Multiclassing Generalist and Specialist Wizard? [3.5]

[SinsI]

Is it possible to advance as a Specialist Wizard after you've taken a few levels in a Generalist Wizard?

From both gameplay and roleplaying perspective it is a very logical choice: at start, the player/character doesn't know what he wants/needs or how to use what he has, so he doesn't limit his options, but as he advances, he might find a mentor that can teach him a specialization that emphasizes his strong points.

Any ideas on how to make it work?

[eggynack]

What you're looking for are the rules for retraining a class feature in the PHB II, page 192. You get to pick one thing to retrain on each level up, and this can explicitly be that.

Edit: Alternatively, you could pick up a prestige class that forces you to ban a school of magic. Incantatrix (PGtF, 61) is an example of this, and there may be others which I'm unaware of.

[Rebel7284]

Red Wizard in the DMG is another one. Both are SUPER powerful choices and fit the flavor perfectly.

[Karnith]

Knight of the Thorn (Dragonlance Campaign Setting, pp. 66) is a PrC with some pretty hefty requirements, both in terms of fluff and crunch, but it makes you into a Divination specialist. Nightmare Spinner (Complete Mage, p. 74) gives you extra spell slots for Illusion spells, much like being a Illusionist would do.

If retraining is off the table, many PrCs give abilities that could represent specialization, fluff-wise. For example, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil for Abjuration "specialists," Divine Oracle or Loremaster for Divination, Shadowcraft Mage for Illusion, Pale Master for Necromancy, etc.

Red Wizard in the DMG is another one. Both are SUPER powerful choices and fit the flavor perfectly.
Red Wizard requires you to be a specialist Wizard already, making it less helpful for a generalist.

[SinsI]

What you're looking for are the rules for retraining a class feature in the PHB II, page 192. You get to pick one thing to retrain on each level up, and this can explicitly be that.

Edit: Alternatively, you could pick up a prestige class that forces you to ban a school of magic. Incantatrix (PGtF, 61) is an example of this, and there may be others which I'm unaware of.

I still want the character to stay a generalist wizard of that level, so that wizard 2/focused specialist 5(Conjuration) counts as Conjurer 7 (or 8) for the purpose of Conjuration but only as a wizard(2) for the spells of the banned schools - with ability to add more generalist levels/learn new spells of those banned schools later on.


Knight of the Thorn (Dragonlance Campaign Setting, pp. 66) is a PrC with some pretty hefty requirements, both in terms of fluff and crunch, but it makes you into a Divination specialist. Nightmare Spinner (Complete Mage, p. 74) gives you extra spell slots for Illusion spells, much like being a Illusionist would do.

If retraining is off the table, many PrCs give abilities that could represent specialization, fluff-wise. For example, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil for Abjuration "specialists," Divine Oracle or Loremaster for Divination, Shadowcraft Mage for Illusion, Pale Master for Necromancy, etc.

Nightmare Spinner loses a spellcasting level, which is against the spirit of the build (the character trains in one area only - so at least in that area he shouldn't be worse than any generalist wizard of the same level).

As for the rest of the mentioned prestige classes - are there any of them that specifically advance 1 for 1 (or better) only the specialized school, losing advancement in banned/non-specialized schools?

[eggynack]

I still want the character to stay a generalist wizard of that level, so that wizard 2/focused specialist 5(Conjuration) counts as Conjurer 7 (or 8) for the purpose of Conjuration but only as a wizard(2) for the spells of the banned schools - with ability to add more generalist levels/learn new spells of those banned schools later on.

I don't think that's really a thing. I mean, if you pick up the MoF version of incantatrix instead of the PGtF version, then you can use spells all the spells you had pre-banning, but you can't really go back to generalist. You can also retrain back to generalist, but then you lose whatever specialist stuff you got from being a specialist. I'm pretty sure that a part-specialist is a non-object. You can go from one to the other, or the other direction, but there's not much in between.

[Karnith]

As for the rest of the mentioned prestige classes - are there any of them that specifically advance 1 for 1 (or better) only the specialized school, losing advancement in banned/non-specialized schools?
To the best of my knowledge, there are no official PrCs/classes/whatever that do that. There are things that boost your caster level for certain spell schools, but nothing that progresses actual casting (spells per day, spells known, etc.) for just one school.

Offhand, I think that the closest to that you're going to get from official sources is Nar Demonbinder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030502a&page=2), a Conjuration/summoning-themed PrC from Unapproachable East that offers its own casting progression separate from whatever casting you had beforehand.

[SinsI]

I don't think that's really a thing. I mean, if you pick up the MoF version of incantatrix instead of the PGtF version, then you can use spells all the spells you had pre-banning, but you can't really go back to generalist. You can also retrain back to generalist, but then you lose whatever specialist stuff you got from being a specialist. I'm pretty sure that a part-specialist is a non-object. You can go from one to the other, or the other direction, but there's not much in between.

What I don't like about Incantatrix is that it somehow affects your generalist levels, limiting the abilities you get from them.
This means that Wizard5/Inantantrix 5/ Wizard 5 is absolutely not the same as a Wizard 10/ Incantantrix 5 - which is stupid, as the only thing that differ them is the timing of their specialization.

[eggynack]

What I don't like about Incantatrix is that it somehow affects your generalist levels, limiting the abilities you get from them.
This means that Wizard5/Inantantrix 5/ Wizard 5 is absolutely not the same as a Wizard 10/ Incantantrix 5 - which is stupid, as the only thing that differ them is the timing of their specialization.
I think it makes sense, actually. If you take the levels late, you get more generalist spells, and if you take them early, you get more incantatrix power. It's a trade off. Your examples are looking at the character from the end, where the wizard 10/incantatrix 5 is clearly superior, but at other levels the pther version is likely superior. Timing means a lot in a lot of cases.

[Rebel7284]

Timing affects a lot of things... Rogue 1/Fighter 1 and Fighter 1/Rogue 1 have significantly different skills and HP even though the classes used are the same. The closest the system can offer is prestige classes with their own casting that starts past level 1. Nar Demonbinder has already been mentioned as it likely has a smaller list than whatever you used to qualify, but sublime chord is similar starting with 4th level spells.

[KillianHawkeye]

Sorry, but you can't multiclass two versions of the same class.