Shadow dancer gish?

[Invader]

I've always loved the shadow dancer despite its ridiculous prereqs and I was wondering if anyone had any good gish builds with it?

Not really anything specific as at this point is just a concept I'm toying around with.

[WhamBamSam]

It doesn't progress casting, and has only 3/4 BAB, so it doesn't seem to do much for a Gish. Maybe a one level dip for HiPS or a two level dip for HiPS and Evasion (to qualify for Foluchan Lyrist or something).

[AMFV]

Probably something with it's own casting, since you need more casting. So something like Ur-Priest or Divine Crusader or the like. That could be the base of some kind of gish build. Although it'd be difficult to build, any other requirements for the character?

[Urpriest]

What would be the point of using it in a gish? A gish can get the same flavor and abilities with spells that grant concealment/invisibility, dimension door, and summoning shadows. The whole point of shadowdancer is putting magical abilities on a nonmagical character.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

Methinks the OP may not have the same idea of what a gish is as the rest of you do. I, for one, have been away from the boards for years, and don't exactly recall what a gish is. Some sort of magical melee character, I think?

[Ramza00]

Shadow Creature LA 2
Rogue 2 /
Wizard 3 /
Unseen Seer 10 /
X 3

Shadow Creature has an ability called Shadow Blend which gives you total concealment (if you choose to) as long as it not full daylight. Total Concealment is effectively improved invisibility.

Rogue 2 for 1d6 Sneak Attack and Evasion
Wizard gives you Dimension Door, Silent Image, Summon Undead, etc. Be a conjuration specialist and teleport as an immediate action.
16 levels of wizard spellcasting kicks shadow dancer ass

[DeusMortuusEst]

Methinks the OP may not have the same idea of what a gish is as the rest of you do. I, for one, have been away from the boards for years, and don't exactly recall what a gish is. Some sort of magical melee character, I think?


- Gish: A fighter/wizard multiclass character, specifically one capable of casting higher level spells and surviving melee combat. May also be broadened to refer to any combination of warrior/arcane (or psionic caster) classes. Hybrid classes such as bards, duskblades, hexblades, and psychic warriors are generally not considered examples (multiclass characters only). Originates from the term for a Githyanki war wizard (in 2e, a fighter/wizard or rogue/wizard).


Common Acronyms, Abbreviations and Terms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18512) - Great thread, check it out :smallsmile:

[Invader]

I know what a gish is I'm just trying to figure out a good way to build It. This isn't really an exercise in optimization, sometimes you want to play a concept because you think it would be fun, not because it's the best.

That being said shadow dancer seems like a hard class to pull it off with.

[Norin]

Just to get something out of your prereq's:

Someting/Swiftblade X (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)/Shadowdancer 1?/more swiftblade/Gish prc's

That was a rough outline. The idea is to use your dodge/mobility/spring attack feats for something that gives a bit of synergy.

[AMFV]

Just to get something out of your prereq's:

Someting/Swiftblade X (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)/Shadowdancer 1?/more swiftblade/Gish prc's

That was a rough outline. The idea is to use your dodge/mobility/spring attack feats for something that gives a bit of synergy.

Probably the Something should be less caster focused, and the character should get some prestige class for stuffs. Like Trapsmith for example.

[Valwyn]

Maybe you could try Shadowcasters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268661) from ToM. I've never used them, so I don't know if they're good.

[Psyren]

For a "shadowdancer gish" I would use Incarnum - specifically the Umbral Disciple, which gets most of the Shadowdancer benefits like HiPs and can mimic the rest (e.g. Shadow Jump) with soulmelds like Blink Shirt. It also grants essentia, which ensures your soulmelds continue to scale in power as you level, and unlike Shadowdancer it actually advances sneak attack. You'll get standard gish benefits like flight, self-buffing, self-healing and teleportation.

[Urpriest]

I know what a gish is I'm just trying to figure out a good way to build It. This isn't really an exercise in optimization, sometimes you want to play a concept because you think it would be fun, not because it's the best.

That being said shadow dancer seems like a hard class to pull it off with.

It just seems to me like gishes are already capable of the same "fun" stuff that shadowdancer brings to the table. What extra "fun" stuff would you like to get out of shadowdancer?

[Invader]

My original thought was feat rogue/shadow dancer/bard + bard prc and use my bard levels to supplement whatever melee abilities I had.

I'd also be open to a skirmisher/SD/something build.

[Urpriest]

My original thought was feat rogue/shadow dancer/bard + bard prc and use my bard levels to supplement whatever melee abilities I had.

I'd also be open to a skirmisher/SD/something build.

Hmm, so you're thinking more a Shadowdancer build with some spellcasting added on?

That's definitely more doable. Actually, come to think of it, the universal bard gish chassis (Bard 7/X 3/Sublime Chord 1/Abjurant Champion 5/ 3/4 BAB 3) could definitely be tuned to this purpose.

How many levels of Shadowdancer do you want to fit in? Is a dip sufficient?

[Rebel7284]

You can use it to qualify for telflamar shadowlord without knowing Dimention door.

[Humble Master]

Shadow Dancer is really not a Gish class. As said above it does not progress casting and only gives you 3/4 BAB.


My original thought was feat rogue/shadow dancer/bard + bard prc and use my bard levels to supplement whatever melee abilities I had.

I'd also be open to a skirmisher/SD/something build.Well, if you were planning to use Bard then Sublime Cord would definitely be a good idea.

For a similar flavor as Shadow Dancer you could take Swordsage and focus on the Shadow Hand discipline.

[Invader]

Hmm, so you're thinking more a Shadowdancer build with some spellcasting added on?

That's definitely more doable. Actually, come to think of it, the universal bard gish chassis (Bard 7/X 3/Sublime Chord 1/Abjurant Champion 5/ 3/4 BAB 3) could definitely be tuned to this purpose.

How many levels of Shadowdancer do you want to fit in? Is a dip sufficient?

At least 3rd but 4th or 5th for flavor wouldn't be terrible if it works in the build.

[Urpriest]

At least 3rd but 4th or 5th for flavor wouldn't be terrible if it works in the build.

Huh.

Well, a Bard 7/Shadowdancer 3/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Ruathar 3 works as a build, though it only gets BAB +16 if you use fractional BAB. Stir in a bit of Unseen Seer if it feels appropriate.

What's so flavorful about level 5? 4 I could see, since dimension door is sort of archetypal (though as a gish you can just cast it), 5 just has some rogue abilities.

[Invader]

Huh.

Well, a Bard 7/Shadowdancer 3/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Ruathar 3 works as a build, though it only gets BAB +16 If you use fractional . Stir in a bit of Unseen Seer if it feels appropriate.

What's so flavorful about level 5? 4 I could see, since dimension door is sort of archetypal (though as a gish you can just cast it), 5 just has some rogue abilities.

I guess 5 isn't really necessary. I feel the same way about 4th, its really easy to replicate but it's kind of a key feature of the class but even so I'm fine with only 3 levels.