What Do Giant Paladins Ride?

[Catman]

Simple version- What does a Large sized Paladin ride?

Longer version- I want a Frost Giant Paladin. I figure that for a character, the level adjustment would make being a spellcaster unideal compared to a earthshaking melee combatant. And, being Lawful Good is ironic. I also like the idea of an absentminded gentle Giant, unaware of his size or strength or the stereotypes Frost Giants get lumped into, wandering the land serving as an agent of justice. He could be just as destructive as any other Giant, despite his Code of Conduct, since he'll have to defend himself against frightened townfolks, travelers, and... well, just about anyone.

[Pokonic]

.....Mammoths? Gigantic horses? :smalltongue:

[Malimar]

I once had a half-ogre paladin who had an elephant. Other possibilities include mammoths and certain dinosaurs.

[Inuzuka]

Dire version of the normal mounts?

[Vhaidara]

Legendary Ponies

[Thurbane]

Steeds for Frost Giants mentioned in the books are Mastodon (MM3) and Thrym Hound (MM5). Not sure if any others are specifically mentioned.

[gomipile]

Well, by RAW, a paladin does get a mount, so it has to be something the paladin can mount and ride. The text says "This mount is usually a heavy warhorse." Implying that it isn't always a heavy warhorse, and can be something else. The rules don't offer any particular guidance about what else might be chosen for a mount, however.

So, I guess the DM has to fill in the gaps and give you something one size category larger than your paladin which is at least quadrupedal.

I realize that everything I just said has been assumed in this thread. I just thought I should throw it out there for the benefit of anyone wondering what the rules have to say.

I'd say it would be reasonable and practical to get a non-flying quadrupedal animal one size category larger than the paladin, with the warbeast template added, since that is what heavy warhorses are for medium creatures.

[Malimar]

Well, by RAW, a paladin does get a mount, so it has to be something the paladin can mount and ride. The text says "This mount is usually a heavy warhorse." Implying that it isn't always a heavy warhorse, and can be something else. The rules don't offer any particular guidance about what else might be chosen for a mount, however.

So, I guess the DM has to fill in the gaps and give you something one size category larger than your paladin which is at least quadrupedal.

I realize that everything I just said has been assumed in this thread. I just thought I should throw it out there for the benefit of anyone wondering what the rules have to say.

I'd say it would be reasonable and practical to get a non-flying quadrupedal animal one size category larger than the paladin, with the warbeast template added, since that is what heavy warhorses are for medium creatures.

I believe there are official rules for non-standard mounts somewhere. I want to say in the DMG.

[Thurbane]

I believe there are official rules for non-standard mounts somewhere. I want to say in the DMG.
DMG p.204 & 205. Doesn't specifically touch on mounts for Large characters though.

[Malimar]

DMG p.204 & 205.

Yes, that, thank you!


Doesn't specifically touch on mounts for Large characters though.

Hm, so it doesn't. I thought it at least had a recommendation for mount CR as compared to paladin level, from which you could determine other suitable mounts, but no, it just gives a floor for that, not a ceiling.

[Slipperychicken]

T-Rex (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm) is Huge sized.

[Urpriest]

RAW, while there are alternate Small and Medium familiars for Huge masters, alternate Paladin mounts are only listed in Medium and Large, for Small and Medium masters.

The deeper issue here is that Huge creatures are often substantially more powerful than Large ones, so it's hard to get a Huge creature that's balanced as a Paladin mount.

In general, as a PC Giant Paladin I'd trade out the Mount for another class feature, and pick up a Wild Cohort or a regular Cohort or the like. As an NPC, I'd also trade out the Mount, and just give the character a suitable mount of CR -2 to create a mixed encounter.

[gomipile]

The deeper issue here is that Huge creatures are often substantially more powerful than Large ones, so it's hard to get a Huge creature that's balanced as a Paladin mount.

I'd just say that the extra powerful mount is part of what the LA that got the paladin a larger size category is paying for. If the difference in mount power is less than anything 2 extra caster class levels could get the party's full casters, the DM is getting off easy, so to speak.

[Angelalex242]

Have him ride a Silver Dragon. By the time those are big enough to carry him, his ECL will be paid back in spades. As a bonus, the Silver Dragon gets someone it doesn't have to worry about breathing on.

[dspeyer]

The minimal huge silver dragon has bab 22, str 27, cl 7 and breath dc 26. That will overshadow a paladin at any level where paladins are worth playing.

There are much weaker large creatures, of course. Probably the weakest is the Huge Monstrous Centipede (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousCentipede.htm), but that doesn't seem very paladinish. That seems to be the recurring theme with low-cr huge creatures: insects, snakes, lizards, sharks, bats... All rather ominous. The Arctic Cat (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/mainlist2.pl?name=Arctic_Cat,_Very_Advanced) is an option, if the lack of a source isn't killer.

Around cr 7 you start seeing options. Allosaurus (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/mainlist2.pl?name=Allosaurus), Ankylosaurus (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/mainlist2.pl?name=Ankylosaurus), Bulette (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bulette.htm), Elephant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elephant.htm)...

[Flickerdart]

DMG p.204 & 205. Doesn't specifically touch on mounts for Large characters though.
It gives pretty sensible guidelines - IIRC the CR has to be Paladin level -3 (-4 for flying mounts). So a 5th level Frost Giant Paladin wouldn't actually be able to ride his mount for 2 levels, until he could get a Huge Shark or something.

[Metahuman1]

Frankly, if you mixing Frost Giant and Paladin, I'd just HAND you any critter you could point too in a book and go, "here, it's a size category bigger then me but not more then that." to start with.

[TuggyNE]

There are much weaker large creatures, of course. Probably the weakest is the Huge Monstrous Centipede (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousCentipede.htm), but that doesn't seem very paladinish. That seems to be the recurring theme with low-cr huge creatures: insects, snakes, lizards, sharks, bats... All rather ominous.

At this point I feel the need to note that SilverClawShift had a paladin riding a celestial monstrous spider (look under Ballroom Blitz).

[Urpriest]

I feel like a Frost Giant Paladin is really perfect for Wild Cohort. All those RHD ought to serve some purpose, and it's not like there's anything like Practiced Spellcaster for a Paladin Mount.

[Flickerdart]

I feel like a Frost Giant Paladin is really perfect for Wild Cohort. All those RHD ought to serve some purpose, and it's not like there's anything like Practiced Spellcaster for a Paladin Mount.

Actually, that gives me an idea - a Frost Giant has enough levels to do a Cleric dip for the spells and TU and then jump straight into Prestige Paladin, accelerating somewhat the whole progression deal.

[Fax Celestis]

Maybe a dire rhinoceros? Fiend Folio.

[Metahuman1]

Actually, that gives me an idea - a Frost Giant has enough levels to do a Cleric dip for the spells and TU and then jump straight into Prestige Paladin, accelerating somewhat the whole progression deal.

Why stop there, throw a level of Crusader on top of that just before going Pally. Helllloooo High level maneuvers.

[Spore]

Ice Linnorm
Mammoth/Mastodon
Wooly Rhinoceros
Silver Dragon

Hey, I'm not telling you to get a silver dragon right away, but get a silver dragon!

[Flickerdart]

Why stop there, throw a level of Crusader on top of that just before going Pally. Helllloooo High level maneuvers.

Because that delays your horse, and the other paladins will make fun of you.

[Metahuman1]

You advanced the mount by 3 levels and delay it by 1. Your still ahead of the game. Plus, your mount will thank you when you can charge on it and not provoke that AoO.

[Blackhawk748]

Who cares about AoO when mounted? That is what Mounted Combat is for, honestly its about all ive ever used if for lol I second the Mammoth, a Giant on a Mammoth is just too cool

[SiuiS]

Giant horses.


Or heck, in your specific case, a dragon! Just talk the DM into using the legal adjustment for you as part of your paladin level and taking the dive on mount level to get a dragon.

Oh, and the, iirc, belt of wide earth? Allows you to be lightly encumbered up to a medium load. I had a friend bring a guy to the table whose "mount" was a falcon with enough strength to carry him. So that can reduce the requirements of size and stuff enough to make it feasible.

[Coidzor]

How gnarly is just increasing the size category of the standard paladin mounts to accommodate it?

[Angelalex242]

Hey, if the Silver Dragon is more awesome then the PC, just say you're playing a Silver Dragon with a Frost Giant Paladin Cohort :)

My human sized Dragon Riders only ever get a very young->young gold dragon to play with, alas, (when the very young dragon gets enough HD from being a mount to be one age category better, he gets the age category instead and goes back to beginning mount stuff).

I've had one of my dragon mounts claim she likes collecting people and I was her prize part of the collection (which included the rest of the party). My paladin was okay with that, cause...hey, DRAGON! Also, it keeps one humble. :P

[Socratov]

Hey, if the Silver Dragon is more awesome then the PC, just say you're playing a Silver Dragon with a Frost Giant Paladin Cohort :)

My human sized Dragon Riders only ever get a very young->young gold dragon to play with, alas, (when the very young dragon gets enough HD from being a mount to be one age category better, he gets the age category instead and goes back to beginning mount stuff).

I've had one of my dragon mounts claim she likes collecting people and I was her prize part of the collection (which included the rest of the party). My paladin was okay with that, cause...hey, DRAGON! Also, it keeps one humble. :P
Makes me think of a certain fantasy indivisual who rode a blue dragon, whose movie was bad, but whose books were okay... He had sort of palladin values even if he wasn't as lawful at times...

[lytokk]

I'd simply say frost giant and a woolly mammoth, as others have said. Its the right size, I think, and its thematically correct for regions that the frost giant should be from.

[Osiris]

Bulettes are cool, but not so Paladin-y. If you're a Paladin if Freedom, the chaotic good type, maybe you'd prefer going on the back of a monstrous torpedo.

[Angelalex242]

Makes me think of a certain fantasy indivisual who rode a blue dragon, whose movie was bad, but whose books were okay... He had sort of palladin values even if he wasn't as lawful at times...

That movie wasn't bad. Even if the villain suffers when he's not stoned. Do NOT prolong his suffering! Durza! Fetch him the royal wacky weed!

Saphira sounds like she's competing with Arya in the movie. If dragons could take human form in that movie like they can in D&D, Arya would never had a chance, and the race of Half Dragons would come into existence.

And really, Eragon can't help the fact he rolled a 6 for his int score and a 4 for his wisdom score. Or maybe I've got that backwards. Whatever.

[ellindsey]

Two horses - one for each foot.

[Catman]

Because that delays your horse, and the other paladins will make fun of you.

I think we're kind of past that by this point...

[Starmage21]

Certain creatures in the base MM have a Level Adjustment with the (Cohort) modifier. Those are usually creatures suited to being used in place of animal companions or special mounts. The Nightmare and Unicorn are such creatures.


Example: Nightmare is +4 (Cohort) LA. That means that it can be the special mount of a Blackguard that is 4 levels higher than the base level at which they get a mount (Blackguard 9). Alternatively a Paladin 9 can have the Unicorn as a mount.

Note that I dont think this is 100% correct interpretation, just one that has worked in the past.

[Flickerdart]

Certain creatures in the base MM have a Level Adjustment with the (Cohort) modifier. Those are usually creatures suited to being used in place of animal companions or special mounts. The Nightmare and Unicorn are such creatures.


Example: Nightmare is +4 (Cohort) LA. That means that it can be the special mount of a Blackguard that is 4 levels higher than the base level at which they get a mount (Blackguard 9). Alternatively a Paladin 9 can have the Unicorn as a mount.

Note that I dont think this is 100% correct interpretation, just one that has worked in the past.
No, that's not at all how it works. The paladin's mount doesn't care even a little bit about the LA. The rules for determining what mounts are appropriate are on DMG page 204 and 205, as has been mentioned, and are based on CR.

The Cohort designation on the LA means that the creature can be chosen as a Cohort for the Leadership feat, using that LA plus its HD to determine the level it should count for.

[Slipperychicken]

Two horses - one for each foot.

It even leaves your hands free.

http://www.redstate.com/files/2012/10/Two-horses-one-ass.jpg

[Urpriest]

Certain creatures in the base MM have a Level Adjustment with the (Cohort) modifier. Those are usually creatures suited to being used in place of animal companions or special mounts. The Nightmare and Unicorn are such creatures.


Example: Nightmare is +4 (Cohort) LA. That means that it can be the special mount of a Blackguard that is 4 levels higher than the base level at which they get a mount (Blackguard 9). Alternatively a Paladin 9 can have the Unicorn as a mount.

Note that I dont think this is 100% correct interpretation, just one that has worked in the past.


No, that's not at all how it works. The paladin's mount doesn't care even a little bit about the LA. The rules for determining what mounts are appropriate are on DMG page 204 and 205, as has been mentioned, and are based on CR.

The Cohort designation on the LA means that the creature can be chosen as a Cohort for the Leadership feat, using that LA plus its HD to determine the level it should count for.

To echo Flickerdart, that interpretation has a lot of problems with it, because it doesn't take into account RHD. So for example, if Black Ethergaunts happened to be Cohort-only, you could get one as a companion at a cost of merely four levels of progression.

[Flickerdart]

Ah, black ethergaunts. Is there any LA/RHD-related houserule into the spokes of which they cannot throw a wrench?

[pwykersotz]

My level 1 Half-Minotaur Barbarian rides a Triceratops. It is awesome.