low level stealthy psion?

[CyberThread]

what are the best options for a psion wanting to be stealthy?

Most guides seem to not touch on this option much, is that because it simply is not an option for the class unlike a wizard or cleric.

[Psyren]

Dip rogue, suppress your displays. Enter Shadowmind at some point (preferably with the adaptation, because Cloud Mind sucks.)

Or just be a Psyrogue.

[infomatic]

What do you mean by stealthy? What books are allowed? And how low-level?

Psionics don't have the same sort of stealthy powers as arcane spells do, so you're a bit more limited there. (Unless, as noted, you just go PsyRogue).

Ranger1/PsionX/SlayerX With Able Learner also works fine.

At low level, racial choice can help some.


Changeling
Deep Imaskari (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b) (+4 hide underground, +2 Int/-2Dex, Low-light vision)
Vanara (OA monkey people): +2 Int, Wis, -2 Str (diff. in Dragon), +2Hide/MS)


Or

Duergar (LA +1) -- They get Psionic Invisibility 1/day (more w/feat) which is not replicated as a separate power — it's actual Invisibility, as good as arcane, not that Cloud Mind nonsense.

For Discipline, Egoist is probably best (for Chameleon and Metamorphosis)

[Urpriest]

Psions have difficulty actually being invisible, but they do have other options.

Chameleon is a 2nd level Egoist power that gives +10 to Hide for 10 min/level. Concealing Amorpha (2nd level as well, general list) grants Concealment, which is one of the requirements for hiding, the other being unobserved.

Edit: If you pick it up with a Psychic Rogue level or a feat, Compression is quite nice for stealth.

[Pickford]

Telepath. Psicrystal with the Coward personality (+3 to hide checks) or Sneaky (+3 to move silently checks); Cloud Mind/Cloud Mind, Mass

Soulknife gets hide and move silently as class skills.

[Rubik]

Telepath. Psicrystal with the Coward personality (+3 to hide checks) or Sneaky (+3 to move silently checks); Cloud Mind/Cloud Mind, Mass

Soulknife gets hide and move silently as class skills.Both versions of Cloud Mind really suck. You know that, right?

[Urpriest]

Both versions of Cloud Mind really suck. You know that, right?

They are hilarious as a substitute for Invisibility on walls, though.

Back when I ran a psionic tippyverse game, the walls of an aquarium tank were adamantine, but they cast Cloud Mind on anyone who viewed them so that they were effectively transparent. Don't think about that one too hard...

[Psyren]

Indeed - Control Light/Sound are much better for a sneaky manifester than Cloud Mind.

[Rubik]

Back when I ran a psionic tippyverse game, the walls of an aquarium tank were adamantine, but they cast Cloud Mind on anyone who viewed them so that they were effectively transparent. Don't think about that one too hard...I don't think that works. You ignore the fact that the walls are there, rather than being able to see through them. It's like you're walking with your eyes closed into a wall. You don't realize it's there, so you walk right into it. That, or you just walk around it without realizing why you're taking a circuitous route.

[Psyren]

I think it would make them ignore the trap in the wall, rather than the wall itself. The wall is not manifesting the power, the trap is.

[Rubik]

I think it would make them ignore the trap in the wall, rather than the wall itself. The wall is not manifesting the power, the trap is.But if the wall is the trap...

Also, as with anything else, a StP erudite works here. No Light + ring of the darkhidden = win, as far as stealth goes. Just avoid magical light sources.

[Maginomicon]

If you want stealth a la rogue, you're basically out of luck aside from a Psychic Rogue and the True Thief variant Lurk. If by stealth you mean no one knows he's a psion, that's arguably inherent to psionics as a whole through the "Dispense with Display" manifesting option (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297907), especially if you take a feat like Arcane Focus so that you can have two automatic-successes to dispense with displays.

[Urpriest]

I don't think that works. You ignore the fact that the walls are there, rather than being able to see through them. It's like you're walking with your eyes closed into a wall. You don't realize it's there, so you walk right into it. That, or you just walk around it without realizing why you're taking a circuitous route.

That would be logical, but the power explicitly makes you invisible to the target. RAW, how the power makes you invisible is irrelevant, you're still invisible.


I think it would make them ignore the trap in the wall, rather than the wall itself. The wall is not manifesting the power, the trap is.


But if the wall is the trap...


This. It's one big magic item.

But yeah, don't use Cloud Mind for actual stealth. Compression+Chameleon is much nicer.

[Psyren]

It's inefficient though unless you've made the DC impossible. Because then you'll have them making the save sometimes and that section of wall being opaque while the rest is transparent. And everybody will save differently and thus perceive different sections of wall. And someone saying "no, I see a wall here too" grants everyone another save for that section and...

And even if the DC is impossible you've still got some people rolling 20s and then being able to grant additional saves to their allies etc. Not to mention any necropolitans, psicrystals or other troublesome folks who may be walking by the wall. Or if the wall doesn't have line of effect... it's just a giant mess, you're better off with an illusion.

[Urpriest]

It's inefficient though unless you've made the DC impossible. Because then you'll have them making the save sometimes and that section of wall being opaque while the rest is transparent. And everybody will save differently and thus perceive different sections of wall. And someone saying "no, I see a wall here too" grants everyone another save for that section and...

And even if the DC is impossible you've still got some people rolling 20s and then being able to grant additional saves to their allies etc. Not to mention any necropolitans, psicrystals or other troublesome folks who may be walking by the wall. Or if the wall doesn't have line of effect... it's just a giant mess, you're better off with an illusion.

People could just voluntarily fail the save. But yes, it's rather...circuitous.:smallbiggrin:

[Pickford]

Both versions of Cloud Mind really suck. You know that, right?

What's wrong with cloud mind? It has some advantages over just invisibility and some disadvantages.

[Psyren]

What's wrong with cloud mind? It has some advantages over just invisibility and some disadvantages.

There's a lot that makes it generally weak (save negates, mind-affecting, PR yes, close range, individual targeting etc.) but the worst aspect of it is that you have to know someone is there for it to be any good. The nice thing about invisibility is that you can just throw it on and not worry (or at least worry less) about observers that might stumble across you or be patrolling the area. CM requires that you know they're there in advance and be able to target them before they can raise the alarm - which generally requires you to be already stealthy, so it's not really helping you become any stealthier in that scenario in the first place. Another weakness compared to invisibility is that it is useless at keeping you from being scryed on.

This is why Control Light/Sound are better; making it dark and quiet around you doesn't require that you know who might be watching.