how to make the PC reallly hate someone

[galan]

..who actually likes them?

by accident, the PCs helped a drow wizard to kill his masters and take control of the wizard tower when they lit the whole place on fire. He offered to help them get out of the drow city, and they agreed- and even took a quest from him, after they.. hinted they want one. Now, i want them to hate him as much as possible *as he helps them*. and i'm not sure how. I want him to be as helpful as possible by doing evil things ("here, take this magical weapon. it sends everyone killed by it to hell, where they become demons"), but i'm short of ideas.

p.s. i have the feeling my post is a bit rude, and i'm not 100% sure why. is it fine?

[BWR]

The post is fine.
Since you are a member of these forums, just look at how Tarquin acts towards Elan when they first meet. Use that. If the PCs are good and the drow is evil, it shouldn't be too hard to have him casually abuse slaves in front of them. Perhaps he sends a war party to the surface and happens to kill a PC's family and not undertsand why she's upset. "The warband didn't touch you did they? No? then what are you complaining about?" [in an honsetly puzzled voice].
Give the PCs rewards of evil items, or at least dodgy ones, like life-drinker weapons.

Have them be casually betrayed or abandoned when they're relying on him. He may like the PCs but that's not the same as sticking his neck out for them or keeping them safe if there's something to be gained by betraying them..

[pasko77]

..who actually likes them?

by accident, the PCs helped a drow wizard to kill his masters and take control of the wizard tower when they lit the whole place on fire. He offered to help them get out of the drow city, and they agreed- and even took a quest from him, after they.. hinted they want one. Now, i want them to hate him as much as possible *as he helps them*. and i'm not sure how. I want him to be as helpful as possible by doing evil things ("here, take this magical weapon. it sends everyone killed by it to hell, where they become demons"), but i'm short of ideas.

p.s. i have the feeling my post is a bit rude, and i'm not 100% sure why. is it fine?

i once had a BBEG like this. The guy hired the PCs, treated them kindly, gave them huge rewards, and was the perfect employer. His missions started by being innocent or morally gray, and went slowly downhill, till the players understood that he actually was a villain and needed to be put down.

You can try this approach, if you like it.

ps: your post is fine, i cannot perceive any rudeness.

[BeerMug Paladin]

I plan to make an important NPC in a campaign I'm going to run basically based on a certain, aggravating personality type.

He's going to hire them, and tell them the absolute minimum about what he wants them to do for him, and tell them outright they're not important enough to know what's going on. If they try to get more information, he's going to tell them that they're not smart enough to understand it, anyway. He'll tell them that they've got to work their way up from the bottom in order to earn his respect, and asking pointless questions is a good way to lose it. And possibly also describe how most people are worthless and don't deserve respect because they've not accomplished anything in life.

The kicker? He's a rich-kid, just out of many years in a private training school whose parents were very famous adventurers, and he's got all his money (and secret knowledge and connections) thanks to his parents (anyone who passes a low-ish knowledge roll can know who he is by name). He's going to be arrogant and condescending and not have done anything to earn the power he happily abuses.

I plan to make the party hate this guy. I think it'll work too.

A good thing to keep in mind, is think about what ticks off your players' characters. Hypocrisy is usually a pretty good go-to for making players hate a character, but to really make them hate someone, it might take some trial and error.

Acting condescending, dismissive and petty is certainly a good start, though.

Your drow wizard, for instance, could not want to explain a plot point by saying that the party is too stupid to understand it. If they press him on it, have the plot point be relatively simple. Little things like that can add up to frustration over time.

The best part is, approaching jerk-npcs in this way is going to annoy just about any pc, regardless of alignment. Of course, if you're too effective at making him insufferable, your players may try to attack him, so keep that in mind when you start doing this.

[veti]

Killstealing. Not (necessarily) literally, but - whatever it is the players really care about - that's where to hit them.

Presumably the players have some kind of business in the vicinity, something they're supposed to be getting on with?

Have the NPC do something - quite casually, and ideally without even mentioning it to the players - that makes their original mission completely futile. By which I mean simultaneously (a) impossible to complete, (b) obsolete, and (c) unprofitable.

For instance, if they're meant to be freeing slaves, this dude comes up with a way of irreversibly mass-brainwashing all slaves so that they no longer want to be free.

Or if they're just there for the loot, then this character does something that makes all the loot either unavailable or useless to the players. Back in 1e/2e, most drow items would start to decay and quickly fall apart when exposed to daylight. That was somehow "fixed" when 3e was published, but your mage might (inadvertently) reverse that process.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Insult the players and npcs that the players like constantly. Have the sorcerer sneer at the party wizard and say, "Some of us don't need to prepare spell slots." Have the spy call the rogue with a speech impediment a brain-damaged troglodyte. Make the woman who sent the players on a fetch quest an unlikeable narcissist who treats the pcs like she treats her servants and waiters--like garbage.

[Benthesquid]

You could have him be dedicated to helping the party even in cases where they don't need, or want help. Have him respond to every perceived slight towards the party with ludicrously over the top violence*.

Perhaps a handsome stable boy smiles at the Rogue. The Drow executes him, burns the stables to the ground, and salts the earth, on the basis that the stableboy was not showing proper deference to his betters.

Perhaps the Wizard haggles with a shopkeeper over the price of some scrolls. The Drow steals the scrolls, stabs the shopkeeper, poisons the shopkeeper's wife, arranges for the newly orphaned children to be split up and sent to a series of very unpleasant orphanages, and then shaves the shopkeeper's pet cat. He then calmly suggests that, by his calculations, this should result in at least a thirteen percent discount on all future purchases, one word of what happened gets out.

Perhaps the Fighter expresses annoyance with a quest giver's arrogant attitude. The Drow knocks out the quest giver, and nails a jester's cap to his head.

*Fair warning, this may in fact make your party love him.

[Sith_Happens]

I plan to make an important NPC in a campaign I'm going to run basically based on a certain, aggravating personality type.

Say no further.

http://imgdonkey.com/big/czJ6ZzFxYw/that-is-the-evilest-thing-i-can-imagine-imgur.gif

[SassyQuatch]

Drow: "I polished your armor! It didn't go how I planned." :smallfrown:
Armor: "When I finish eating this elf baby your soul is next!" :smallfurious:
Drow: "I'd hand you your sword, sir, but I polished that too. I don't know how it dissolved." :smallfrown:

The bumbling genius! A true classic. Plus having to buy new equipment, that'll make them give in to their hate.

[genmoose]

It's been a while since I've been a DM, but here's how I would take it.

If you really want your PC's to hate this guy, and not just as casual 'I hate that guy' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyC-44SD2yQ), but a real burning, passionate hate, then it may take a while.

I would suggest lifting a bit from The Devil's Advocate, with your evil drow taking the part of Al Pacino's devil. If you haven't seen the movie (worth dealing with Keanu just to see Charlize), the rub at the end is that all the evil that befell the hero wasn't because of the devil but actually in spite of him trying (but failing) to help the hero. It was the pride of the hero (manipulated by the devil) that caused all the problems.

So let's get back to your drow. Since it seems like your party wants to work with him despite his probable evil nature, run with that. Have him do them favors or provide assisting items but try to rig it to it's the PC's that are asking (or even demanding) the help. The drow warns them against the ill effects, but they ignore him. Then have that help come back to bite them in the ass.

Example 1:
Party: Hey evil drow guy, Bob's been poisoned. He's probably going to die. Can you help us?
Drow: Sure I can but you probably just want to go to the local temple. They normally sell such healing services for a reasonable fee.
Party: We tried that already. It's some exotic poison that they can't cure.
Drow: OK I can cure him, but it will carry a heavy price. Are you sure you want to do this? Maybe it's best just to let Bob go. People die all the time after all.
Party: No we want to cure Bob. But what is the price?
Drow: To save one life, another must die. This potion will save Bob, but when he drinks it another person will painfully and horribly die.
Party: I don't know about this. Can we pick who dies?
Drow: Yes you can. You put a hair from the new victim in the potion to activate it. It doesn't look like you have much time though. Fortunately I have an option. This here hair [raises single strand from an envelope], is from a murderer. And not just any murderer, but someone who killed an innocent child.
Party: That works put it in.
Drow: Are you sure? Once this is done there is no going back. [hands hair to party leader]
Party: [watches Bob start to choke and foam at the mouth] I'm sure. [drops hair in potion. Bob drinks it and is instantly cured.]

Later on, perhaps in a grand reveal, the party finds out that the 'murderer' was actually the party leader's kid sister (or some other highly valued person). It turns out that the sister was actually a twin and the other twin had died in childbirth because the sister had complications. You can even imply that perhaps the drow was the source of Bob's poison in the first place.


Example 2:
Party: Hey evil drow guy, we need to kill the big bad evil thing that is terrorizing the area this season. Do you have a weapon we can use against it?
Drow: I do. It is a powerful sword/spear/axe/wand/etc. It is strong enough in it's own right, but in dire situations it can draw upon your inner strength to become incredibly powerful [+5 or some other crazy abilities].
Party: Great hand it over.
Drow: I must warn you. Use it's great power only in situations of life or death. Do not waste it on trivial matters.
Party: Yea yea old man we've got it.

The catch is that each 'super use' will take a year's life from the hero wielding it. However it won't be obvious at first. Initially the hero will suffer 1d4 temporary damage to his primary stat (strength for fighters, etc) that will occur after the fight and last for about an hour before it is restored on its own. It should be enough to 'feel' a little painful to the heroes but not enough to turn away from the crazy power the weapon brings. The aging will occur later (perhaps during a climatic reveal with the drow) when all the years spent are sucked out of the hero in front of everyone's eyes.


I could list a lot more but the idea is that the drow would enable the PC's to unknowingly do unspeakable horrors to themselves, their families or the community, by their own hand. Maybe they are given a suit of armor that absorbs damage but transfers those wounds to children of the local village. Perhaps they end up as wanted outlaws or accidental heroes to a famously evil cause.

In the end, the PC's should be seriously damaged; emotionally, financially, spiritually, etc. But each wound should be from something that the PC's did, and were cautioned by the drow to avoid, but their own fatal flaws (greed, pride, vanity, etc) caused the evil to blossom. However the drow was the one pulling the strings and making everything happen. You want them to hate the drow because he caused the evil within themselves to come out.

[Sith_Happens]

[Snip]

So basically, take some pointers from this guy:

http://www.absoluteanime.com/mahou_shoujo_madoka_magica/kyubey.jpg

[sleepyphoenixx]

Drow: "I polished your armor! It didn't go how I planned." :smallfrown:
Armor: "When I finish eating this elf baby your soul is next!" :smallfurious:
Drow: "I'd hand you your sword, sir, but I polished that too. I don't know how it dissolved." :smallfrown:

The bumbling genius! A true classic. Plus having to buy new equipment, that'll make them give in to their hate.

This (or a variation). Nothing makes players hate faster than someone taking/destroying their loot.

[galan]

wow, thanks for all the help!

[geeky_monkey]

Make him solve problems in the worst possible way. For example – there’s a famine and local peasants are starving. The players go to the Drow to help and he does.

By killing 50% of the peasants so there’s more food to go around.

And he can’t understand why the players are annoyed with his solution – after all no-one is starving now and humans breed so quickly there will be plenty more to replace the ones he killed in a mere decade or so.

[Telonius]

Jealousy is a great one. The PCs help the Drow solve a problem, and the peasants within the gaming world assign all of the credit to the Drow. Especially if the PCs are the ones doing most of the work, this can really annoy people.

Alternately, take the opposite side. "I feel horrible for taking all of the credit. So it's possible that I may have embellished a few stories that would make my fellow Drow give you the respect you deserve." Word gets up to the surface kingdoms of their supposed acts of depravity, and they gain unwanted attention wherever they go.

[ReaderAt2046]

I plan to make an important NPC in a campaign I'm going to run basically based on a certain, aggravating personality type.

Actually, I think that might be overkill. The only reason the original players tolerated this guy (rather than bashing his head or strangling him) was that they went to school in what seems to have been a sub-district of Hell, so he wasn't that much worse than the surroundings. Exposing normal human beings to even a diluted for of Him will result in them attacking him, even if it is suicidal, or at the very least committing suicide in order to not have to deal with that level of awful any more.

[BeerMug Paladin]

Actually, I think that might be overkill. The only reason the original players tolerated this guy (rather than bashing his head or strangling him) was that they went to school in what seems to have been a sub-district of Hell, so he wasn't that much worse than the surroundings. Exposing normal human beings to even a diluted for of Him will result in them attacking him, even if it is suicidal, or at the very least committing suicide in order to not have to deal with that level of awful any more.
One of the players is going to play as a passivist.

Let's just say I like to create character-specific challenges.

[ReaderAt2046]

One of the players is going to play as a passivist.

Let's just say I like to create character-specific challenges.

Wow, you must really hate pacifism.

[Segev]

The "help that is distinctly evil" is a good way to start. I wouldn't be heavy-handed about it, and I wouldn't have the drow be grotesquely blind to how the party feels about things. That way lies comedy, not hateful tragedy.

He's not a puppy that doesn't know better than to wet on the carpet in his excitement that his master is home, nor is he a poorly-trained dog which snaps at innocent gestures of friendship he mistakes for "getting too close" to his master.

He's an intelligent, ruthless drow wizard. He is truly grateful to this party despite knowing they are of a differing alignment. He will at the least act, on the surface, like he is restraining his aid to them to the morally...acceptable, if not the most up-and-up. Perhaps he'll openly be the "poisonous friend" who offs a threat to them that was evil enough to be an acceptable target but was protected by the law (so the LG and even LN player characters would object to any in the party taking him out).

He'll be a good shoulder to cry on, if they trust him enough to share their woes, and he'll turn his own spy network on his friends not out of a desire to invade their privacy, but out of a will to know how he can help them in more subtle ways.

Accidents befall rivals who don't deserve it. He either has or arranges for there to be items available in places where they should have already been sold out; the PCs need not know that he injured, delayed, or threatened those who'd have gotten it first so the party is able to get there in time. (And, if he CAN do it without resorting to methods to which his friends would object, he will; he might swoop in to buy up one of them before they run out, and have it for them when they come to see him. If it would have saved an innocent's life or something, that's not his concern.)

Make him unable to help himself. Make him friendly. Allow the party to love him, if they like. Only after they have a long list of achievements, honors, and serendipitous rewards do you reveal that those others who would have gotten those rewards and honors first suffered their missteps, accidents, and outright tragedies which prevented them from being able to earn said rewards at the hand of the drow.

When they confront him, if they don't already hate him, have him be contrite. Let him be a little arrogant at first, a little stung at their ingratitude, but let him also buckle to their scolding. He won't submit to their laws or punishment, of course, but he recognizes that what he did hurt them, and is sorry.

That doesn't mean he'll stop. Whether out of perverse desire to make them pay for their ingratitude, or out of even more twisted inability to cease being grateful and demonstrating it, he will never, ever stop paving their way to glory on the corpses of rivals and enemies.

Perhaps, if this isn't enough, he'll screw up and harm a loved one of theirs. Or will accidentally destroy what he was trying to "gift" them, something they wanted dearly. He's not perfect. He can make mistakes.

In the end, they will hate him, if they remain good and noble, for the awful things he does "for them." And he will accept that, knowing that this, too, is part of showing his gratitude. These things MUST be done for them, and if letting them hate him for doing it keeps their hands clean, that is his gift to them.

[Sith_Happens]

One of the players is going to play as a passivist.

Let's just say I like to create character-specific challenges.

In what way does a maddeningly insufferable NPC make it harder to passivate things?:smalltongue:

[TuggyNE]

In what way does a maddeningly insufferable NPC make it harder to passivate things?:smalltongue:

Because you can't just punch their smug face as you would no doubt otherwise wish to do.

[Gavran]

I'm reasonably certain we're making typo/chemistry jokes.

[ReaderAt2046]

In what way does a maddeningly insufferable NPC make it harder to passivate things?:smalltongue:

Because having to deal with this character is an order of magnitude more insufferable than having your genitals pulled out though your esophagus. This is about a tenth of a step short of the GM actually mind-controlling the pacifist PC and forcing him to kill somebody.

[Drachasor]

Creepy infatuation.

[Axiomatic]

The next time they do something that benefits him, he goes all "Wow! Amazing! Thanks, guys! I'll make you a gift of my favorite slave's first child for this!"

Some time later, they are presented with an infant boy.

[Violetsaber]

I'm not sure if this will truly apply to your Drow situation, but I'm building an extended family designed purely to aggravate the party. On the one hand, the family is one of the most economically and politically powerful in two kingdoms. On the other hand they're selfish, egotistical, amoral, and downright irritating.

The patriarch of the local hand of the family looks something like Uwe Boll. He's a narcissistic, dishonest, scheming man who makes money in many ways besides his front of honest lumber. He has an annoying accent, a face that begs to be hit, bizarrely believes himself a formidable fighter... and is also the easiest way for my players to begin questing and gaining the notice of more desirable people in power. So they're effectively forced to deal with an annoying dipsmack who is slowly but surely inducting them into his criminal dealings.

His wife looks something like Nurse Ratched. While her husband is SUPPOSED to be handling the diplomatic duties of an ambassador, his wife is the one who takes up the slack while he thinks up moneymaking schemes. She is quite good at getting her way, using blackmail, threats, and leverage to get whatever her "King" desires. Besides being one of the most nails-on-chalkboard aggravating personalities in the Kingdom, she also holds horrible grudges. This especially horrified my party's Bard when she took personally his refusal to cave to her seductions!

So in other words we have two individuals who are constantly on the lookout for fresh meat, making them exactly the kind of people new adventurers will fall in with. HOWEVER, they're also immoral, selfish, and manipulative, slowly twisting my party into their criminal mold!

The party can't kill them because they'd be wanted criminals in two Kingdoms. The party can run, but the family runs country-wide enterprises both legitimate and illegitimate. The party can refuse to do their bidding, but that will mean scuttling all the progress they've made in this kingdom's social and economic system.

Obviously there are rival families, other questgivers, and other options. But are my players willing to go through the effort? How long before the aggravation of working with this family outweighs the convenience of regular questing hooks? Only time will tell. :smallbiggrin:

[Sith_Happens]

Because having to deal with this character is an order of magnitude more insufferable than having your genitals pulled out though your esophagus. This is about a tenth of a step short of the GM actually mind-controlling the pacifist PC and forcing him to kill somebody.

Yes, but what does any of that have to do with coating materials with a thin outer layer of corrosion (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passivation_(chemistry))?

...Spelling mistakes aside, I should point out that antagonizing a pacifist is a much riskier proposition than it appears:

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/answers/2444000/2444977_1329510444368.37res_400_300.jpg

[TuggyNE]

Yes, but what does any of that have to do with coating materials with a thin outer layer of corrosion (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passivation_(chemistry))?

The original was "passivist", which would mean, not someone who passivates things, but someone who is deliberately passive (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/passivist).