Making Zorro

[Vhaidara]

So, I was watching Mask of Zorro last night and decided I wanted to make him. However, his skillset is everywhere. Here's what I've determined
1. Competent in the following fighting styles: unarmed, improvised, rapier (offensive and defensive), whip, 2 rapiers (offensive and defensive)

2. Skilled at maneuvering in social situations (high bluff, diplomacy, sense motive, Perform (dance)), as well as general maneuvering (Tumble, Jump, Balance, Ride, Climb)

3. Competent equestrian, with an unusually intelligent mount.

So, I'm seeing aspects of
Monk (unarmed combat, acrobatics)
Drunken Master (improvised weapon proficiency)
Paladin of Freedom (special mount)
Bard (rapier, social proficiency, knowing his dramatic cues)
Ranger (TWF)
Lasher (whips)

Now, what would bee the best way to combine these classes (or other classes I forgot) to make Zorro?

[D4rkh0rus]

So, I was watching Mask of Zorro last night and decided I wanted to make him. However, his skillset is everywhere. Here's what I've determined
1. Competent in the following fighting styles: unarmed, improvised, rapier (offensive and defensive), whip, 2 rapiers (offensive and defensive)

2. Skilled at maneuvering in social situations (high bluff, diplomacy, sense motive, Perform (dance)), as well as general maneuvering (Tumble, Jump, Balance, Ride, Climb)

3. Competent equestrian, with an unusually intelligent mount.

So, I'm seeing aspects of
Monk (unarmed combat, acrobatics)
Drunken Master (improvised weapon proficiency)
Paladin of Freedom (special mount)
Bard (rapier, social proficiency, knowing his dramatic cues)
Ranger (TWF)
Lasher (whips)

Now, what would bee the best way to combine these classes (or other classes I forgot) to make Zorro?


First of all, focusing on so many combat styles... I do not reccomend... Grab one state of Zorro and focus on it.

Since the stereotypical one is him wielding a Rapier or a whip. well go with that.

Most classes with a good amount of skill points can replicate Zorro's skills and feats handle the combat skills (TWF, rapiers, etc)
I would suggest ranger or rogue (or factotum if its available, factotum op.)..
Although, Zorro's combat style is a very mobile one, so if you intend to replicate it, do something like cloistered cleric 1 (travel devotion and turn undead to fuel it), scout 4 or 5, rest ranger. (With swift hunter feat of course)

Skirmish is pretty good representation of it (I may be biased, in all its underpowered glory... I love the concept of skirmish... GOGO MONGOL ARCHERS... ahem, anyways).

that would give you proficiencies, decent BaB, skill points, TWF tree, among other things.

Also, your animal companion can be a horse. Its not gonna be too smart... but you can use handle animal to make up for that. Teach it tricks (Agree with your DM to train your horse to react to certain gestures, for example flicking your fingers and calling its name has it rushing to your side, etc.)
Tricks were made for just that purpose.

[Vhaidara]

Well, part of my goal was getting all of the combat styles. I guess if i had to, i would follow the build you are suggesting and then gestalt monk/drunken master onto the other side.

Scout: ...My favorite characters have made use of skirmish. It's probably one of my favorite mechanics in the game. HOW DID I FORGET IT?!?!?!

Now, one thing I definitely wanted was the whip tricks that come from lasher, just because of the sheer number of badass moments those can create.

[Vaz]

Swashbuckler with Wild Cohort.

[D4rkh0rus]

Well, part of my goal was getting all of the combat styles. I guess if i had to, i would follow the build you are suggesting and then gestalt monk/drunken master onto the other side.

Scout: ...My favorite characters have made use of skirmish. It's probably one of my favorite mechanics in the game. HOW DID I FORGET IT?!?!?!

Now, one thing I definitely wanted was the whip tricks that come from lasher, just because of the sheer number of badass moments those can create.


the sad, but true reality of this game is.
If its extraordinary...

It can be replicated with magic.

If it can be replicated with magic. It can be made into a scroll.

Double UMD! all the way.

[Prime32]

Swashbuckler with Wild Cohort.Replace swashbuckler with factotum. :smalltongue:

[dysprosium]

Swashbuckler with Wild Cohort.

+1 to this.

I would add at least three levels of Rogue to nab the Daring Outlaw feat.

Swashbuckler and Rogue give you the skills you are looking for.

[Metahuman1]

Factotum 1/ Clositered Cleric 1/ Swashbuckler 3/ Factotum X/ Swordsage 2/ Warblade 1.

Snag Keen Intellect, Jack of All Trades or Able Learner, Combat Panach, maybe power attack/Stone Power, and Kung Fu Genius and wild cohort. Maybe TWF and Oversized/Improved TWF. Oh, and don't forget adaptive style.

For Cloistered Cleric, get Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, and what ever else in the way of domains/devotions meets your fancy.

When you take a level that gives you a redundant proficiency, retrain it to exotic weapons proficiency whip, Improved unarmed strike, exotic weapons proficiency improvised weapons, and Superior unarmed strike.

Your Warblade maneuvers should be carefully chosen Iron Heart moves like Mithrial Tornado, Iron Heart Surge and Disarming strike.

Swordsage I'd say look toward Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw, and mobility tricks form Dessert Wind with the fire flavor removed, as well as any mobility tricks or especially useful defenses you can find form Shadow hand and Setting Sun to cherry pick. Oh, and Discipline Focus Diamond Mind, obviously.

[Ramza00]

Factotum 3/Swashbuckler 3/Marshal 1

Factotum for INT to ac, attack, damage, social skills etc via using an inspiration point
Swashbuckler for weapon finesse and INT to damage
Marshal 1 for charisma to disarm, trip, bull rush, and sunder attempts.
He is about 7th level with 6 bab

His whip is a masterwork item of jump and climb. As a houserule if he secures his whip to a solid surface such as a rafter he is counted as running for long jumps.

[Vaz]

Replace swashbuckler with factotum. :smalltongue:

I was thinking initially of the Seduction dead level ability, but that the rest of the abilities work well also.

[Waker]

I'd say Factotum/Warblade would give you a broad range of skills and special techniques to emulate much of what you want. Take some levels in Lasher to further fill in the flavor requirements. Brains over Brawn will especially work well with Improved Trip using your whip. Others have pointed out Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a), which will serve just fine for your mount.

[Rogue Shadows]

Now, when you say Zorro, do you mean Diego de la Vega, or Alejandro Murrieta?

De la Vega starts as a 1st-level Aristocrat, I think. From there he multiclasses into Swashbuckler for a few levels, then heads straight into Duelist. Let's call him an Aristocrat 1/Swashbuckler 6/Duelist 8 by movie's end (I don't recall de la Vega ever displaying proficiency with two-weapon fighting)

Alejandro, by contrast, starts as a Rogue, before de la Vega picks him up and teaches him to swashbuckle. Alejandro never picks up Duelist, but instead favors alternating between Swashbuckler and Rogue. He picks up a few cross-class ranks in Ride for Toronado, but most of what he displays during his one horseback fight scene can easily be duplicated by successful Jump and Balance checks. It's also worth noting that even by movie's end, de la Vega is probably a superior swordsman. So we'll call Alejandro a Rogue 5/Swashbuckler 7.

That's what I'd do, anyway.

My point is that a version of Zorro that does not have most of his levels in either Swashbuckler or Duelist is simply wrong.

[Ramza00]

My point is that a version of Zorro that does not have most of his levels in either Swashbuckler or Duelist is simply wrong.
Why is it wrong?

[Rogue Shadows]

Why is it wrong?

Because what is the point of the Swashbuckler class if you're not going to use it to create one of the most iconic swashbucklers there is?

[Prime32]

Because what is the point of the Swashbuckler class if you're not going to use it to create one of the most iconic swashbucklers there is?No one said the class had to have a point. :smalltongue: Obviously it was supposed to have one, but fighters were supposed to be the best leaders and guards despite having neither Diplomacy nor Spot/Listen as class skills (nor any way to buff their teammates or absorb damage, despite those being available to other classes even in Core).

As it stands, building Zorro as a swashbuckler will make him worse at swashbuckling than a factotum of equal level, which is inaccurate to the character.

[Rogue Shadows]

As it stands, building Zorro as a swashbuckler will make him worse at swashbuckling than a factotum of equal level, which is inaccurate to the character.

If you want to be entirely fair then making him a factotum will allow him to cast spells as spell-like abilities or heal wounds with a touch, which is inaccurate to the character as well.

(As he did not encounter undead, I cannot speak as to whether or not his ability to turn undead as a factotum is accurate, but something tells me it is not).

[Vaz]

No one said the class had to have a point. :smalltongue: Obviously it was supposed to have one, but fighters were supposed to be the best leaders and guards despite having neither Diplomacy nor Spot/Listen as class skills (nor any way to buff their teammates or absorb damage, despite those being available to other classes even in Core).

As it stands, building Zorro as a swashbuckler will make him worse at swashbuckling than a factotum of equal level, which is inaccurate to the character.

Swashbuckler 4 works well. Arcane Stunt for Featherfall, Seduction dead level to ease out secret plots, Int to damage, full BAB, decent skill list...

After that, i'll admit that it loses potency.

[Vhaidara]

Yeah, int to damage is the main thing I want out of SB. And the Seduction Dead Level

As far as factotum, I would use one of the martial homebrew variants that gives them maneuvers instead of spells. That gets me the ToB capabilities and leaves me open to go into Lasher.

Maybe spend a level in Warblade for the Weapon Aptitude (Allowing at some points for Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Improvised) to be alternated with the whip)

[PaucaTerrorem]

Seduction Dead Level

What is this?

[Vhaidara]

Dead Levels (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x)

Basically, at levels where a class got nothing, they got a little something (usually flavor, not balance changes).

For Swashbucklers, you can make a Bluff check to seduce them and learn secrets. Kind of like Bardic Knowledge, but sexier and with Bluff.

[PraxisVetli]

Factotum 3/Swashbuckler 3/Marshal 1

Factotum for INT to ac, attack, damage, social skills etc via using an inspiration point
Swashbuckler for weapon finesse and INT to damage
Marshal 1 for charisma to disarm, trip, bull rush, and sunder attempts.
He is about 7th level with 6 bab

His whip is a masterwork item of jump and climb. As a houserule if he secures his whip to a solid surface such as a rafter he is counted as running for long jumps.

Doesn't one of the skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel allow you to grapple and grab things with a Whip?

[Ramza00]

Because what is the point of the Swashbuckler class if you're not going to use it to create one of the most iconic swashbucklers there is?

There are other famous swashbucklers

D'Artagnan, Athos, Porthos, and Aramis
Cyrano De Bergerac
Hector Barbosa
Sinbad
Robin Hood
Ivanhoe
Westly (The Man in Black from the Princess Bride)

Not all swashbucklers fight the same. Zorro both in the mark of zorro (the original magazine serial run) and the recent mask of zorro movie is not a duelist, Zorro fights defensively when it is one or one, or he fights with mobility when it is a group fight, until the right opportunistic moment happens and he with a fit of inspiration disarm his opponent, or makes the million to one shot.

Factotum mechanically (with the combat expertise feat) supports zorro better than the duelist. Factotum is also the stronger class, I am not trying to min max when describing Zorro, but fits of inspiration is exactly how Zorro operates.

[Rogue Shadows]

There are other famous swashbucklers

And I did say "one of" the most famous swashbucklers, not "the" most famous.


Factotum mechanically (with the combat expertise feat) supports zorro better than the duelist. Factotum is also the stronger class, I am not trying to min max when describing Zorro, but fits of inspiration is exactly how Zorro operates.

And if you're okay with him being able to cast spells, turn undead, and heal with a touch as well, then you're set to go. Even still, however, it just feels wrong to not have Zorro with a major amount of his class levels in Swashbuckler or Duelist.

[Ramza00]

And I did say "one of" the most famous swashbucklers, not "the" most famous.



And if you're okay with him being able to cast spells, turn undead, and heal with a touch as well, then you're set to go. Even still, however, it just feels wrong to not have Zorro with a major amount of his class levels in Swashbuckler or Duelist.

I am fine with 3 or 4 levels of Swashbuckler, Duelist not that much for Zorro.

You also don't have to use the turn undead and heal abilities with Zorro that Factotum proviced. Zorro never fought zombies or vampires so he probably didn't need turn undead. If he is in a campaign with undead is it fair to deny him that ability for normally the D&D character you based it off of is set in late 18th century early 19th century spanish/mexican california?

You reflavor the spells
Wraithstrike can be turn into a flourish of the blade that allows you to attack the opponents weak points avoiding his armor (his joints for example)
True strike can be a strike delivered true
A bash to the head with the sword pomel, stunning the opponent, could be Bladeweave.
Seeking Ray can be a trusty pistol shot
Phantom Steed or Mount can be Zorro calling on his trusty steed Tornado
etc

[Rogue Shadows]

No matter how much you reflavor Factotum, the fact remains that, again, one of the most iconic swashbucklers, is not being statted up as a Swashbuckler. I'd rather optimize the Swashbuckler than run the Factotum for Zorro; it's rather the same as statting up Merlin as a Cleric, or Conan as a Warblade.

[Pickford]

A factotum lacks full BAB, so they will never be as good at disarming their foes as a Swashbuckler. Also: Acrobatic Charge! This is classic Zorro.

The Factotum is fun, but I don't see any Zorro in it.

[Ramza00]

A factotum lacks full BAB, so they will never be as good at disarming their foes as a Swashbuckler.
A Factotum gets Int to the disarm attack for 1 inspiration. Thus at level 8, a level 8 Factotum is 2 BAB behind a normal Swashbuckler, but which Factotum out there has an Int less than 14? If anything the Factotum is a better disarmer than a swashbuckler, and that is my entire point Zorro uses opportunity and swavy (inspiration) to defeat his opponents not just raw skill (which is represented by bab and static attack bonuses)

Reminder of the rules on disarm check.

Step 2
Opposed Rolls. You and the defender make opposed attack rolls with your respective weapons. The wielder of a two-handed weapon on a disarm attempt gets a +4 bonus on this roll, and the wielder of a light weapon takes a -4 penalty. (An unarmed strike is considered a light weapon, so you always take a penalty when trying to disarm an opponent by using an unarmed strike.) If the combatants are of different sizes, the larger combatant gets a bonus on the attack roll of +4 per difference in size category. If the targeted item isn’t a melee weapon, the defender takes a -4 penalty on the roll.


Also: Acrobatic Charge! This is classic Zorro.

Nimble Charge Skill Trick
Twisted Charge Skill Trick

Magic Items
Rock boots (MIC 130)
Vanguard treads (MIC 145)
Iyaringu of the earth dragon (DrM 102)
Sandals of the light step (MIC 198)
Boots of the battle charger (MIC 76), if you have an item that gives an enhancement bonus to Dex.


No matter how much you reflavor Factotum, the fact remains that, again, one of the most iconic swashbucklers, is not being statted up as a Swashbuckler. I'd rather optimize the Swashbuckler than run the Factotum for Zorro; it's rather the same as statting up Merlin as a Cleric, or Conan as a Warblade.

I care more about the mechanics of the class than the name attached to the class. I am sorry but if we remove the classes names and just call them class A and class B, a Factotum feels more like Zorro than a Swashbuckler does. Zorro to me is a normal (but talented) man who is the fox for he has the devil's own luck.

[Juntao112]

No matter how much you reflavor Factotum, the fact remains that, again, one of the most iconic swashbucklers, is not being statted up as a Swashbuckler. I'd rather optimize the Swashbuckler than run the Factotum for Zorro; it's rather the same as statting up Merlin as a Cleric, or Conan as a Warblade.

What is this "Swashbuckler" you speak of? I have never heard of it before. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html)

[Rogue Shadows]

What is this "Swashbuckler" you speak of? I have never heard of it before. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html)

Yeah...no. Merlin is a wizard, Conan is a barbarian, Roland Deschain is a gunslinger, Miyamoto Musashi was a samurai, and Zorro is a swashbuckler. There is a difference between making a random PC or NPC, and trying to stat out iconic characters around which entire classes were designed or inspired. If D&D were a system more like Star Wars Saga Edition, then I could get behind the idea of making him a combination of different classes, because Saga's as close to a classless d20 system that you're gonna find and you only have the five to work with.

But when you have an entire class designed pretty much specifically to be, among others, Zorro...it just doesn't feel right.


Zorro to me is a normal (but talented) man who is the fox for he has the devil's own luck.

That can describe, just about literally, every single hero, from every single adventure, that has ever been written, that did not make specific mention of destiny, so how this justifies Factotum is beyond me. Hell, if you want to talk about luck from Devils then why aren't you statting him out as a Malefactor?

And if you want to get real specific about the Factotum, between a d8 hit die, bad base attack bonus, arcane features, divine features, trapfinding, and limited uses of abilities per encounter, it really doesn't seem like Zorro anymore. With a primary stat of Intelligence, it especially doesn't seem like Alejandro Murrieta, who was charming and charismatic, not intelligent (and even then he was charismatic only after being trained by de la Vega); in fact I'd make strong argument that Intelligence was Alejandro's dump stat and was at best a 10. You have to twist the class on its head to make it thematically work.

The Factotum has one trait that makes sense for other incarnations of Zorro, the intelligence-bonus-to-stuffs. But the Swashbuckler gets a d10 Hit Die, Dexterity to attack rolls, good Fortitude saves and a bonus to his Reflex saves, an intelligence bonus to attack rolls, dodge bonus to AC, acrobatic charge, improved flanking, a class feature called lucky (as long as we're talking about the luck of devils), et cetera, et cetera. No reflavoring necessary.

(And before you talk about Zorro fighting multiple foes at once, those were very clearly low-level mooks, he doesn't need class features to deal with them).

Is he the best of the best? No, because D&D's stupidly unbalanced like that. If you want to make a character that's the best at something you have to go to Tier-1 or Tier-2; a wizard will out-swashbuckle a Swashbuckler or a Factotum any day of the week. But if you're trying to be true to Zorro, then he's a primary-class Swashbuckler who has maybe dipped Aristocrat, or Rogue, or Fighter, or Duelist, or hell, maybe even Factotum.

And if the power level is a problem, then just make him a Pathfinder swashbuckler. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/swashbuckler) Problem solved.

[Pickford]

A Factotum gets Int to the disarm attack for 1 inspiration. Thus at level 8, a level 8 Factotum is 2 BAB behind a normal Swashbuckler, but which Factotum out there has an Int less than 14? If anything the Factotum is a better disarmer than a swashbuckler, and that is my entire point Zorro uses opportunity and swavy (inspiration) to defeat his opponents not just raw skill (which is represented by bab and static attack bonuses)

Reminder of the rules on disarm check.

And Inspiration points are a limited resource in any given fight. The Swashbuckler will be making those checks are a higher chance of success long after the Factotum has run out of points.


Nimble Charge Skill Trick
Twisted Charge Skill Trick

Yeah, but once per combat! If I'm swashing around I want to swing across the room on a chandelier, then charge up on top of a table for higher ground, etc...


Magic Items
Rock boots (MIC 130)
Vanguard treads (MIC 145)
Iyaringu of the earth dragon (DrM 102)
Sandals of the light step (MIC 198)
Boots of the battle charger (MIC 76), if you have an item that gives an enhancement bonus to Dex.

True, but this money could be spent elsewhere (like in flashy clothes :smallbiggrin: )

I still think the mechanics of the Swashbuckler class are more Zorro-esque than the way the Factotum could be used.

[Rogue Shadows]

I also just, as a general rule, abhor per-encounter abilities, and by extension, classes that grant them.

With per-day abilities I can see them as acceptable breaks from reality; they represent things that would just be too powerful to do all day long. So even though it doesn't make much sense that, say, a fighter can only swing his sword in this way X many times per day before he somehow forgets it, I can get behind the mechanical reasoning.

Per-encounter abilities, however, are completely arbitrary in number of times per day that they can be used. You could have a hundred distinct 3-round encounters in a day, and so get to use a 3/encounter ability three hundred times; or you could get one 30-round encounter in a day...and still get only 3 uses of your per-encounter ability, even if you, for example, duck behind a wall for 10 rounds to rest and recover.

I'd much rather just make the per-encounter abilities either at-will or with high per-day uses...

[Gemini476]

Yeah...no. Merlin is a wizard, Conan is a barbarian, Roland Deschain is a gunslinger, Miyamoto Musashi was a samurai, and Zorro is a swashbuckler. There is a difference between making a random PC or NPC, and trying to stat out iconic characters around which entire classes were designed or inspired. If D&D were a system more like Star Wars Saga Edition, then I could get behind the idea of making him a combination of different classes, because Saga's as close to a classless d20 system that you're gonna find and you only have the five to work with.

But when you have an entire class designed pretty much specifically to be, among others, Zorro...it just doesn't feel right.

Yeah, no. Merlin is a half-incubus warlock (in the newer versions of the legend) and a Druid in the old one. Conan is a rogue more than he is a barbarian, and the Samurai does not give you the Improvised Weapon features to be able to outfight someone using only an oar.
Actually, the Samurai class is pretty bad for Samurai in general. What kind of self-respecting Samurai fights with two weapons?

Let's face it, author intent has very little meaning when it comes to what the classes are good at. Like a Fighter being a leader, to use the example given earlier in this thread.

[Juntao112]

Yeah...no. Merlin is a wizard, Conan is a barbarian, Roland Deschain is a gunslinger, Miyamoto Musashi was a samurai, and Zorro is a swashbuckler. There is a difference between making a random PC or NPC, and trying to stat out iconic characters around which entire classes were designed or inspired.
Would you stat out Sir Thomas Sean Connery Kt. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_connery), as a Knight, or as an Expert with ranks in Perform: Acting?


But when you have an entire class designed pretty much specifically to be, among others, Zorro...it just doesn't feel right.

I agree, the Swashbuckler class just doesn't feel right for Zorro.

[Gemini476]

Would you stat out Sir Thomas Sean Connery Kt. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_connery), as a Knight, or as an Expert with ranks in Perform: Acting?
Technically, Aristocrat could work.
Or Factotum.

[Rogue Shadows]

Would you stat out Sir Thomas Sean Connery Kt. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_connery), as a Knight, or as an Expert with ranks in Perform: Acting?

Nice try, but the knight class wasn't made specifically to portray such as Connery, while the Swashbuckler was made to portray such as Zorro.

I would stat King Arthur as a knight. And Galahad, Gawain, Lancelot...


Conan is a rogue more than he is a barbarian

We have not been reading the same Howard stories, you and I. I won't deny that he's most certainly a multiclass Barbarian/Rogue, but he definitely favors Barbarian over Rogue.


Actually, the Samurai class is pretty bad for Samurai in general. What kind of self-respecting Samurai fights with two weapons?

To be honest I was thinking of either the Oriental Adventures samurai or the Pathfinder samurai, the latter of which can achieve proficiency with an oar by way of a single feat, and the former of which can achieve proficiency with an oar by way of a single feat that been back-ported from Pathfinder; and in either case that's discounting the possibility that Musashi was just damn good enough to simply soak up the -4 nonproficiency penalty.

I note with varying degrees of interest that you have nothing to say about Roland.


Let's face it, author intent has very little meaning when it comes to what the classes are good at. Like a Fighter being a leader, to use the example given earlier in this thread.

You know, I'm looking over my Player's Handbook right now, and I'm not actually seeing where it's suggested that fighters lead the party. Here is a reprint of their Role:

In most adventuring parties, the fighter serves as a melee combatant, charging into the fray while his comrades support him with spells, ranged attacks, and other effects. Fighters who favor ranged combat can prove very deadly, though without other melee support, they can find themselves in front-line combat more often than they might prefer.

Their Other Classes section details that the fighter is supposed to be on the front lines protecting the more vulnerable members of the party - the sorcerer and wizard, for example.

Not sure where the idea that they were supposed to be leaders comes from, but it isn't the Player's Handbook, unless you're reading entirely too much into the line that a bandit king is an example of a fighter.

For that matter, there's no mention of them serving as effective guards, either...

[Vhaidara]

I would stat King Arthur as a knight. And Galahad, Gawain, Lancelot...


False. At least for Galahad and Lancelot, they are blatantly Paladins. Just like Mordred is a Blackguard.

[Juntao112]

Nice try, but the knight class wasn't made specifically to portray such as Connery, while the Swashbuckler was made to portray such as Zorro.
Give me the ocular proof.


I would stat King Arthur as a knight. And Galahad, Gawain, Lancelot...


False. At least for Galahad and Lancelot, they are blatantly Paladins. Just like Mordred is a Blackguard.

Knight's code (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=2):

The knight's code focuses on fair play: A victory achieved through pure skill is more difficult, and hence wins more glory, than one achieved through trickery or guile.

A knight does not gain a bonus on attack rolls when flanking. You still confer the benefi t of a flanking position to your ally, but you forgo your own +2 bonus on attack rolls. You can choose to keep the +2 bonus, but doing so violates your code of honor (see below).

A knight never strikes a flat-footed opponent. Instead, you allow your foe to ready himself before attacking.

A knight never deals lethal damage against a helpless foe. You can strike such a foe, but only with attacks that deal nonlethal damage.

Paladin Code of Conduct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm)


A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Scene: Guenevere has been arrested for adultery and sentenced to death. (http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/trt/trt25.htm)


So the Queen was led outside the gates, and her rich dress was taken off, while her lords and ladies wrung their hands in grief, and few men wore armour, for in that day it was held that the presence of mail-clad Knights made death more shameful. Now among those present was one sent by Sir Lancelot, and when he saw the Queen's dress unclasped, and the priest step forth to listen to her confession, he rode to warn Sir Lancelot that the hour had come. And suddenly there was heard a sound as of rushing horses, and Sir Lancelot dashed up to the fire, and all the Knights that stood around were slain, for few men wore armour. Sir Lancelot looked not where he struck, and Sir Gaheris and Sir Gareth were found in the thickest of the throng. At last he reached the Queen, and, throwing a mantle over her, he caught her on to his saddle and rode away with her. Right thankful was the Queen at being snatched from the fire, and her heart was grateful to Sir Lancelot, who took her to his Castle of Joyous Gard, and many noble Knights and Kings had fellowship with them.

After King Arthur had given judgment for the Queen to die he went back into his palace of Westminster, where men came and told him how Sir Lancelot had delivered her, and of the death of his Knights, and in especial of Sir Gaheris and Sir Gareth, and he swooned away from sorrow. 'Alas!' he cried, when he recovered from his swoon, 'alas! that a crown was ever on my head, for in these two days I have lost forty Knights and the fellowship of Sir Lancelot and his kinsmen, and never more will they be of my company. But I charge you that none tell Sir Gawaine of the death of his brothers, for I am sure that when he hears of Sir Gareth he will go out of his mind. Oh, why did Sir Lancelot slay them? for Sir Gareth loved Sir Lancelot more than any other man.'

'That is true,' answered some of the Knights, 'but Sir Lancelot saw not whom he smote, and therefore were they slain.'