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View Full Version : Building an Arcane Rogue/Alternative Assassin?



Rossebay
2013-12-28, 05:57 PM
I really like the flavor of assassins in DMG. Light magic used for defense and stealth--baller!

However, I hate the assassin class. It's just bad, and I know it.

So I thought, "Well, I like the idea of Arcane Trickster, too." But even that feels like it'd just end poorly, what with low BAB and all. Now I know Beguiler might be better than Wizard for stealthy gish types, so that might be what I'm doing here... But how do I make a better assassin?

How do I avoid losing out on Sneak Attack progression and Evasion and Uncanny Dodge if I'm trying to get decent spellcasting?

Osiris
2013-12-28, 06:00 PM
Just be a standard rogue with whatever for PrC's. Invest highly in bumping up UMD. Wands go up to 4th level spells.

Otherwise, go homebrew. If nobody else can help, make a post in the homebrew section of this forum.

Rossebay
2013-12-28, 06:02 PM
I'd rather get spellcasting than just use items. Sure, UMD works fine, but I much prefer being able to cast the spells myself.

Pluto!
2013-12-28, 06:12 PM
Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Whatever 5 with one of the Extra Spells going to Hunter's Eye is a pretty stock way to get a decent attack bonus and a whole lot of sneak attack.

BA lags slightly, but between Knowledge Devotion, spells like Wraithstrike or Glitterdust and whatever you want to cram into those last 5 levels, it does a good job switching between blender and toolbox.

EDIT:
Maybe worth noting that Evasion/Uncanny Dodge are a feat apiece via Shape Soulmeld: Impulse Boots and Open Chakra.

Thrawn183
2013-12-28, 06:20 PM
Have you considered a Hexblade, especially with the designer suggested fixes?

Rossebay
2013-12-28, 06:25 PM
Have you considered a Hexblade, especially with the designer suggested fixes?

No. Does it grant them sneak attack or something? :D

Norin
2013-12-28, 06:53 PM
May I suggest this handbook on Sneak Attacking Spellcasters (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240) as a place to start your build?

It's got some neat suggestions.

Donox
2013-12-28, 07:08 PM
Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Whatever 5 with one of the Extra Spells going to Hunter's Eye is a pretty stock way to get a decent attack bonus and a whole lot of sneak attack.

BA lags slightly, but between Knowledge Devotion, spells like Wraithstrike or Glitterdust and whatever you want to cram into those last 5 levels, it does a good job switching between blender and toolbox.

EDIT:
Maybe worth noting that Evasion/Uncanny Dodge are a feat apiece via Shape Soulmeld: Impulse Boots and Open Chakra.

Its probably worth going wizard 5 and grabbing spontaneous divination. Also spellthief with master spellthief does crazy things to your caster level.

Telonius
2013-12-28, 07:19 PM
The Craven feat will probably be of interest. If low BAB is an issue, the Skillful enchantment (+2) from CArc will take you up to 3/4 BAB.

Piggy Knowles
2013-12-28, 08:23 PM
At higher levels:

Simple Wizard 3/Master Specialist 2/Ruathar 3/Wizard +2/Unseen Seer 10

Simple Wizard variant gives you fighter feats instead of metamagic feats. Ruathar gives you the stealth skills you'll need to stay stealthy, and to eventually enter Unseen Seer. The timing of levels is so that you can use your bonus feat to nab Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance) at level 10, before you take your first level of Unseen Seer, so that you have sneak attack to be advanced by the class.

The end result is twenty straight levels of wizard casting plus decent skills and sneak attack.

Thrawn183
2013-12-28, 08:27 PM
No. Does it grant them sneak attack or something? :D

Well, including the Hexblade fix posted by Mike Mearls (WotC designer) that can be found here: http://irongamersguild.wikidot.com/forum/t-248314, the Hexblade is interesting:

Full BAB
D10 HD
Cha to saves vs Spells/spell-like-abilities
Mettle
Limited Spellcasting
Hexblade Curse
Aura of Unluck

Replacing your familiar with the Dark Familiar alternate ability and then taking Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar rounds our your character. I should mention familiars have half your HP, which with a Hexblade is considerable.

Basically, Hexblades have the spells to walk up to someone without being seen, give them -10 to everything and then either stab them through the heart or simply turn them into a toad (baleful polymorph). Lots of fun.