Wishing in Infernal?

[rmnimoc]

So my party is about to get our hands on a magical ring. It is a magical wishing ring that can only be used once per person and has enough charges for our party of five. My bard is the only one who knows the ring was made by a total jerk, and that the ring will take the most horrible literal interpretation of the wishes it can. Two levels ago the who party (sans paladin) abandoned me to die so they could get a bit more gold (I got better). I intend on giving the rest of the party "good ideas" for things to wish for, but I figured I'd stop here first and ask a couple of questions before our next session.

1: I remember reading somewhere that infernal as a language is very specific by nature, could I wish in infernal to keep the wish from going bad? (If Infernal is like that what book says so?)
2: What are some wishes that sound good on the surface, but can be interpreted in horrific ways? (For a CN Barbarian, a TN Druid, and a TN Rogue)

[Phelix-Mu]

1.) Any DM that has a device that intentionally perverts wishes is probably not going to accept "I wish very, very specifically for X" as a way to avoid the complications. This probably extends to speaking the wish in Infernal.

Yes, Infernal is terribly specific, but more because of the way in which is normally used by it's native speakers (devils). You can still unintentionally leave gaps in the phrasing of something in Infernal; in fact, it might be harder to avoid leaving gaps, because the language itself is so exacting.

2.) Wishing for an artifact or very rare item is usually a pretty good way to screw up. The classic perversion is "I wish for a staff of power," and the item gives you Mr. X's staff of power. Later, Mr. X shows up, and he's not very happy. Same thing works with wishing for gold or other items; the items appear, but only after disappearing from someone else' possession.

Really, this is all strongly down to what the DM wants to have happen.

[Gemini476]

2: What are some wishes that sound good on the surface, but can be interpreted in horrific ways? (For a CN Barbarian, a TN Druid, and a TN Rogue)

How much do you know about Faust? Or the second Aladdin movie, for something more recent?

For other things, a wish like "I wish to live forever" could be fulfilled by sending you to the creation of the universe and encasing you in carbonite until the end of said "forever". Or a wish for a mountain of gold could get you crushed by it.

Heck, the whole "be careful what you wish for" thing is so old that I bet Wikipedia even has a page on it!

Really, though, there's an important thing you need to know here: if the ring has the option to choose between one simple literal option that ends well for you, or one convoluted malevolent option that requires jumping through some mental hoops, then which one will it take?
It's really up to just figuring out what your GM is willing to let you get away with.

Or you could go for one of the safe options of Wish, I guess. Just check with your GM that they're still as safe as RAW says that they are.

[rmnimoc]

I'm really not at all that concerned over my wish (I'm perfectly capable of breaking WBL and getting anything I want if I wanted), I was just going to legalese a mundane wish for something simple and silly while taking serious precautions that it really only has two options (both aren't bad) so when I get the unfavorable option (a turkey sandwich instead of a chicken sandwich) the paladin realizes she should take her wish seriously and carefully without having to spell it out in a way the rest of the party notices. (IC the Paladin knows I hate turkey so she would then know the ring is subverting the wishes, and would rather not wish at all then end up with a malevolent wish.)
Like I said though, the ring was made by a jerk and given the option it will take the least favorable (the the user) interpretation possible.
Which is my I was looking around for some that really sound like good wishes, since any wish at all will get twisted.

Edit: The rogue likes archery, so I was thinking of convincing him to go for a quiver of arrows that never miss their target (that always target him).

[Phelix-Mu]

Your plan sounds quite good already. I'd advise something that is going to have a good result for others, as the paladin will be doubly sure to take notice if the option is between

a.) Something that is good for your character

b.) Something that is good for a bunch of commoners.

So, if the item twists it for the user, it ends up helping a bunch of commoners. Win-win. Triple win if you are trying to make friends with paladin, which is what it sounds like.

The exact wish is likely to have to be specific to your campaign, but I am thinking something along the lines of "give me the power to raise the people of [town x] out of poverty." If the ring favors you instead of the people, you get actual power. If it aims to screw you, you end up with maybe a pile of food or something.

You'd have to be much more cautious with the wording, of course, but that's my first idea there. Hope it helps.

[Jack_Simth]

The exact wish is likely to have to be specific to your campaign, but I am thinking something along the lines of "give me the power to raise the people of [town x] out of poverty." If the ring favors you instead of the people, you get actual power. If it aims to screw you, you end up with maybe a pile of food or something.Or perhaps turns you into a construct made out of gold pieces. Why yes, you do have the power to raise them out of poverty... you just have to die forever (constructs can't be raised, you see).

[Scow2]

Or perhaps turns you into a construct made out of gold pieces. Why yes, you do have the power to raise them out of poverty... you just have to die forever (constructs can't be raised, you see).Hyperinflation does not cure poverty. Increasing the amount of currency available without increasing the amount of goods to spend it on leaves everyone in the same boat they started in.

[Phelix-Mu]

Or perhaps turns you into a construct made out of gold pieces. Why yes, you do have the power to raise them out of poverty... you just have to die forever (constructs can't be raised, you see).

Well, if the wish-item is so malicious as to outright kill anyone that makes a wish, then best not make a wish, since a creative DM can pretty much read any benefit they want out of the death of a specific character.

Wish for money: You're dead. Now you never need to pay taxes, which is like getting money.

Wish for an item: You're dead. Some friend lays said item in your casket at your funeral.

Wish for a chicken sandwich: You get a chicken sandwich, and the undying ire of Orcus, who is locked in an endless battle with the Chicken God over which Commoner Flaw is most stupidly unhinged. Short story is, you're dead.

It will be very hard to outfox a determined DM in this arena; you control your character's wording, the DM controls every other aspect of the multiverse. The only reason to use such a device would be knowing that there are parameters for the degree of wish-perversion or some kind of preference behind the creator's motive for designing it (e.g., likes to watch people suffer, so it probably isn't going to outright kill you).

But, in keeping with Jack_Simth's remark, I'd wager the wisdom here lies with not using the item. That doesn't serve the OP's purpose, though, so YMMV.

[Mando Knight]

1.) Any DM that has a device that intentionally perverts wishes is probably not going to accept "I wish very, very specifically for X" as a way to avoid the complications. This probably extends to speaking the wish in Infernal.

Yes, Infernal is terribly specific, but more because of the way in which is normally used by it's native speakers (devils). You can still unintentionally leave gaps in the phrasing of something in Infernal; in fact, it might be harder to avoid leaving gaps, because the language itself is so exacting.

See, Infernal is a language constructed so that exacting specifics leave gaping loopholes to be exploited only by the devils. Anyone else trying to do so tends to forget little participles and such that when left out of the sentence mean "and the mortals involved in the deal surrender all rights to their souls to the devil that they are making a pact with."

[Drachasor]

Hyperinflation does not cure poverty. Increasing the amount of currency available without increasing the amount of goods to spend it on leaves everyone in the same boat they started in.

Assuming the new money is distributed exactly the same as the old money. If not, then it can make things worse or better. For instance, if the economy is underemploying the workforce, extra money could be used to provide jobs and get the economy going again (since more people will then be spending money, businesses will start to higher again to meet increased demand, etc, etc).

Anyhow, on topic, if your wish has a high risk of getting perverted...I'd wish for something bad to happen to an enemy. However horrible that gets messed up, it is very unlikely to make the enemy better off. It's also a lot less likely to result in something bad happening to you.

[Phelix-Mu]

I think it wise to assume that, if the DM is out to get you, you get got. If you press the "unexpected bad things happen" button, then I think we can foresee the likely outcome. If the DM seems amenable to allowing the OP's privileged knowledge about the nature of the item to mitigate the threat posed by making a wish, then it might be worth considering.

But if you can't rate the DM's trollface according to the Systeme Internationale scale of trollfaces, or if no trollface is apparent, then you'd best not do that.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, if the wish-item is so malicious as to outright kill anyone that makes a wish, then best not make a wish, since a creative DM can pretty much read any benefit they want out of the death of a specific character.Oh, it doesn't outright kill you. It turns you into a sentient gold golem (unrepairable). If you choose to drop dead, you turn into a big pile of gold coins, of such a size as to be distributable to the townsfolk in such a way that all of them come to the conclusion that they are no longer stricken by poverty. It is, however, your choice to do so (or not).

[rmnimoc]

I'm going for a simple wish mostly because both myself and my character are smart and wise enough to word the wish in such a way that it ends up the way I want despite trying to do the opposite (getting a turkey sandwich instead of a chicken sandwich).

Also if I wanted to wish for money I'd just go with something like:
"I wish that I shall obtain; now and at all times hence; legally and without harm to others or myself, all such material possesions as I, being of sound mind, desire, and that recipt of same should occur within twenty-four earth hours (one day) of the desire becoming known to me."

I'm still looking for "good ideas for wishes" to give my party.

[Thanatosia]

"I wish that I shall obtain; now and at all times hence; legally and without harm to others or myself, all such material possesions as I, being of sound mind, desire, and that recipt of same should occur within twenty-four earth hours (one day) of the desire becoming known to me."
Your brain is instantly converted into a sonic pulse ('of sound mind') that bursts through your skull, killing you instantly, and doing 400d6 sonic damage to the person you like most (no save, the damage is unrelated to the granting of your material desires, so is irrelivent to the no harm clause of your wish). Whatever material desires the mindless pulse of sonic energy your brain has become are forever fulfilled.

No matter how careful you are, all wishes can be monkey-pawed.

Futhermore, If I was playing the cursed item grating the wish, i'd be a little lenient on punishing the wishes of the other party members.... their suffering is just fleeting amusement. By knowingly trying to make a wish knowing it's cursed, you're issuing a challenge. Now egos are involved, and anything resembling kid's gloves are taken off. It's not just amusing itself now, now it's making an example of you.

With Cursed Wishes, the Wargames tagline is the way to go... the only winning move is not to play.

[avr]

Warning: do not follow this link if you have anything urgent to do in the next hour.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor

[Sugarbear007]

If you're trying for a fair and impartial medium between A) a thoughtfully worded wish giving what you intend or B) the ring acts like the old Wishmaster movie series, why not leave it to a dice roll like everything else.

Maybe something like, an appropriate knowledge check with the DC being based on how potent the item or effect wished for (that would be really subjective of course).

You could also do something like a INT check for wording something very specifically or a WIS check to figure out how the ring itself would interpret your wish.

Then after you've figured out what you'd actually be rolling do the roll and depending on how the result plays out, make the effect. Like if its missed by one or two, the sword you wanted with a chainsaw blade is unbalanced and hard to swing so you get a negative on your attack roll. If its missed by 5 or so progress it into further suckage appropriately.

You could also add a critical success or fail even though you don't usually get those with skill rolls.

natural 20 character gets that harem he wished for and all the girls are really hot.

natural 1 the character gets a harem but their all zombies and he's eaten.