Why do merfolk have an AC bonus? [PF/3.5]

[The Oni]

I'm looking for a fluff justification for this, as I'm designing a similar aquatic race for a sourcebook. Why do Merfolk have a natural AC bonus in Pathfinder?

I don't object to buffs, but it seems unusual, since their human half is stated to be quite humanoid and fleshy for all intents and purposes, and the fish bit has scales, but anyone who's ever cut into a fish knows that fish scales aren't exactly an aegis of protection. They are nimble in the water, but that ought to be covered by their Dex bonus, and out of the water...well, they're gonna be a bit restrained in their acrobatics. Does anyone have a good reason that Merfolk should have high AC?

If there's a mechanical reason for it then my variation may keep the +2 AC, but if it doesn't make sense I'll probably ditch it for something more flavorful.

[Tanuki Tales]

Depending on how far down they live, you could fluff it the same way DC does. Aquaman is designed to function perfectly in extremely punishing amounts of pressure and as a result his body is moderately bullet proof.

[Hamste]

I'm looking for a fluff justification for this, as I'm designing a similar aquatic race for a sourcebook. Why do Merfolk have a natural AC bonus in Pathfinder?

I don't object to buffs, but it seems unusual, since their human half is stated to be quite humanoid and fleshy for all intents and purposes, and the fish bit has scales, but anyone who's ever cut into a fish knows that fish scales aren't exactly an aegis of protection. They are nimble in the water, but that ought to be covered by their Dex bonus, and out of the water...well, they're gonna be a bit restrained in their acrobatics. Does anyone have a good reason that Merfolk should have high AC?

If there's a mechanical reason for it then my variation may keep the +2 AC, but if it doesn't make sense I'll probably ditch it for something more flavorful.

I would suggest reworking the entire race in general without cribbing much from it. It is incredibly over powered for a race (who thought a slower move speed equaled the bonuses they get?). As near as I can tell they gave it extra armor for no real good reason and the race can function better than average even without it

[The Oni]

As it happens the premise is roughly "Merfolk, if they hung around the Abyssopelagic zone." They're definitely not the sirens and heartbreakers you might expect. But, regular merfolk do exist in the setting, and these guys are an offshoot. I didn't want to make them weaker than regular merfolk, is all; they're unlikely to be a player race unless the game is of the sort that OK's minotaurs and succubi, I think. The main reason I'm statting them like player races is for GM convenience in making a cool encounter.

So, are vanilla-Merfolk that OP? It might be easier just to declare them worthy of a certain +LA.

[SassyQuatch]

So, are vanilla-Merfolk that OP? It might be easier just to declare them worthy of a certain +LA.
Not even close to OP. Underwater they can be strong, but that is all swim speed and the stat bonuses. If you have to go even for a moment onto land or into a cave and they are slow-moving bait.

[The Oni]

Not even close to OP. Underwater they can be strong, but that is all swim speed and the stat bonuses. If you have to go even for a moment onto land or into a cave and they are slow-moving bait.

Fair point, but there are archetypes which can really abuse that. Think a Gun Tank Strongtail Merfolk. Yes he's stuck at a speed of 10, but he can get a great AC and range/damage with that DEX bonus.

[The Insanity]

They live in high pressure places, so they're more durable. *shrug*

[TuggyNE]

The monster listing has this to say: "+2 Natural Armor: Merfolk have tough skin". That's it.

Generally in 3.x, natural armor is used as a patch to get AC values to a desired range; it has no particular link to any one factor, or even a defined relationship to any group of factors. For example, eagles have +1 natural armor, but giant eagles have +3, because, I dunno, thick feathers or something. Pixies have +1 natural armor because reasons. Elephants have +7 natural armor because of their thick skin, which makes sense, but then rakshasas have +9 natural armor because … who knows?

Anyway, yeah, natural armor is not generally justifiable. Less so, in fact, than HP, in my opinion.

[Psyren]

Merfolk are fine. There are much more powerful races out there, even in an aquatic campaign.

[Thurbane]

I have a Merfolk [3.5] related question: if I wanted to play a Merfolk, what's the easiest way to get around their 5 ft speed on land? Preferrably not having to rely on a mount. A dip into Barbarian will boost it to 15, any other ideas?

[Psyren]

They can use Airstep Sandals and "hop around" 20ft. at level 1. (Yes, it will work even if they have no legs.)

[Thrawn183]

I don't object to buffs, but it seems unusual, since their human half is stated to be quite humanoid and fleshy for all intents and purposes, and the fish bit has scales, but anyone who's ever cut into a fish knows that fish scales aren't exactly an aegis of protection.

There were Alligator Gar in the river I grew up fishing on. We decided to try for them once to see if they really tasted as bad as everyone said. I watched my dad break the tip of his fillet knife on one. Ended up using sheet metal sheers on the dang thing. Fish scales are no joke.

Alligator Gar taste like mud in case anyone is wondering.

[Runeclaw]

I agree with TuggyNE. Merforlk have Natural Armor because it is desirable for them to have a respectable Armor Class but it is not desirable for them to wear heavy armor.

[Greenish]

Merfolk are fine. There are much more powerful races out there, even in an aquatic campaign.Do you mean humans and the other usual suspects, or are there some awesome aquatic races I haven't noticed?


They can use Airstep Sandals and "hop around" 20ft. at level 1. (Yes, it will work even if they have no legs.)Now that's an image…

[Mutazoia]

There were Alligator Gar in the river I grew up fishing on. We decided to try for them once to see if they really tasted as bad as everyone said. I watched my dad break the tip of his fillet knife on one. Ended up using sheet metal sheers on the dang thing. Fish scales are no joke.

Pretty much this. Think of it as natural "scale" armor. You would be surprised how may types of aquatic life looks soft and squishy but isn't.

Not being able to wear armor, Merfolk would have to evolve natural armor to help protect from larger predators (like great white sharks).


Alligator Gar taste like mud in case anyone is wondering.

There's a reason you listen when "everybody says" [X] tastes awful :smallwink:

[The Oni]

This does make sense.

[TuggyNE]

Alligator Gar taste like mud in case anyone is wondering.

But how do I know for sure? I must try one! :smalltongue:

[Mutazoia]

But how do I know for sure? I must try one! :smalltongue:

Go ahead...you might like it. Hell they eat sea slug in Dubai... (Think the texture of a giant, stale Gummy Bear)

[Evandar]

Go ahead...you might like it. Hell they eat sea slug in Dubai... (Think the texture of a giant, stale Gummy Bear)

Ewwwwwwwwwww.

[Lord Vukodlak]

but anyone who's ever cut into a fish knows that fish scales aren't exactly an aegis of protection.

Ever cut into a fish that was five-feet long? Natural armor can also be more then scales it can leathery skin, thick hair or even just dense muscle. As another poster pointed out there are fish with tough hides (such as the Alligator Gar) we just don't bother eating them because they taste awful.

[hamishspence]

Do you mean humans and the other usual suspects, or are there some awesome aquatic races I haven't noticed?

Various races in Stormwrack.

[Psyren]

I agree with TuggyNE. Merforlk have Natural Armor because it is desirable for them to have a respectable Armor Class but it is not desirable for them to wear heavy armor.


They live in high pressure places, so they're more durable. *shrug*

I'd say these sum it up best (crunch and fluff respectively.)


Do you mean humans and the other usual suspects, or are there some awesome aquatic races I haven't noticed?

In PF, just the usual suspects. 3.5 also has the Stormwrack rogue's gallery.

[JungleChicken]

I'm looking for a fluff justification for this, as I'm designing a similar aquatic race for a sourcebook. Why do Merfolk have a natural AC bonus in Pathfinder?

I don't object to buffs, but it seems unusual, since their human half is stated to be quite humanoid and fleshy for all intents and purposes, and the fish bit has scales, but anyone who's ever cut into a fish knows that fish scales aren't exactly an aegis of protection.

If there's a mechanical reason for it then my variation may keep the +2 AC, but if it doesn't make sense I'll probably ditch it for something more flavorful.

Have you ever tried to cut a fish as big as you? Seriously just watch a few episodes of river monsters and you will so some of fish he catches have 1/8 inch scales and possibly thicker.

[Mutazoia]

Also keep in mind that a lot of larger fish have a layer of blubber (fat) to insulate them from the cold temperatures of deep waters and colder climates...just cutting the blubber doesn't affect them much.

[Greenish]

Also keep in mind that a lot of larger fish have a layer of blubber (fat) to insulate them from the cold temperatures of deep waters and colder climates...just cutting the blubber doesn't affect them much."Blubber" is by definition the fat of sea mammals. Fishies just have regular ol' fat (if they do).

[Mutazoia]

"Blubber" is by definition the fat of sea mammals. Fishies just have regular ol' fat (if they do).

And Merfolk are mamals :smallbiggrin:

[The Insanity]

And Merfolk are mamals :smallbiggrin:
[citation needed]

[Thanatosia]

Maybe the scales on their fishy lower halves are really strong? And since D&D does not have location specific damage, the 'armor' of their scales on their lower halves averages out with their unarmored top halves go give an overall natural armor boost.

[BWR]

I'm tempted to say the mammaries (and hair) make a strong case for merrow being mammals.
Dragon #48, p.9 says "mammals do not breathe water" while discussing amongst other things merfolk. This would mean aquatic elves are not mammals. If aquatic elves are not mammals, would that make normal elves not-mammals?

Or maybe real world physics sits in a corner and cries when we try applying it to fantasy worlds, especially in the case of chimeric beings. If I needed to rule, I'd say merrow were both piscine and mammalian (laying eggs but breastfeeding).


Fishies just have regular ol' fat (if they do)
Yes they do, even if it tastes quite different from mammalian fat.

[The Insanity]

Elves are aliens.