How do I keep followers alive in midlevel combat?

[zabbarot]

I'm working on a Kobold War Weaver for a mid-op evil campaign. I really like the idea of combining Leadership and a few levels of Incantatrix so that I can have a cadre of kobolds follow my character and use aid other to metamagic the buffs I cast. I like the idea from a roleplay perspective just because of the description of kobolds in Races of Dragons. They come off as altruistic and incredibly teamwork oriented.

So my question is this: How do I keep them alive? The party is generally pretty strong and we have about 8 players that rotate in and out of games. Additionally each of us has a 'back up' character just in case. So the DM really has no qualms about bringing out the big guns. We are currently level 12 so my followers will be quite a bit behind.

[OldTrees1]

A 1 HD follower is unlikely to survive midlevel "big gun" combat without Persistent Delay Death or similar Damage Immunity.

However few opponents use Transdimensional attacks so placing them on the Ethereal plane might help.

[Xervous]

I'm assuming you're persisting buffs, because that's pretty much the only thing you should be doing with the incantatrix's third level ability.

Just stick the kobolds in a rope trick when you aren't using them.

Or perhaps something nicer like a tiny hut.

[zabbarot]

The kobold is a sorcerer so Delay Death is a bit hard to get but I'll see what else is close.

The ropetrick could work, but can only hold 8 creatures regardless of size and doesn't move. What I need is a clown car :smalltongue:

[(Un)Inspired]

Portable hole

[Kelb_Panthera]

How do you keep followers alive in midlevel combat? You don't. You keep them out of combat and have them perform support roles or you have them operate military hardware.

A couple kobolds in an apparatus of kwalish could be fun. The same in what is essentially a tank is better. A&EG has rules for vehicles. Use them.

[ericgrau]

Scatter on a 20 foot grid to avoid area of effect blasts. Not a one should be next to any party member. Then accept that some may die. But if foes waste an attack on kobolds instead of you, it's a win for the party as it will be way overkill at 1/3 to 1/2 of what could have taken out a PC. That's huge. For this reason the foes may avoid attacking the kobolds at all and you'll inadvertently keep them alive this way.

Don't take any into a dungeon, even etherealness means half die to magical traps. Stick them in an extradimensional space outside like magnificent mansion way off to the side where they are less like to be detect magicked. Probably fly-carried way up in the sky too because track, and behind clouds because see invisibility.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by zabbarot
So the DM really has no qualms about bringing out the big guns.

If this is the case, I'm afraid your followers will be incinerated in short order. Their life expectancy is nil.


Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera
How do you keep followers alive in midlevel combat? You don't. You keep them out of combat and have them perform support roles or you have them operate military hardware.

This is the absolute truth of it. Like a lot of us, I've learned from hard experience that followers can't and shouldn't be involved in their leader's combat.

Much, much the better for them to be in supporting roles. At most, observation and communication from some distant vantage point, or running errands or messages well away from the thick of things.

There might be some fringe benefit to a handful of followers who are customized for archery, taking shots from extreme range--but in-game, that would still be exposing them to swift retaliation, and for a player that could become a lot of extra work with very little benefit.

Now, I've been in a group where our DM really seemed to have it in for everyone's followers--I think he just thought it was funny that he could kill them so easily. Other DMs may approach it differently, but it's hard for me to see followers as anything but a painful liability.

[Captnq]

You don't.

You burn them like Paul Walker in a Porsche Carrera GT. You murder them for the slightest advantage. It's why they are called MINIONS.

Otherwise, keep them away from the fight. They are either expendable, or they aren't.

[Drachasor]

Rings Gates can be a good way to let someone far away take part in an encounter.

[Naanomi]

All of the followers are low level casters/warlocks/something? A 1d6 fear-causing Eldritch Blast every round isn't completely negligible, and they can do it from hundreds of feet away... or they can be sorcerers/wilders/whatever and be mobile Magic Missile (or equivalent) single shots before fleeing.

[Pickford]

Followers can be replaced, though it's easier if you're not known for killing them off. (1d4 months to replace, 1 year if you are personally to blame)

Followers are rarely effective in combat; instead they might be scouts, spies, messangers, errand runners, or guards.

If you wanted higher level NPC assistance, hirelings of higher levels can be...hired. Though they do get paid. The important thing to remember is...if they do get killed, you can probably keep the money you would have paid them.

[zabbarot]

Thanks for all your input. Most my followers will be mining, since that's what kobolds do, I've got to set up a new warren after all. I should be able to acquire quite a bit more than standard wealth to outfit any that I choose to take into combat so maybe that will help? I was really hoping for more ways to use teamwork.

Siege weapons aren't a bad idea, so as soon as we actually siege someplace (which might actually be soon) I'll keep it in mind. Staying scattered is good too. Combined with Naanomi's idea of making a bunch of them warlocks, they could probably manage to do a bit of damage(Eldritch Blast being ranged touch helps a lot). SR is the thing to watch out for on that and since right now we're conquering unprepared elves it shouldn't be too bad. Once they catch on it'll be messy though :P

Considering how quickly kobolds mature, they should be a replenishable resource once the warren is up and running, but I still don't want to have them dying needlessly left and right. Luckily my DM doesn't have it out for followers. So far I would say he has met out actions with appropriate response. We are starting a war after all.

Maybe I should just start them digging trenches and get ready for the inevitable elven retaliation. Kobolds have access to some cool stuff that should make them pretty scary in trenches.

[Pickford]

Thanks for all your input. Most my followers will be mining, since that's what kobolds do, I've got to set up a new warren after all. I should be able to acquire quite a bit more than standard wealth to outfit any that I choose to take into combat so maybe that will help? I was really hoping for more ways to use teamwork.

Siege weapons aren't a bad idea, so as soon as we actually siege someplace (which might actually be soon) I'll keep it in mind. Staying scattered is good too. Combined with Naanomi's idea of making a bunch of them warlocks, they could probably manage to do a bit of damage(Eldritch Blast being ranged touch helps a lot). SR is the thing to watch out for on that and since right now we're conquering unprepared elves it shouldn't be too bad. Once they catch on it'll be messy though :P

Considering how quickly kobolds mature, they should be a replenishable resource once the warren is up and running, but I still don't want to have them dying needlessly left and right. Luckily my DM doesn't have it out for followers. So far I would say he has met out actions with appropriate response. We are starting a war after all.

Maybe I should just start them digging trenches and get ready for the inevitable elven retaliation. Kobolds have access to some cool stuff that should make them pretty scary in trenches.

Yeah, followers are probably best off running away/looking for a tactical advantage. (i.e. they have ranged weapons and are behind a murder hole) rather than trying to go toe to toe.

[Brookshw]

Iirc indomitable will let them survive a hit. The pact spells could also help.

[Naanomi]

Wait, Kobolds? Dragonfire Adepts seems thematically appropriate; with Entangling Breath; use the 'slight build' variant and they will be able to hide very well even without significant ranks... heck a few dozen of those could dominate a sizable force I think

[zabbarot]

Wait, Kobolds? Dragonfire Adepts seems thematically appropriate; with Entangling Breath; use the 'slight build' variant and they will be able to hide very well even without significant ranks... heck a few dozen of those could dominate a sizable force I think

Ha, that's awesome. I hadn't actually looked at the class until now. Definitely more thematic. Now I've got flamethrowers in the trenches :smalltongue:

Maybe I should change the thread title to stronghold defense and carry on in that direction.