Two Weapon Fighting options... [3.5]

[ojayaba]

I'm building a two weapon fighter and I'm not really sure what to use for weapons at this point. the build will be pouncing very often so full attacks will be happening.
I had thought to use lightning mace weapon style feat as a way to get extra attacks since I am going to be Sneak Attacking things as much as possible as well.

Any thoughts or ideas here would be awesome!
If you have any need of further information feel free to post that as well.

[Valwyn]

If you're going for sneak attack, get Penetrating Strike from Dungeonscape so you can deal half SA damage to undead and the like.

For weapons, I'd say go for maces if you want but get some other light weapons that deal piercing and slashing damage, just in case. Daggers are piercing/slashing weapons, so they're worth considering.

[ojayaba]

As said in OP the light maces where only because of the lightning mace feat. other options included but not limited to short sword, dagger, light hammer, etc...

as for penetrating strike, thank you. Never heard of the ability before!

[gorfnab]

What is your build (classes, feats, etc...)? What books do you have access to?

[ojayaba]

What is your build (classes, feats, etc...)? What books do you have access to?

Final build has been
Swashbuckler 3
rogue 5
Telflamar Shadowlord 6
Shadowdancer 15
ECL 30, 29 levels

as for feats i have about 5-6 free feats as i haven't confirmed a fighting style yet so left them open. twf shouldn't take more then 4-5 as I wont have 16+bab

feats
blind fight
dodge
mobility
weapon finesse
spring attack
Daring outlaw

[Devronq]

As for weapon choice there is a I believe its a +1 ability that lets a weapon count as any type of weapon so you can use lightning maces with any weapon as its much better with a high critical weapons like a rapier. I'm sure someone with tell you better what I mean :p

[Grod_The_Giant]

As for weapon choice there is a I believe its a +1 ability that lets a weapon count as any type of weapon so you can use lightning maces with any weapon as its much better with a high critical weapons like a rapier. I'm sure someone with tell you better what I mean :p
The ability is Aptitude, from Tome of Battle. The combo is to use Aptitude Kukri, combined with crit range-expanding abilities (Keen weapons, Improved Critical, Disciple of Dispater, whatever) and Lightning Mace.

[ojayaba]

oh I'm well aware of Aptitude and hate it. plus it's banned for use with lightning maces for obvious reasons. DoD is a class i have no plans of using with this build as I already have my classes picked and done. just trying to fluff out the character with weapons and style.

[gorfnab]

Feat: Craven (CoR) would be a nice damage boost to your build. Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt, Martial Stance: Assassins Stance, and Shadowblade (ToB) would make nice additions as well if you're planning on short swords or daggers for your main weapons.

[ojayaba]

Craven and telling blow are both feats that i want to take as they both have a pretty big punch to add. more curious as to other feats i might take that are a bit more weapon specific. such as 2wf vs 1hf vs 2hf...

[Xervous]

Anvil of thunder forces the enemy to save against 1 round of daze (DC =10 + 1/2 character level + STR mod) if you hit with an axe and a hammer. Given how high strength can get, and the fact that dazing is very hard to gain immunity to, this can be quite nasty. Though it does eat up a bunch of feats.
Still, save or daze is nasty.


The other feats, aside from lightning mace, are mostly lackluster. Though Vae School gives a free trip attempt against a flat footed target if you hit them with a spiked chain. Given how high level you are, you might not have the resources to do well in the tripping game.


Overall, power attack will net you a good amount of damage if you can afford the to hit penalty.

Given that you only have 4d6 of sneak attack which amounts to an average of 14 damage, two handed power attacking may have nicer returns considering you don't have to invest as many feats and the to hit bonus should be higher. Alternatively, you could aim for the best of both worlds and use a spiked chain for THF and TWF at your leisure not to mention the tripping option and the reach.

[MeiLeTeng]

High sword Low Ax from Complete Warrior is another option to look into, if you use sword and ax and hit with both you get a free trip attempt.

[Xervous]

In my eyes high sword low axe is a poor choice compared to the spiked chain. Sure you end up spending the same amount of feats for both, but when it comes down to many things that matter, the spiked chain is just nicer to have.

Sword and axe is limited to adjacent targets (when you're medium), spiked chain can have reach if you need it.

Sword and axe will likely be stuck using a 1d8 mainhand weapon and a 1d6 secondary while the spiked chain is 2d4 (this isn't much of a difference, but size increases will expand this numeric advantage).

Outside of the feat, you can't trip with a sword or an axe. The spiked chain of course can. If you are looking to trip, you should probably use a tripping weapon.

The feat Vae school gives you 1/round trip when you hit when using a spiked chain with a few other minor limitations. 1 trip attempt is all you need really.

[MeiLeTeng]

FWIW I agree with you about Spiked Chain being a superior option for tripping, isn't OP pretty dead set on TWFing though? Or did I miss a post somewhere? (I swear I'm not being snarky, I'm just confused.)

[Xervous]

well double weapon fighting is pretty much TWF outside of one or two feats...

[MeiLeTeng]

Yeah, but Spiked Chains aren't double weapons, unless it's in Errata or something.

[Gadora]

And even if it were a double weapon, it looks like ojabaya's running off of Weapon Finesse, which is one of those feats where it matters.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Savage Species has the Chain Lash. It's usable as a double or twohanded weapon, has reach, is finessable, a trip weapon and has a bonus to disarm.
It only does 1d6 damage but it's bludgeoning so you can use (Greater) Mighty Wallop on it.

There's also the Kusari-Gama (DMG 145) which is basically a one-handed spiked chain. It has reach even when used with TWF but is otherwise inferior to the chain lash. It's also core, which may matter depending on your DM.

[ojayaba]

Sorry for the slow answers, Spiked chain from what i can see is a 2 handed weapon. I've looked in to this and from what i can see attack wise it is more optimal for me to go two weapon fighting the two handed fighting. I can however use weapon finesse with the spiked chain so that is still an option.

Chain lash is a double weapon with reach and can use weapon finesse as well so that is most definitely an option! only difference is this option requires an extra feat since it is exotic.

Anvil of thunder looks like it could be a blast of fun but has to many feats that are dead to me in this build. a lot of those feats could be very useful but with this particular build i don't think it would work as well as it should.

I think I might end up trying to go Crit Fishing with kukri's and telling blow that way even if I can't get teh SA trigger(some how) I can still get the telling blow trigger for the same/similar damage.

Still open to other idea's as I know I haven't thought of or heard everything.

[Darrin]

Still open to other idea's as I know I haven't thought of or heard everything.

TWF OffHandbook. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15034585)

I'm not sure how many feats you have to devote towards your weapons, but if you don't want to go down the EWP route, stick with dual shortswords. Simple, gets the job done.

[ojayaba]

TWF OffHandbook. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15034585)

I'm not sure how many feats you have to devote towards your weapons, but if you don't want to go down the EWP route, stick with dual shortswords. Simple, gets the job done.

Currently have not a single feat dedicated to weapons as i wanted to get ideas thoughts and suggestions first. I do how ever have about 5-6 free feats slots that i was holding back for combat feats since most of the rest is pre reqs, fluff or what ever.

[Andezzar]

If you're going for sneak attack, get Penetrating Strike from Dungeonscape so you can deal half SA damage to undead and the like.Don't. Take the Lightbringer Penetrating Strike from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. Only that ACF explicitly gives you sneak attack damage against immune creatures. The other ACf just gives you some kind of extra damage, which means anything that runs on Sneak Attack damage won't work.


Chain lash is a double weapon with reach and can use weapon finesse as well so that is most definitely an option! only difference is this option requires an extra feat since it is exotic.The Spiked Chain is just as exotic as the Chain Lash.

[ojayaba]

Expedition to castle ravenloft? as long as i've been playing I don't think I've ever read that one...

[Dr. Azkur]

Pick Telling Blow and Craven and start using two kukris with Improved Critical. Pick TWF and don't go further. Look for ways to get extra attacks and you're golden. My suggestion: Dip Warblade 1 at around lvl 9 and pick your three maneuvers from the Tiger Claw list, which will be enough to get you the prereqs of Raging Mongoose, and then get that from Martial Study (If you do this obviously get the Blood in the Water Stance). That's heavy damage right there, son.

Edit: If you're iron-clad set on your build and don't want to dip Warblade 1 (Despite being just 1 level and bringing you 4 extra attacks almost every round and soooo much stuff), you can use 3 of your feats to pick 2 low-req Tiger Claw maneuvers and Dancing Mongoose, through martial study. It won't be nearly as effective (just 2 extra attacks only once per encounter), but stil pretty cool.


Expedition to castle ravenloft? as long as i've been playing I don't think I've ever read that one...
It's setting-specific. Check with your DM if you're allowed to get ACF's and Feats from all over.


Chain lash is a double weapon with reach and can use weapon finesse as well so that is most definitely an option! only difference is this option requires an extra feat since it is exotic.
Spiked Chain is also exotic.