another note, I'm thinking that the Queen of Air and Darkness could be an interesting foe to fight against on Ysgard. I would think that Nidavellir in particular would be the layer with a permanent Unseelie presence in fact. The Queen is a diety of magic (especially illusions) and darkness. This fits with the "mystery" aspect of Nidavellir and how it's a realm of darkness and caverns (incidentally, the Queen's divine realm is in Pandemonium). The Queen is focused on corrupting, degrading, and destroying while Nidavellir is focused on creating and crafting. Finally, the Queen is the greatest enemy of the Seelie Court and as you know, Ysgard is one of the 3 planes the travelling home of the Seelie Court visits. A probably goal is changing the third layer enough that it detaches from Ysgard and becomes another layer of Pandemonium (like how Menausus, a layer of Arcadia, was spiritually transmigrated to Mechanus).

I admit, I may be biased here. I think the Queen is awesome:



<snip>
The Unseelie Court is a lot more horrifying than one would think for a fey goddess. Centered around an immense single cavern of black stone, in the center of which is an enormous onyx stalagmite on which the Queen's throne rests, the Court is patrolled at its very outskirts by hell hounds and yeth hounds, the Queen's favored pets. Droves of undead laborers are used and abused by the tortured servants and slaves of the Queen, adnd no settlements exist in the realm in which to take shelter; all activity centers on the terrible spire and its empty throne. Corrupt fey are supplied for their tasks here and depart for unknown worlds to sow the Queen's malice, returning to bask in her darkness and prepare for new tasks. Above, a nebula of shadow and night hints at the discorporated presence of the malevolent goddess, surrounding the twinkling of the Black Diamond that rests on the throne.



DnD's take on the Queen of Air and Darkness:


Legend has it that in the time before history began, dwarven miners had unearthed a ten-faceted black gemstone of dark beauty, innocently deciding to present it to the queen of the fey as a gift. The fey princess who would become known as the Queen of Air and Darkness remained in court on this particular day while her sister Titania was bathing in the waters of the river Afon Bhlu, which fed the lake Cwm Glas. The gem, which is whispered to have been the creation of the Dark God, slowly corrupted the princess, eating away her physical body and destroying her soul. Ultimately she left the Seelie Court, absconding with her precious diamond and the great treasures of her race in a black chariot that belched smoke and fire. Soon after, the mountain from which the diamond was unearthed exploded, destroying the primordial fey realm of Ladinion and decimating the fey people. Since then the Seelie Court has been forced to wander the planes, never again finding a permanent home.

Myths of lost lands are common among the fey, and many speak of the Fading Lands that slowly disappear from the world of Oerth.

Yes she did ride down a mountain while it exploded behind her Vin Diesel style. Imagine it: the grand mountain that had been the beloved home of the Seelie Court for eons exploding while the Queen of Air and Darkness -half eaten by the corruption and oozing darkness- flew down like some unnatural bird of prey in a giant black chariot that blasted flames and smoke behind it. A chariot glittering with countless shining treasures and an enormous pitch-black diamond rocking in the back.

Is that not metal?

(here's the page (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Queen_of_Air_and_Darkness) that the legend was from. It's skimpy but still sadly one of the most complete sources I've seen for the Queen.

Rereading the OP has gotten me thinking of Chinese/Japanese inspiration again. Some thoughts:

You've mentioned that there are poetry contests in the halls of the various gods (since the Norse appreciated such things). You've also said that in Ysgard "every warrior is a poet". In China and Japan, poetry is held in extremely high regard. They both have a rich and interesting history of it. This could make for a refreshing change from the Norse style of poetry. I imagine Death Poems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_poem)would be especially popular :smalltongue:.

In the same vein, seeing Ikebana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikebana), Ukiyo-e (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukiyo-e), and Calligraphy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_calligraphy) would be a great infusion of diversity into Nidavellir. I'm also reminded of the Japanese legend involving 1000 Origami Cranes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_origami_cranes). Perhaps in DnD, you really do get a Wish!.

It occurs to me that the previous two paragraphs may seem a bit obvious, I think it's still important to emphasize the diversity of Ysgard though. While Nidavellir is about craftmanship is general, the Norse influence is so pervasive throughout the plane that before this thread I certainly didn't think of the dwaves of Nidavellir creating origami cranes. The calligraphy and such are just examples. It's important to draw from a wide variety of cultures.

Shou-xing's divine realm is called the Orchards of Immortality. Going by RL myth, these would be filled with golden peaches that grant immortality (duh :smalltongue:) and only ripen once every 3 thousand years. I would probably model this as allowing you to benefit from Ysgards planar traits anywhere on the Planes. Immortality isn't really a huge thing in dnd. This ties it closer to Ysgard and is somewhat unique. Seems like a great adventure location for PC's as well.

There isn't a lot of info on Shou-xing. At first glance he doesn't seem to quite fit Ysgard. He's a god of immortality and old age. What's so Ysgardian about that? You could tie the immortality part with Ysgards True Ressurection effect (Ysgard always gives you the chance to get back up and keep trying). What I would do though, is to make him a god of Mister Miyagi types. Wise, litte old mentors who can kick your ass (whether it's at martial arts or paiting or whatever).What's Fenrir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenrir) (link to wiki page in name) like in DnD? I can't find any canon sources on him (I'll ask Afro) so it looks like we'll have to create our own interpretation. Some questions and ideas on the subject:

Is he an Abomination? He seems to be a Unique creature though...

While he's a wolf, he should also probably have something to reflect the fact that his mother was a giantess. Also, perhaps we could make his mother the same giantess that is said to have seduced Annam and then birthed the god Vaprak? It would be interesting to explore who this hidious giantess was. Or maybe the disguised giantess wasn't a giantess at all but instead the goddess of the hags, Cegilune? She is said to have mated with the evil and stupid giant god Grolantor, and as such is considered one of the ancestresses of the hill giant race so this isn't out-of-character at all for her.

From what what little that I've read on Wikipedia, Fenrir actually doesn't seem evil (see the section under Gylfaginning chapter 34). The Norse gods are kind of jerks while Fenrir seems to deal with them honestly. This could be an interesting twist. Maybe he turned evil after he was tricked? Or maybe he actually forgave them and is only playing his role in Ragnarok because he believes that Fate is immutable? That's a pretty strong theme in the Norse myths and would be a great tie-in to the Planescapes themes of belief changing the world...

On his two sons:


In Norse mythology, Hati Hróðvitnisson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hati_Hr%C3%B3%C3%B0vitnisson)(first name meaning "He Who Hates, Enemy"[1]) is a wolf that according to Gylfaginning chases the Moon across the night sky, just as the wolf Sköll chases the Sun during the day, until the time of Ragnarök when they will swallow these heavenly bodies, after which Fenrir will break free from his bonds and kill Odin.


In Norse mythology, Sköll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sk%C3%B6ll) (Old Norse "Treachery")[1] is a wolf that chases the horses Árvakr and Alsviðr, that drag the chariot which contains the sun (Sól) through the sky every day, trying to eat her. Sköll has a brother, Hati, who chases Máni, the moon. At Ragnarök, both Sköll and Hati will succeed in their quests.

(links to their Wiki pages in the names)

Hati is actually a god of solar eclipses (perhaps he could have a weak alliance with the Queen?). I would suggest making him the enemy of Selune (and perhaps the god Soma. I'm asking Afro about him).

Skoll doesn't seem to be a god (in DnD land, I would say that none of the 3 wolves were born gods. Hati was the only one to achieve godhood) . Is there a sun god on Ysgard?

Hati seems like a natural fit for a god of evil lycanthropes (particularly werewolves) and worgs. Perhaps some worship Skoll and Fenrir as well but Hati is the actual god. Skoll and Fenrir should only have small cults (depending on the interpretation of Fenrir, the Lycanthropes that worship him could also be Neutral or even Good). Myabe some evil lycanthopes should be added to the encounter tables?

I can't seem to find out the mother of Skoll and Hati. A potentially interesting void there.

What if one of the 3 wolves mated with a being of frost and cold (probably a giant?) and produced the winter wolf race?
I'm thinking we should try and focus on Muspelheim. The other layers are getting some nice details but there hasn't really been anything for the middle one. It's just seems so...bland. Like another version of the Elemental Plane of Magma. Besides the idea of tying each of the Norns to a layer, I'm not getting any inspiration. Does anyone have some good ideas for it?

EDIT:



<snip>
Sea drake (uncommon, especially around Selune's realm)
Spriggan (uncommon)
<snip>


Why Sea drakes? And why Spriggans (they sometimes associated with the Queen. Did you have the same ideas I did?)?

Also, spoilering some bits of my post because it's kind of huge.

[ksbsnowowl]

What's Fenrir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenrir) (link to wiki page in name) like in DnD? I can't find any canon sources on him (I'll ask Afro) so it looks like we'll have to create our own interpretation.


Brachyuruses are the primordial stock from which all lesser wolves and canines devolved. The mythological Fenris Wolf itself springs directly from brachyurus stock. Thus why I said earlier that Brachyuruses should be running wild on the first layer.

As for the Seelie and Unseelie courts... Are they cannonically different from Morwel and the Court of Stars? I think they maybe are; I read up on it about a year ago, but have forgotten the specifics. I'll admit, I use Morwel with the Saint template as queen of the Seelie court, and Morwel with the Shadow Creature template for Mab, queen of the Unseelie. I then treat the Creature Catalog converstions of Tatiana and Lussina from Birthright's Blood Spawn book as their respective children (with the appropriate Saint or Shadow template). I used the Seelie and Unseelie as the basis for Vanir for my Viking game, because the Sagas are sparse on Vanir info. That may be why I can't remember if the Eladrin Court of Stars and the Seelie are different things :smalltongue:

Also:
Sea Drakes - what is more "Viking!" than killing sea serpents?
Spriggans - Although Spriggans are more Celtic in origin, keep in mind the long reach of the Norse seafarers. Dublin was founded by Vikings. In my Viking game, I include just about any Celtic or British legendary monster. (Not that such matters here; I mention it only for comparison's sake.)

Edit: remembered one other small point I meant to make.



Reading [the Glimmerskin] entry (you're right about the name and origin BTW), they do seem quite fitting for Midguard. The love of fighting, being made of postive energy, the fact that they can't actually control their host, and can only stop giving them power, etc. I could especially see the majority of Chaotic and Good Glimmerskin immigrating (they're TN usually).

Since a glimmerskin can only remain away from the Positive Energy Plane for a number of hours equal to half its Constitution score (each round that it exceeds this limit, it must make a Fortitude save (DC 20) or die from energy dispersion), they wouldn't be permanent residents in Ysgard. This isn't really a problem though given that it's extremely likely that a portal to the Positive Energy Plane exists somwhere in the Heroic Domains (probably on the first layer). It would also be cool to have some powerful Glimmerskin that can automatically pass the Fort save. Perhaps they wander around Ysgard searching for a worthy host. There are some interesting stories to be spun from that. Glimmerskins advance by class levels, not HD. Tack on two levels each of Barbarian, Fighter, and Ranger, and make sure you picked up Steadfast Determination along the way. Actually, a third level of Ranger would be handy, as it would auto-qualify you for Steadfast Determination, but whatever. The point is you actually CAN make a glimmerskin that is immune to that problem (barring Con-damage or drain).

[Eldan]

Hm. Justification on the monsters...

Honestly, most didn't have much more justification than "We have heroes, they need large monsters to fight". Sea Drakes are especially important for Beowulf. And it's expliciately mentioned that the Ocean around the Gates of the Moon and Selune's Realm are full of giant serpents.

[Grimsage Matt]

Okay, heres the Deep Troll Grunt, the "I'm a common foot solider, and I'm more intelligent then many wizards" type troll with some high end weapons, and serious resitence to magic to the point where they can't use it in any way, shape or form. Their fortress labratories/homes are on Nidavellir, but they would have several foundries on Muspelheim, and would treat the battlefields of Ysgard as a testing ground for their weapons.

They would trade with anyone who kills fiends, and they will shoot first ask questions never to any evil-desended planetouched, half-fiends, or fiends. Not to mention warlocks (they call them collaberators).

It should be noted that they aren't meant to be so much pro-good as anti-feind. They can keep Grudges for a long time.


{table]Deep Troll Grunt|_
Size/Type| Large Giant (Earth)
Hit Dice|8d8+48 (84hp)
Initiative|+4
Speed| 30ft
Armor Class|29 (-1 Size, +10 Armor, +4 Deflection, +6 Natural), Touch 13, Flatfooted 29
Base Attack/Grapple|+6/+16
Attack|Greatsword +13 (3d6+9 plus 2d6 Plasma) melee or Grunt Rifle +7 (2d10 plus 2d6 Plasma) ranged touch
Full Attack|Greatsword +13/+8 (3d6+9 plus 2d6 Plasma) Melee or Grunt Rifle +7/+2 (2d10 plus 2d6 Plasma) ranged touch
Space./Reach|10ft./10ft
Special Attacks|Anti-Fiend Grenade, Platoon Fighting
Special Qualities|Regeneration 5, Damage Reduction 10/Admentine, SR 30, Platoon Defence, Interfering Resistence
Saves|Fort +12, Ref+2, Will+8
Abillities|Str 22, Dex 10, Con 22, Int 26, Wis 16, Cha 10
Skills|Craft (Armorsmithing)+19, Craft (Gunsmithing)+19, Craft (Weaponsmithing)+19, Knowledge (Architecture and engineering, Chemistry, History, Physics, The Planes)+27*, Listen+16, Spot+16.
Feats|Improved Initiative, Endurance, Steadfast Determination, Favored Enemy (Evil Outsiders)(B).
Enviroment|Ysgard
Organization|Patrol (10 Grunts), Taskforce (100 Grunts, 1-3 Specalists and a Thane), Division (1000 Grunts, 5 Thanes, 10-30 Specalists and a Jarl), Legion (10,000 Grunts, 25 Thanes, 100-300 Specalists, 5 Jarls and a Sage), or Army(100,000 Grunts, 1000-3000 Specalists, 125 Thanes, 25 Jarls, 5 Sages and a Deep Sage)
Challange Rating|10
Treasure|Double Coins, Double Goods, No Magic Items, Large Deepforged Fullplate with Plasma Shielding, Deepforged Plasma Greatsword and Grunt Rifle.
Alignment|Usually TN
Advancement|By Character Class
Level Adjustment|- [/table]

Deep Trolls are refuges from a meterial world who settled in the depths of Nidavellir a few thousand years ago. Forced from their homes by a fiendish invasion, these normally peaceful members of the Troll familly were changed. Always inclined to the pursuit of science, seeing how their resistence to the supernatural pervented them from following that path.

Before the invasion, they had built a subterranean world of wonders, comparable only to the greatest of magitech nations. But there was not a hint of magic. But, they were betrayed and invaded, their homes sacked, and thousands died. In a single night the Deep Trolls civilization burned, and they became little more then wanderers, scraping out a living in the depths.

Their chance came when one of their few remaining allies opened a planar gate, hoping to escape the flames that treachery brought into the world. As one, they swore that in the fullness of time, they would return, reclaim their homeland, and have their revenge.

However, Deep Trolls are long lived. While not immortal, the eldest of them, the Deep Sages, are content to let their forces build, to train in this land of war undying. The end results are soliders that surpass any found on the meterial plane, and soon, they will march.

Combat;

Deep Troll Grunts fight as part of a unit. The first row will enage in melee with their plasma enhanced blades, while the second will take shots with their guns.

Anti-Fiend Grenade (EX); Each Deep Troll Grunt carries 3d6 grenades on them at all times. These are splash weapons that deal 4d8 untyped damage to outsiders with the Evil subtype. (Range increment 15ft, max range 60ft, 10ft splash, Ref save 25 for half)

Platoon Fighting (EX); Deep Troll Grunts fight better together. Each Deep Troll Grunt gains a +2 competence bonus to attack and damage rolls for each other Deep Troll Grunt next to them.

Platoon Defence (EX); Deep Troll Grunts are trained to shore up their comrades defences. Each Deep Troll Grunt gains a +2 competence bonus to Armor Class and Saves for each other Deep Troll Grunt next to them.

Regeneration (EX); The Deep Trolls recover as swiftly as their more mundane cousians, but is slightly diffrent. Cold and Sonic damage deals lethal damage to Deep Trolls.

Interfering Resistence (EX); A Deep Trolls SR applies to any effect it may use in addtion to those targeting it. In addtion, it can never be lowered, and it affects all hostile spells reguardless if they normally offer spell resistence or not.


Equipment;

Deepforged (Weapon and Armor Enhancement); Deep Trolls are masters of mundane crafting. As such, they have learned to make more effeciant weapons and armor then normal. Each application of Deepforged increases a weapons bonus to attack rolls by 1, and Ac bonus of Armor by 1. The Harness and HP of Deepforged gear is increased by 3/10 each time it is applied.


Plasma Sheilding; A common armor enhancement among Deep Trolls, it gives armor an addtional deflection bonus to Armor Class, and increases the Hardness and HP of the armor by 5/5 for each +1 bonus applied to it.

Plasma Coating; A common weapon enhancement among Deep Trolls, it gives weapons +1d6 plasma damage each time it is applied. Plasma is half fire and half electricity, but ignores immunities and resistences unless the target has both.

[Tragak]

How about Demons?

The Celestial Realms tend to stay out of the Blood War whenever possible, as every Demon and Devil that kill each other is a Demon and a Devil not killing a Celestial. However, if there were ever a Plane full of Celestials that want to take a more active approach to the Demons and the Devils, it would be the heroic rabble-rousers of Ysgard.

I imagine that there are special cabals devoted to kidnapping Demons from Pandemonium, Carceri, and The Abyss, forcing a fight where millions of Celestials gang up on one Demon as opposed to the inverse (an attack force of Ysgardians would be slaughtered, no resurrection, by the hordes of Demons were they to go to The Abyss to fight), and using soul traps to make sure that the Demon does not resurrect in the morning.

I don't imagine that these cabals would try kidnapping Devils to kill, as Baatorian society is far more heavily regulated and missing citizens would be noticed more quickly, which would expose Ysgard to a higher chance of retaliation from Baator than they face from The Abyss.

[Vedhin]

millions of Celestials gang up on one Demon


No. Just no.
Not in Ysgard.

[Tragak]

No. Just no.
Not in Ysgard. Well, not at the same time, but even if the demon kills the initial kidnappers, there is still an entire Plane of warriors ready to kill it on sight, and if they all know what the soul-trap plan is, then the demon only needs to lose once.

[Vedhin]

Well, not at the same time, but even if the demon kills the initial kidnappers, there is still an entire Plane of warriors ready to kill it on sight, and if they all know what the soul-trap plan is, then the demon only needs to lose once.

Still no. Plans involving kidnapping and/or ganging up on something are not Ysgard's style. If Ysgard pits you against an orc horde, it does so you can prove how awesome you are by beating them, not get butchered.

[Eldest]

Heck, it'd be more in character for the Ysgardians to raid the Abyss/9 Hells, as opposed to bringing the demons/devils to Ysgard. They like danger and adventure: bringing back the possibility of real death to deal damage to your enemies would be more in character than kidnapping somebody and throwing them in a pit with a challenger. And then another challenger. And then another.

[123456789blaaa]

Any thoughts on my thoughts about the mythic wolves, the Queens "presence" in Nidavellir, Shou-xing, etc?


Thus why I said earlier that Brachyuruses should be running wild on the first layer.

As for the Seelie and Unseelie courts... Are they cannonically different from Morwel and the Court of Stars? I think they maybe are; I read up on it about a year ago, but have forgotten the specifics. I'll admit, I use Morwel with the Saint template as queen of the Seelie court, and Morwel with the Shadow Creature template for Mab, queen of the Unseelie. I then treat the Creature Catalog converstions of Tatiana and Lussina from Birthright's Blood Spawn book as their respective children (with the appropriate Saint or Shadow template). I used the Seelie and Unseelie as the basis for Vanir for my Viking game, because the Sagas are sparse on Vanir info. That may be why I can't remember if the Eladrin Court of Stars and the Seelie are different things :smalltongue:

See the first spoiler (there's also a link at the bottom).


Also:
Sea Drakes - what is more "Viking!" than killing sea serpents?
Spriggans - Although Spriggans are more Celtic in origin, keep in mind the long reach of the Norse seafarers. Dublin was founded by Vikings. In my Viking game, I include just about any Celtic or British legendary monster. (Not that such matters here; I mention it only for comparison's sake.)

Problem with Spriggans is that they already have a history in DnD. Plopping monsters inspired by Norse myths into Ysgard because of the out-of-universe connections works because most of those monsters are either already tied in with Ysgard or don't have much fluff (and with the more unintelligent monsters, just say they were brought in by someone else). It's easy to plop em in. Spriggans are creations of the god Urdlen though. They're much more Abyssal than Ysgardian. Why are they in Ysgard?


Edit: remembered one other small point I meant to make.

Glimmerskins advance by class levels, not HD. Tack on two levels each of Barbarian, Fighter, and Ranger, and make sure you picked up Steadfast Determination along the way. Actually, a third level of Ranger would be handy, as it would auto-qualify you for Steadfast Determination, but whatever. The point is you actually CAN make a glimmerskin that is immune to that problem (barring Con-damage or drain).

And PC classes are only taken by exeptional individuals anyways! It works out great :smallcool:.


Hm. Justification on the monsters...

Honestly, most didn't have much more justification than "We have heroes, they need large monsters to fight". Sea Drakes are especially important for Beowulf. And it's expliciately mentioned that the Ocean around the Gates of the Moon and Selune's Realm are full of giant serpents.

You can find huge monsters on the Prime easily.This is an Outer Plane, a realm of thought and belief. It's inhabitants should either reflect some aspect of the plane or have some connection to those that do IMO. Adding any big monster would just dilute the impact of the plane (not a lot but still). The intelligent monsters especially need an excuse to stick around. Krackens for example are extremely un-Ysgardian. I'm sure one could contrive a reason as to why there are some in Ysgard but you could do that with any monster.

The justification for Sea Drakes make sense. I'm assuming you added Spriggans because of their origins in Celtic myth?

My previous two questions in case you missed em:


Why are trolls there if the fensir already exist in the Fiend Folio?

Why are animals common but dinosaur's uncommon?

Just noticed the inclusion of Bog Giants. An interesting choice. Swamps seem kind of un-Ysgardian though.

On second thought, I'm not sure that everyone that comes to the plane getting the True Ressurection effect is appropriate. Wouldn't that give an advantage to the malicious beings willing to use soul-binding magics and the like? Not to mention the torture opportunities. Very un-Ysgardian...what do you guys think?

[TuggyNE]

Krackens for example are extremely un-Ysgardian.

It's Kraken, not Kracken.

I just … dislike seeing that particular error.

[Eldan]

That wasn't a definite list. Those were some notes for me on "creatures to think about". For many of them, I hadn't even really checked the fluff yet, so we can happily kick some.

As for the resurrection effect. My idea was that for out-of-planers, a valkyrie has to hand it out. That would make sense in the fluff and fit the legends.

[ksbsnowowl]

As for the resurrection effect. My idea was that for out-of-planers, a valkyrie has to hand it out. That would make sense in the fluff and fit the legends.

Oh, I like that idea. For a non-native, you can't have just died, you have to have died in a way that impressed a Valkyrie enough that she would "catch" your soul as it departs, and bring it back to your body.

[Tragak]

Oh, I like that idea. For a non-native, you can't have just died, you have to have died in a way that impressed a Valkyrie enough that she would "catch" your soul as it departs, and bring it back to your body. Sounds good :smalltongue: I like it.

[Jurai]

Pardon the Thread Necromancy, but any news? Or has this died?

In other news, working on a prestige class.

[Tragak]

Pardon the Thread Necromancy, but any news? Or has this died? If a thread dies in Ysgard, you don't need necromancy for it to come back :smallcool:


In other news, working on a prestige class. Is the class Ysgard-themed, by any chance?

[Jurai]

Yep. Crusader+Surprise ingredient basis.

[123456789blaaa]

I kept wanting to post but RL+procrastination conspired to stop me. Anyways, I do have ideas for a bunch of minor, disparate stuff to post. I'll try to get them up within a week at least.

[Tragak]

I've been working on a series of feats for people to earn based on the Outer Planes, would anybody here like to see the two that I have for Ysgard?

[Talothorn]

I've been working on a series of feats for people to earn based on the Outer Planes, would anybody here like to see the two that I have for Ysgard?

I would. I am loving this thread.

On an aside, do you guys think the celtic deities would fit in ysgard, or are they more beastlands? I always felt they were more ysgard appropriate, with the exception of how dnd altered the original concept of druids to be nature worshipers instead of spirit shamans and gish sorcerers.

[Eldan]

Planescape places Tir na nog in the Outlands. A few of the gods are scattered elsewhere.

[Tragak]

I've been working on a series of feats for people to earn based on the Outer Planes, would anybody here like to see the two that I have for Ysgard?I would. I am loving this thread. Here you go :smallwink:

Skirmisher Tactics: Ysgard has taught you that flexibility in the real world trumps predictability in some general's mental world, and you have learned to use disorganized battle plans that "proper" generals consider to be too "unreliable".

Prerequisites:
Either DEX 18, WIS 18, and/or INT 18
Knowledge (Planes) 5 ranks
Affinity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?332741-Planar-Affinity&p=17048470#post17048470) for Ysgard

When both yourself and an ally threaten an enemy at melee range, you receive a flanking bonus against that enemy.

Normal: you must have an ally directly opposite from you, rather than just anywhere adjacent to a common enemy, in order for you to be flanking that enemy.

Rejuvenation: Your soul is always ready to be brought back from the dead, and you can respond to divine magic that would otherwise be too weak to take hold of you.

Prerequisites:
Knowledge (Planes) 5 ranks
Affinity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?332741-Planar-Affinity&p=17048470#post17048470) for Ysgard

An ally may choose to cast Raise Dead on you under circumstances that would otherwise have required Resurrection instead. The ally casting Raise Dead on you in this way must make a caster level check (DC 20); is he fails, then you lose 1d3 levels upon coming back instead of just 1.

An ally may choose to cast Resurrection on you under circumstances that would otherwise have required True Resurrection instead. The ally casting Resurrection on you in this way must make a caster level check (DC 25); is he fails, then you lose 1d4 levels upon coming back instead of just 1.

An ally may choose to cast Raise Dead on you under circumstances that would otherwise have required True Resurrection instead. The ally casting Raise Dead on you in this way must make a caster level check (DC 30); is he fails, then you lose 1d6 levels upon coming back instead of just 1.