[3.5] Help building a gish with a BFS

[Uncle Pine]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of building a backup character to use in case my half-orc barbarian dies. The idea is a character that can handle nasty no save-you suck spells and power like empowered ray of stupidity, sudden maximized enervation and ego whip without being a full caster (because it'd probably just start an arms race with the DM and I don't want such a thing) AND is beefy enough to not be screwed by mundanes. Plus, being able to understand how dangerous the enemy is without resorting to metagame would help, since the monsters the DM throws at us all seems equally powerful when he describes them. Except that some of them are more equally powerful than the other and this tends to screw up the party's tactics.
So far, I thought about a gish with access to enlarge weapon, antimagic field, a couple of +1 shrinking aptitude weapons (or a couple of masterwork weapons and a +1 shrinking aptitude dragonshard pommel stone) and the Combat Intuition, Long Reach and Selective Spell feats. Hence, the title. :smallbiggrin:

But I'm not sure about the build itself, since this will be the 1st gish character I make! (I built some gish back when I was a DM, but I feel like handling monsters and CRs is quite different from handling characters and levels)
How does a Fighter 1/Enchanter 4/Runesmith 2/Eldritch Knight 1/Abjurant Champion 4/Eldritch Knight +1/Abjurant Champion +1/Runesmith +3/Eldritch Knight +3 sound? Final build would be Fighter 1/Enchanter 4/Runesmith 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 5.
Enchanter for Sense Motive as a class skill, Runesmith for Rune Magic (aka full plate casting) and Permanent Rune (limited wish or selective antimagic field), Abjurant Champion because Arcane Boost is pretty cool and is full BAB/full spellcasting, Eldritch Knight for Sense Motive and full BAB/almost full spellcasting. BAB 15 (argh!) and CL 18.
Is there a way to bring that BAB 15 up to 16? I don't really care about CL hits because I'm actually only interested in 7th level spells (selective antimagic field) but I struggle to find good full BAB candidates with Sense Motive as a class skill.

Should it matter, the rest of the party (at the moment) is a suboptimized Psion/Crystal Master, a Voce Warrior with Paladin levels and the Boomerang Daze feat, a manimal monkey (think about it as a Diminutive anthropomorphic monkey) Rogue with Underfoot Combat and Counfound the Big Folk and a TWF Swordsage. We're at 8th level.

[Craft (Cheese)]

I did a double take when I saw that Runesmith was a 1/2 BAB class. I mean... really? That's just terrible for a class so obviously intended for gishing. Ugh. If it had medium BAB you'd have no problem, but it doesn't, so we're gonna have to make some sacrifices if you want that 4th iterative attack, but your build's more than acceptable as-is honestly.

Normally I'd suggest trading a level of Runesmith somewhere for a level of Spellsword, but that's not going to work because you want Permanent Rune.

Since you don't care about 9th-level spells: Fighter 2/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Enchanter 2/Runesmith 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Runesmith +4/Eldritch Knight 4 gets BAB +16 and CL 16 at level 20. Hopefully I got all of those requirements juggled into the right order.

Also, personally I'd trade those two fighter levels for Duskblade, but that's up to you.

[Uncle Pine]

First of all, thanks for the reply. And a happy new year to you!

I didn't notice that Duskblade have Sense Motive as a class skill. The same goes for Barbarian, for some odd reason. Duskblade also has Combat Casting as a bonus feat at 2nd level, which in this case is better than yet another fighter bonus feat. Just a question: is that single Spellsword level there just to get an extra +2 Fort and +2 Will? :smalltongue:

This means that unless someone else has some good advice about class levels, the build will be:
Duskblade 2/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Enchanter 2/Runesmith 5/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 1/Eldritch Knight 4
(Progression: Duskblade 2/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Enchanter 2/Runesmith 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Runesmith +4/Eldritch Knight 4)

Feats:
1st - Long Reach
2nd - Combat Casting (B)
3rd - Improved Initiative
6th - Empower Spell
9th - Combat Intuition
12th - Selective Spell
15th -
17th - Power Attack (B)
18th -

Any idea about how to fill the gaps and/or improve the selection of feats?

[Craft (Cheese)]

I didn't notice that Duskblade have Sense Motive as a class skill. The same goes for Barbarian, for some odd reason. Duskblade also has Combat Casting as a bonus feat at 2nd level, which in this case is better than yet another fighter bonus feat. Just a question: is that single Spellsword level there just to get an extra +2 Fort and +2 Will? :smalltongue:

Well, you qualify for it, so why not?


Feats:
1st - Long Reach
2nd - Combat Casting (B)
3rd - Improved Initiative
6th - Empower Spell
9th - Combat Intuition
12th - Selective Spell
15th -
17th - Power Attack (B)
18th -

Any idea about how to fill the gaps and/or improve the selection of feats?

First question: Are flaws allowed? Fit practiced spellcaster in there somewhere to get your abysmal caster level up, if you can afford to (maybe replacing Improved Initiative?). Replace Empower Spell with Extend Spell (very useful for your non-abjuration buffs, and useful for those too until you get Abjurant Champion online). Minor Shapeshift is awesome: I'd tell you to take it at 12th, but you need to take Selective Spell at that level, so take it at 15th. With your 18th feat, take Persistent Spell. Persistent Wraithstrike is awesome even without metamagic reducers to get it earlier.

Second question: You do know that you have to be a gnoll to get Long Reach, right? If the racial requirements are being waived, I strongly suggest you go human instead of dwarf.

[Uncle Pine]

First question: Are flaws allowed? Fit practiced spellcaster in there somewhere to get your abysmal caster level up, if you can afford to (maybe replacing Improved Initiative?). Replace Empower Spell with Extend Spell (very useful for your non-abjuration buffs, and useful for those too until you get Abjurant Champion online). Minor Shapeshift is awesome: I'd tell you to take it at 12th, but you need to take Selective Spell at that level, so take it at 15th. With your 18th feat, take Persistent Spell. Persistent Wraithstrike is awesome even without metamagic reducers to get it earlier.
Flaws are allowed, but I usually prefer to avoid them if I can, especially because this build doesn't suffer "feat starvation" at all. Yes, persistent wraithstrike is awesome, especially along with Power Attack. Minor Shapeshift doesn't look half bad, but would probably be a nice "minor" addition. Improved Initiative could be really useful with a wand of Nerveskitter to act before other spellcasters (celerity is banned), at least until I don't get selective antimagic field, so I'll probably keep it. But I could fit Practiced Spellcaster if I find a RPable flaw in Dragon Magazine.


Second question: You do know that you have to be a gnoll to get Long Reach, right? If the racial requirements are being waived, I strongly suggest you go human instead of dwarf.
To select a [Regional] feat you either have to be from that region (in this case, a gnoll or a volodni) or have at least 2 ranks in Knowledge (local) about that region. We don't play in Faerun and thus those regions don't exist in our world, so the skill requirement has been waived. And I need to be a dwarf to qualify for Runesmith. Too bad there isn't a strongheart dwarf subrace somewhere. :smallsmile:

EDIT: Quick Burning Rage looks like a fine flaw for the kind of dwarf I have in mind. This mean that I can now take Practiced Spellcaster and that the build is done. Thank you again for the help Craft (Cheese)!