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View Full Version : Pulling a Henderson - EXPERT MODE!



Silus
2014-01-01, 02:52 AM
Ok, typing this from my phone, so I'll make this brief.

For...reasons, I need to heavily derail the campaign I'm in (check my thread in the Other RPG subforum for details).

Problem is, the campaign is more or less a sandbox in a premade setting (Palladium Fantasy).

So I need advice on how to derail a campaign with no real plot. Best case, I want the DM to get as big of a headache as he gave me when I was DMing.:smallamused:

Edit: And in general how would one derail a game with no "rails"? Consider this a general thought experiment.

The Oni
2014-01-01, 03:08 AM
First of all, you can't Henderson on Expert Mode. Henderson won a game deliberately designed not to be won; that's as expert as it gets, and everything else is child's play.

Second of all, you really, really need to talk to your group before you go derailing campaigns. You guys seem to play more politics than King's Landing.

If the DM doesn't yet have a plan...I guess, do stuff until the DM starts rolling his eyes. If it looks like he really, really doesn't want you to do it, but there's no in-game reason for you not to do it, do it.

Silus
2014-01-01, 03:29 AM
First of all, you can't Henderson on Expert Mode. Henderson won a game deliberately designed not to be won; that's as expert as it gets, and everything else is child's play.

Second of all, you really, really need to talk to your group before you go derailing campaigns. You guys seem to play more politics than King's Landing.

If the DM doesn't yet have a plan...I guess, do stuff until the DM starts rolling his eyes. If it looks like he really, really doesn't want you to do it, but there's no in-game reason for you not to do it, do it.

Sorry, meant "Expert Mode" in that derailing a sandbox game would be vastly harder than a campaign with a defined plot.

And I'm going to talk with my group as soon as I can, but I'd also like to have a backup plan just in case. Also, I could easily see this as a simple thought experiment or...something. Like how does one derail a game with no rails?

Kelb_Panthera
2014-01-01, 03:34 AM
Sorry, meant "Expert Mode" in that derailing a sandbox game would be vastly harder than a campaign with a defined plot.

And I'm going to talk with my group as soon as I can, but I'd also like to have a backup plan just in case. Also, I could easily see this as a simple thought experiment or...something. Like how does one derail a game with no rails?

I don't necessarily think this is a good idea but I have a thought.


To derail a game that's not on the rails in the first place, you really have to pull out all the stops when it comes to finding off-the-wall bizarre things to do.

For example; If I was going to do this in a sandbox game of D&D 3.5, not that I would, I'd be looking into everything I could think of to try and drag the far realm into the material or vice-versa. Nothing gets things going wackier than pulling everything that should not be and everything that is into the same space.

I have no idea how Palladium Fantasy does things but stuff like ^ that might make a starting point.

Silus
2014-01-01, 03:42 AM
I don't necessarily think this is a good idea but I have a thought.

To derail a game that's not on the rails in the first place, you really have to pull out all the stops when it comes to finding off-the-wall bizarre things to do.

For example; If I was going to do this in a sandbox game of D&D 3.5, not that I would, I'd be looking into everything I could think of to try and drag the far realm into the material or vice-versa. Nothing gets things going wackier than pulling everything that should not be and everything that is into the same space.

I have no idea how Palladium Fantasy does things but stuff like ^ that might make a starting point.

Alas, Pal-Fant is pretty..."meh" on the whole Far Realm type thing. It has more alike with a planar hopping 3.5 campaign.

The only thing that springs to mind (Thanks to your example) is to deliberately split the party in an excessive sense. The short of it, my character's got some...personal stuff involving an evil God she owes a debt to and a curse she needs to break on herself (neither are related to each other), and helping her out is very likely low on the totem pole for most of the party. So just wander off on my own to solve my personal quests and have the DM try to plan on two fronts. :smallconfused:

Sith_Happens
2014-01-01, 03:45 AM
Kill and/or sleep with everyone and everything. Possibly in that order.

The Oni
2014-01-01, 03:56 AM
Better yet, don't kill everything, just kill every friendly NPC that looks important. If the DM complains about this, tell him the NPC looked super suspicious, and stare at him like it was the most obvious thing in the world.

Also, take your villains out non-lethally so they can still come after you. And give them a damn good reason to come after you.

Kelb_Panthera
2014-01-01, 04:02 AM
Alas, Pal-Fant is pretty..."meh" on the whole Far Realm type thing. It has more alike with a planar hopping 3.5 campaign.

The only thing that springs to mind (Thanks to your example) is to deliberately split the party in an excessive sense. The short of it, my character's got some...personal stuff involving an evil God she owes a debt to and a curse she needs to break on herself (neither are related to each other), and helping her out is very likely low on the totem pole for most of the party. So just wander off on my own to solve my personal quests and have the DM try to plan on two fronts. :smallconfused:

That's far more likely to get you simply ignored than to actually cause the kind of mayhem you're looking for.

I didn't really think the far realm thing was doable. I was just using it as an example of something that the DM couldn't possibly have planned for beforehand and that's completely absurd. Those are the qualities you're looking for in a plot to derail the non-plot; high levels of absurdity and unpredictability.

A more mundane example would be to take great offense at the idea that the nobility are better than the common folk in a political intrigue setup and act on that offense. Vigorously. Just be careful you don't fall into the whole fight for equality for all people angle. That's a fairly solid game plot that might make for an interesting campaign to DM.

Jacob.Tyr
2014-01-01, 04:05 AM
If it's a sandbox shouldn't you be doing what you want to anyway? Just do that.

Scow2
2014-01-01, 04:06 AM
See how many times you can make the mind mage's player's characters die in campaign-derailing fashions. You need to kill X number of people to sate the evil god? Have the Mind-mage player roll up X+1 characters.

The Oni
2014-01-01, 04:11 AM
Pull a Constantine - Promise your soul to as many evil entities as you can find, then kill yourself at the most inconvenient time. Suddenly a bunch of Big Bads show up and fight for the right to claim it (likely killing the whole party in the process), or maybe just revive you so they don't have to.

Silus
2014-01-01, 04:14 AM
If it's a sandbox shouldn't you be doing what you want to anyway? Just do that.

You'd think that, but that's not really the case.

Short rundown, the Mind-Mage that Scow2 mentioned is the rest of the party's "employer", if only for the sake of getting the party together. My character is technically a "Mercenary Warrior" but is built as a hunter/trapper and general out-doors person (Built with a Monster Hunter kinda thing in mind). I'd leave the Mind-Mage's employ if the DM didn't keep harping on the whole "You're a mercenary, mercenaries are supposed to honor their contracts" thing despite me just using the Mercenary Warrior class as a framework for the character that I wanted to play.

So the DM is pretty much forcing me (it seems) to work with this manipulative jerk.

:smallannoyed:

And yes, I've been told several times that I A) need to talk with the group and/or B) need to ditch the group.

BeerMug Paladin
2014-01-01, 04:15 AM
Have your characters write up some game books and whittle some dice. Develop and playtest some pen and paper roleplaying game and sell it around. In character.

Alternatively, you could sell your spellcasting services in order to do mundane tasks that would help people doing ordinary jobs. A flight spell and a strength spell would be awesome for construction, for example.

mucat
2014-01-01, 10:24 AM
And yes, I've been told several times that I A) need to talk with the group and/or B) need to ditch the group.
And the people telling you that are right. Seriously, the kind of things you're talking about --

to deliberately split the party in an excessive sense...
[snip]
...So just wander off on my own to solve my personal quests and have the DM try to plan on two fronts.
for example -- do not read like "let's derail the GM's plans and turn the game into a loony maelstrom of hilarity that everyone will laugh about for years." They read like "let's make sure that no one at the table is having fun, because I've got a grudge against one guy."

Kaveman26
2014-01-01, 11:08 AM
You are looking at this all wrong. If you want to derail a sandbox campaign then you need to lay some track and force everyone on it. You need to force a railroad and coerce everyone onto that track kicking and screaming.

If you run into a tavern at some point you make everyone stay there or return there no matter the cost.

Silus
2014-01-01, 12:26 PM
And the people telling you that are right. Seriously, the kind of things you're talking about --

for example -- do not read like "let's derail the GM's plans and turn the game into a loony maelstrom of hilarity that everyone will laugh about for years." They read like "let's make sure that no one at the table is having fun, because I've got a grudge against one guy."

Yeah, I know it's the wrong way to go about it :smallfrown:

I'm just angry, frustrated and bitter towards them and haven't gotten the chance to talk this stuff through with them yet.

AuraTwilight
2014-01-01, 02:01 PM
Ignore literally every plot hook. "I don't know, guys, that sounds pretty dangerous. Our whittling business is pretty great so let's just sit this out."

Alroy_Kamenwati
2014-01-01, 02:16 PM
Nuke your party with fire and then nuke the people you are with. Also if you're unhappy then leave after the next campaign and find a better group. If you go to college then make a Facebook group or search for people here or go to a game store. If you lived in Virginia Beach I'd invite you to sit in with my pals, maybe get them to talk to someone new :smallannoyed:

Kid Jake
2014-01-01, 02:28 PM
You are looking at this all wrong. If you want to derail a sandbox campaign then you need to lay some track and force everyone on it. You need to force a railroad and coerce everyone onto that track kicking and screaming.

If you run into a tavern at some point you make everyone stay there or return there no matter the cost.

I was going to suggest this, but Kaveman beat me to it. Find a reason for the whole party to stay in one place for an extended period of time; preferably the most boring place you've been to. Maybe you're trying to run a business, maybe you're trying to stage a coup on the local lord; doesn't really matter. Just get them into it, the DM included, until it actually looks like a plot's coming together...

THEN you find a reason to go to the other side of the world (Ohs noes you guys, I just realized we can't overthrow Baron Expendable until we've got more men. The rebels we've rallied can hold down things here until we recruit more mercenaries from the ancient kingdom of Fighterland.) and then once you get to your next location start the same thing only in reverse. Fighterland's got plenty of fighters, but a dire lack of four star restaurants; now's your chance to put those Craft: Pastry ranks to use and really make a difference!

Justify it by saying you need more gold for mercenaries. If you're dragged/herded back to your little revolution then congrats! You've got their hopes up and you're almost there. Once you're back in Baron Expendable's land you just immediately warn him of the coming revolution (make sure to name your accomplices!) and offer him the services of the mercenaries you've hired, citing a change of heart and a new and abiding respect for law and order.

Radar
2014-01-01, 02:52 PM
From a purely theoretical standpoint, if there are no rails to escape, there are still a few other things left: the tone of the campaign and the game world itself. Both can be shifted, twisted, and blown sky-high if you dare. The former is quite obviously a matter of social efforts, the latter is dependent on the campaign world. If you were playing in Forgotten Realms, it would be enough to push the magic to its natural conclusion and the whole medieval stasis crumbles, old empires fall and the world as you knew it is gone - replaced by whatever you set your mind to. I don't know Palladium Fantasy, so I can't be specific, but seek cracks in internal consistency of the setting and push on them hard enough to make them spread.

If done properly, it won't destroy the game itself - it will just remake it into something else, maybe even greater then the original concept.

The Oni
2014-01-01, 03:23 PM
...Or, the best plan ever: Stop acting like a friggin' three year old.

The more I think about it the more my initial conclusion rings true. Honestly, if you have to *ask* for ways to derail your buddy's campaign, you're letting some people you've got beef with rent space in your head for far too much of your day.

mucat
2014-01-01, 03:34 PM
...Or, the best plan ever: Stop acting like a friggin' three year old.

The more I think about it the more my initial conclusion rings true. Honestly, if you have to *ask* for ways to derail your buddy's campaign, you're letting some people you've got beef with rent space in your head for far too much of your day.
To be fair, the OP has now said that he should talk to the group about what's bothering him, rather than derailing the campaign.

Silus
2014-01-01, 03:53 PM
To be fair, the OP has now said that he should talk to the group about what's bothering him, rather than derailing the campaign.

Aye. The group's not met for about three weeks (or at least the whole group) so it's given me time to stew and internally rage about the situation. I tend to plot, plan and scheme during gaming downtime if there's nothing else to do.

First option I'm going with is voicing my grievances with the group as a whole. Derailing comes somewhere after PVP (which comes after trying to just deal with the whole hazing thing).

Alroy_Kamenwati
2014-01-01, 03:56 PM
To be fair, the OP has now said that he should talk to the group about what's bothering him, rather than derailing the campaign.

But...burning them :frown:

Kelb_Panthera
2014-01-01, 07:13 PM
Hey, I'm definitely of the same opinion as those saying that the OP should talk things out if they can but if you're going to do it anyway you might as well do it right.

If you can't burn the DM's script then the next best thing is to burn the world around you. Bring everything crashing down around you. Don't kid yourself though. You're gonna get crushed too. Even old man Henderson didn't make it in the end.

The Grue
2014-01-01, 07:33 PM
You'd think that, but that's not really the case.

Short rundown, the Mind-Mage that Scow2 mentioned is the rest of the party's "employer", if only for the sake of getting the party together. My character is technically a "Mercenary Warrior" but is built as a hunter/trapper and general out-doors person (Built with a Monster Hunter kinda thing in mind). I'd leave the Mind-Mage's employ if the DM didn't keep harping on the whole "You're a mercenary, mercenaries are supposed to honor their contracts" thing despite me just using the Mercenary Warrior class as a framework for the character that I wanted to play.

So the DM is pretty much forcing me (it seems) to work with this manipulative jerk.

:smallannoyed:

And yes, I've been told several times that I A) need to talk with the group and/or B) need to ditch the group.

Well I can see a place to start. What are the specific terms of your character's "contract"?

Jacob.Tyr
2014-01-01, 07:47 PM
Wait you're being railroaded by another player character, who uses mind control magic and some bull**** contract? Kill that ****er in his sleep.

Silus
2014-01-01, 08:44 PM
Well I can see a place to start. What are the specific terms of your character's "contract"?

Basic merc work. Protect the "boss" and I get a share of the profits and such. The only thing that keeps me from straight up walking out on the contract (Character is a tribal hunter from the southern jungles) is the DM pretty much playing my character for me by saying that a mercenary (which my character is not despite using the Mercenary Warrior class as a framework) would never walk out on a contract. She's more "French Hunter/Trapper" than "Hessian Soldier". The DM does not seem to get that.


Wait you're being railroaded by another player character, who uses mind control magic and some bull**** contract? Kill that ****er in his sleep.

A buddy and I were brainstorming that a while back. Problems are as follows:
1) Sixth Sense alerts him of planned attacks in a Spidy-sense way.
2) Super Telekinesis allows him to literally pick up up to 600lbs of anything and toss it. Lots of damage.
3) He meditates for 4 hours a night and is fully aware of his surroundings while doing so.

Basic strategy would be ambushing him or just not helping him should he get jumped by something. And despite my character having Telekinesis (rolled minor psychic), I've been told that I cannot garrote him from a hidden position 60ft away by applying (and this is a rough estimate as I don't have my character sheet on me) 140lb of force on a durable necklace made of snare cord (that I'd give him as a "gift" to hold his merchant's badge so it won't get lost or something). According to Google, it takes 33 lbs of force to sever a trachea. I'd be applying 4.24 times that in the space of ~3 seconds. But apparently I'm not allowed to decapitate him like that due to wording of "Telekinesis". :smallannoyed:

TheDarkDM
2014-01-01, 08:48 PM
Convince him that it would be a great idea to do some dungeon delving, then lock him inside.

Then collapse the entrance.

Then set it on fire.

*edit*
That, or poison. That has some poetry,given your first session.

Alroy_Kamenwati
2014-01-01, 08:50 PM
Basic merc work. Protect the "boss" and I get a share of the profits and such. The only thing that keeps me from straight up walking out on the contract (Character is a tribal hunter from the southern jungles) is the DM pretty much playing my character for me by saying that a mercenary (which my character is not despite using the Mercenary Warrior class as a framework) would never walk out on a contract. She's more "French Hunter/Trapper" than "Hessian Soldier". The DM does not seem to get that.



A buddy and I were brainstorming that a while back. Problems are as follows:
1) Sixth Sense alerts him of planned attacks in a Spidy-sense way.
2) Super Telekinesis allows him to literally pick up up to 600lbs of anything and toss it. Lots of damage.
3) He meditates for 4 hours a night and is fully aware of his surroundings while doing so.

Step 1: Aquire Wizard
Step 2: Burn all the things
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Laugh maniacally

Silus
2014-01-01, 09:02 PM
That, or poison. That has some poetry,given your first session.

Amusingly enough, a buddy of mine rolled up an Assassin and is more than willing to help me off the Mind Mage.

Radar
2014-01-02, 07:09 AM
If the main problem is a mind mage yanking a short leash, then aside from offing him (preferable option), you can play evil geenie with his commands. Just make sure to balance it so that you never cross his word - just stomp away on the intent.

Lord Torath
2014-01-02, 09:47 AM
Well I can see a place to start. What are the specific terms of your character's "contract"?I'd like to follow up a bit more on this. You've mentioned that you are supposed to protect your boss. What are his responsibilities toward you? Has he violated the contract at all? If so, tell your DM to stuff it the next time he tries to play your character for you. See point 24 (http://home.earthlink.net/~duanevp/dnd/manifesto.htm). But also point 23.

Kadzar
2014-01-02, 01:13 PM
Basic merc work. Protect the "boss" and I get a share of the profits and such. The only thing that keeps me from straight up walking out on the contract (Character is a tribal hunter from the southern jungles) is the DM pretty much playing my character for me by saying that a mercenary (which my character is not despite using the Mercenary Warrior class as a framework) would never walk out on a contract. She's more "French Hunter/Trapper" than "Hessian Soldier". The DM does not seem to get that.
You could contact his enemies and offer to kill him if they beat his price. That's practically a textbook mercenary move.

nedz
2014-01-02, 02:40 PM
Basic merc work. Protect the "boss" and I get a share of the profits and such. The only thing that keeps me from straight up walking out on the contract (Character is a tribal hunter from the southern jungles) is the DM pretty much playing my character for me by saying that a mercenary (which my character is not despite using the Mercenary Warrior class as a framework) would never walk out on a contract. She's more "French Hunter/Trapper" than "Hessian Soldier". The DM does not seem to get that.

A buddy and I were brainstorming that a while back. Problems are as follows:
1) Sixth Sense alerts him of planned attacks in a Spidy-sense way.
2) Super Telekinesis allows him to literally pick up up to 600lbs of anything and toss it. Lots of damage.
3) He meditates for 4 hours a night and is fully aware of his surroundings while doing so.

This sounds more like a railroad than a sandbox, and a mary-sue DMPC too.

To do a Henderson you need to blow this mage up in a way that the DM doesn't see coming, so you have to make it a genuine accident. I suspect that the Mage would still survive somehow though; well Deus Ex Machina.

Radar
2014-01-02, 03:00 PM
This sounds more like a railroad than a sandbox, and a mary-sue DMPC too.

To do a Henderson you need to blow this mage up in a way that the DM doesn't see coming, so you have to make it a genuine accident. I suspect that the Mage would still survive somehow though; well Deus Ex Machina.
If I remember the tale correctly, Henderson was able to win by using the fluff information provided by the DM, so the point would be to find the limits on the mind mage powers and plan accordingly.

Demidos
2014-01-02, 03:01 PM
In addition to the above, hire a sniper to attack him every night. No sleep -->no spells -->no control.

ElenionAncalima
2014-01-02, 03:37 PM
Any time there a decision to be made, stop and think:

How do I think the DM expects me to act in this situation?

Then don't do that.

Does your DM expect you to go to the tavern to gather information? Go to the orhanage and start spreading rumors. Does he expect you to murder hobo those goblins? Take them home with you and try to teach them the true meaning of Christmas.

Silus
2014-01-02, 06:43 PM
This sounds more like a railroad than a sandbox, and a mary-sue DMPC too.

To do a Henderson you need to blow this mage up in a way that the DM doesn't see coming, so you have to make it a genuine accident. I suspect that the Mage would still survive somehow though; well Deus Ex Machina.

Actually the Mind Mage is a fellow PC. He just sorta defaults to the "leader" role when he's a PC. The idea is to work against HIM with the DM without said PC knowing.

Current idea, I think, is make a beeline for the city of Kaash (It's a Mos Eisley kinda city, corrupt cops and everything) and start doing good, helping refugees and the poor and spreading rumors of an evil manipulative psychic (The Mind Mage) who has a huge price on his head. Next time he comes back to the city, he'll (hopefully) get jumped by every cutthroat and corrupt guard (see: All of them) the second he walks through the gates.


You could contact his enemies and offer to kill him if they beat his price. That's practically a textbook mercenary move.

My character only gets paid a wage of 5g a day (Granted we've been on the road for like three months, but still) so beating the price should be easy.


I'd like to follow up a bit more on this. You've mentioned that you are supposed to protect your boss. What are his responsibilities toward you? Has he violated the contract at all? If so, tell your DM to stuff it the next time he tries to play your character for you. See point 24. But also point 23.

Honestly, the rough of it is basically I'm a hired sword and he's the expedition leader, I keep him alive and provide muscle and I get paid for it. The "out" of the contract that I'm gonna use to split the party is that the curse I'm under (A stubborn Rags curse that the Mind Mage has apparently tampered with OOC to "teach me a lesson" in a "helpful" way as opposed to a cruel way (More about it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319816))) does not allow for me to wear armor or clothing. The problem is as thus:

1) I'm a front line fighter. Armor in Palladium Fantasy isn't as crucial as it is in D&D and the like, but the mitigation it allows helps me keep in the fight longer. Also, my character's whole schtick is turning hides and carapaces and such into armor a la Monster Hunter.
2) We're currently in the mountains. In the winter. And any clothing I have turns to unusable rags within a week.

So currently, I'm pretty much useless and it would be in the best interests for both me (IC and OOC) and my party if I were to go try to break the curse so I'm a viable team member again. Anything to the tune of "Dude, you're fine" will be met with...probably disregard, or at most "I'd be fine if ONE OF YOU *glares at the Mind Mage* wasn't manipulating this curse to teach me some lesson. YOU guys did this, I'm trying to fix it."

nedz
2014-01-02, 07:14 PM
OK — that wasn't clear.

In that case: take control of your character's destiny.

Make the entirely reasonable demand that he lifts the curse or return to more agreeable clime. If he won't: leave and head out of the mountains. If he does: wait a while and then demand more money or go on strike the next time a fight comes up. Also form a union amongst the other players first and rope them into the strike also.

Deffers
2014-01-02, 07:54 PM
Hrm. Do the laws of Thermodynamics work in Palladium? Because if so, I've got a way to get rid of this guy without setting off his spidey sense.

Simply put, persuade him as the hunter/tracker of the group to rest in a cave if you've found one. You'll be in the mountains, so this shouldn't be impossible. This cave needs to have certain qualities, but it should be pretty easy to spin them such that the PC would find those qualities desirable.

For one, it can't have any drafty walls. That is to say, it can only have one entrance, and it needs to not travel very deeply or have tiny vents or chutes. On top of that, the walls need to be pretty solid.

For this, you'll need some bellows, and thankfully you've already got the telekinesis to operate them. You see, you're going to burn all the oxygen inside the cave and choke a bitch. So you're going to find some dry, reedy, highly flammable twigs and branches to put on the front of the cave entrance as "concealement," yeah? Your bellows will just be part of your junk, which you'll put near the entrance-- maybe talk about how your character wants to take up smithing to counteract the curse a bit. You'll also want lantern oil. For lanterns. Right next to the kindling. Now, go outside of the cave to take a leak or set up watch or whatever, and as the dude meditates, set fire to the brambles. Use the bellows to feed them oxygen.

The brambles and twigs, you see, are a feint as well as a fuse. Sure, he can move those with his mind-- but the real target here are the oil flasks. THOSE should explode under the heat, spreading flammable fuel that is presently on fire throughout the cave-- which will use up all the oxygen in the cave as quickly as possible, which should make your troublesome mind mage just pass the hell out. Feel free to slit his throat and save everybody else at your leisure.

This is actually a variant of one of the items in Mr. Welch's list, which is the second-best known source of derailment fun. It's the one about orc's in a cave, a giant fire, and letting thermodynamics do the work-- only it should be faster.

Kelb_Panthera
2014-01-02, 09:02 PM
Wait, wait, wait.

Are you saying that -another player- is dictating the actions of -your- character?

Or are you saying that the DM is forcing you to do the bidding of another player?

Either way, smack the living bejeezus out of the both of them and tell them to stop playing your character and stick to their own.

Draken
2014-01-02, 09:12 PM
Become The Big Bad.

Get every ounce of resources you multiply it in whatever manner the system's flaws enable you to. Use your riches to hire minions, build superweapons (if you can grab something on par with a one-use Apocalypse From the Sky item; aka: Nation-Ending Grenade; procure them).

Turn the tables. Become what the DM (and maybe the other players) need to react to, as opposed to reacting to the DM. Take the reins of the world and drive the nations of men into the ground under your leaden boot. Usurp the DM.

Scow2
2014-01-02, 09:36 PM
Her problem isn't with the DMCarpet. She needs to become the Big Good, and defeat the mind-mage player (Who has IC ability to manipulate characters... and possibly find a way to blow up ALL mind-mages as well.

Draken
2014-01-02, 09:38 PM
Then use the minions and superweapons for good. It is not that big a leap to make.

The core of the idea is to shoot gold at anything that ticks you off.

Silus
2014-01-02, 10:00 PM
Wait, wait, wait.

Are you saying that -another player- is dictating the actions of -your- character?

Or are you saying that the DM is forcing you to do the bidding of another player?

Either way, smack the living bejeezus out of the both of them and tell them to stop playing your character and stick to their own.

Kinda? I don't know all the details, but here's what I DO know:

1) The DM presented myself and one of the other new-to-Palladium-and-this-DM player with a cursed sword. Under the impression that curses transferred via direct contact, I made it a point to NOT directly touch said sword. Turns out that the curse is transferred via simply possessing the sword.
2) The curse is a "Rags" curse which causes all worn and/or owned clothing to deteriorate into little more than rags over the course of a week. For armor, that means the durability drops by ~10 each day. The armor I had had about 30 durability (Or SDC or whatever it's called). The armor I had cost about 30g, and I had no source of constant income, so buying fresh armor each week was NOT going to happen.
3) The curse could only be transferred by willingly offering the cursed item to someone with no expectation of payment.
4) I had attempted to pass the sword off to a corrupt guard in a "Take my stuff, just don't hurt me" with the intention for the "just don't hurt me" to be a way to sell me willingly giving a lvl3 Fighter equivalent a sword that could be easily sold for 6-figures. The DM ruled that that little bit counted as asking for payment.
5) The DM later informed me that while I had done everything needed to break the curse, there was something keeping the curse from being properly broken. There was insinuation that it was someone in the party's doing. Through a not-so-difficult process of elimination, I came to the conclusion that it was the Mind Mage's player. There was also talk that this was happening (the curse not breaking) due to them wanting to teach me some sort of lesson in an actually learning sense as opposed to the harassment sense. The "reasoning" behind it can be found under the link in my last post. I, for whatever reason, have not looked under the spoiler tags.

As far as I can tell, the initial curse was by the DM, which I can deal with (It was, after all, my fault for picking up the cursed sword). However the screwing over after, and the continual persistence of the curse to harass my character (and me) for OOC reasons I cannot abide. The fact that the DM seems to be allowing and encouraging this harassment only makes it worse. Hence my wanting to tank this game in such a way that salvaging it is nigh impossible.

Edit: and I realize I didn't properly answer your question. My character is under contract, despite her being illiterate. I want her to break the contract and the DM is assuming that my character is a "proper" merc when I was just using the class as a framework. He's saying that a merc (not my character) would never break their contract. He's not forced anything yet, but he's heavily implying to me that that's the course of action he wants me to take--honoring the contract and not splitting the party to handle my character's personal stuff.

Jacob.Tyr
2014-01-02, 11:19 PM
I don't know how the system works, but I'm assuming there will be a way for you to figure out what is going on. Right now, though, you're using some metagame knowledge to figure out who did it. Stop that. If you really want to get your revenge, wait until it gets revealed in character and then you can go all "blood for the blood god" on things.

I'd still look for any IC reasons based on what you do know to kill the mind mage, though.

Kelb_Panthera
2014-01-03, 01:41 AM
Okay. Read the other thing and now understand the (incredibly screwed up) situation at hand.

Immediately kill the holy living crap out of the mind mage and tell the DM to STFU if he says "you wouldn't do that because <bull crap about class choice>." He's definitely got it coming and the DM is going back on his own word, that he wouldn't interfere with PvP, by not allowing it.

Also realize that by now that guard may well have passed the sword along to someone else and forget about him. Just find the sword. How hard can it be to find an unbreakable, artifact-level sword?

If, for whatever reason, the mind-mage isn't dead by the time you find the sword, ram it down his throat. He'll appreciate the irony.

icefractal
2014-01-03, 06:21 AM
I agree. This is not "PvP can happen", this is "PvP is happening, for no purpose other than jackassery". And I can't see what kind of "lesson" the Mind Mage is aiming for, except possibly "don't trust anybody, they could be a huge **** for no good reason."

So, sure, shank him. Just be aware that:
A) He will quite possibly whine to no end about how your character wouldn't do that and he was just playing his character and etc.
B) He may pull out some BS to prevent it, and the GM may roll over or even actively back him up.
C) This may not make him and/or the GM less obnoxious. Be prepared to leave the group if it continues sucking.

And re: IC knowledge.
The mind mage's actions are already either not IC (what benefit is there in making his own bodyguard less able to fight?), or the character is randomly spiteful to the point of self-defeating. So, fine - the OP's mercenary can act the same way.

Hangwind
2014-01-03, 07:01 AM
The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries

Read these. Learn these. Adapt them for fantasy and apply them. And remember, the only thing more dangerous to a mercenary is his employer. Any mercenary that survives is always on guard for employer betrayal. And perfectly willing to make an example of anyone foolish enough to betray him. THis is perfectly accurate historically.

How? Well, the mind mage is an adventurer, a hated class, and apparently a [REDACTED] jerk. He has made enemies. They have money. Get as many of them to pay you for his death as you can. Make a point of having learned not to trust outsiders. Kill every single character he rolls up as they show up. Do this again and again and again and... well, you get the idea. Best of all, pretty soon, so will he!:smallamused:

The Grue
2014-01-03, 08:27 AM
Basic merc work. Protect the "boss" and I get a share of the profits and such. The only thing that keeps me from straight up walking out on the contract (Character is a tribal hunter from the southern jungles) is the DM pretty much playing my character for me by saying that a mercenary (which my character is not despite using the Mercenary Warrior class as a framework) would never walk out on a contract. She's more "French Hunter/Trapper" than "Hessian Soldier". The DM does not seem to get that.


Hm. I see two options.

1) Demand a comprehensive written copy of the contract, OOC and IC, so that you can study it and familiarize yourself with its requirements. Justify it to the DM by pointing out past occasions when he's overridden you because "a mercenary wouldn't break his contract" or whatever; you obviously misunderstood the terms of the contract, so you want to be absolutely sure. Then find loopholes.

2) Take "protect the boss" to its furthest logical extreme. Demand that the "boss" retire from adventuring and open a restaurant or something similarly low-risk. When he refuses, tell him you can't guarantee his safety unless he retires from adventuring, and YOU NEED TO HONOUR THE TERMS OF YOUR CONTRACT. Leverage this into him breaking the contract for you. And then kill him.

Nuclear Option) Skip right to the end. Kill the boss. If the DM overrules you, start making combat rolls anyway and resolve it yourself. Assume the DMPC does nothing when the DM tells you that you aren't fighting him, keep making attack rolls. Declare the DMPC is dead and proceed with the game as though he were actually dead.

Or the DMPC actually engages your character, you probably lose by fiat and get to roll a new character.

EDIT: You could also play total passive-aggressive and, next time your DM tells you what your character would not do, sit back cross your arms and ask what it is the character should be doing. Endlessly.

Scow2
2014-01-03, 11:26 AM
Nuclear Option) Skip right to the end. Kill the boss. If the DM overrules you, start making combat rolls anyway and resolve it yourself. Assume the DMPC does nothing when the DM tells you that you aren't fighting him, keep making attack rolls. Declare the DMPC is dead and proceed with the game as though he were actually dead.

Or the DMPC actually engages your character, you probably lose by fiat and get to roll a new character.What DMPC?

The Grue
2014-01-04, 01:12 AM
What DMPC?

The mind-mage to whom the OP's character is employed. I infer that it's a DMPC, because the OP specifically mentioned wanting to leave his employ and go do something else, which is a bad thing to do with another player-character.

If the mind-mage the OP's character is employed by is in fact another character, then I'm curious why the OP wants to break away from the group. And whether they've tried talking to the mind-mage OOC and asking him to annul the contract.

The problem was described as one between a GM and a player. If said mage is in fact another PC, then it's an issue between two players and the GM is not and should not get involved. The GM's job is to adjudicate the system rules and run the rest of the world, not to play mediator between players either IC or OOC.

Sith_Happens
2014-01-04, 02:35 AM
It's a problem between a player and a player/GM conspiracy, actually.

Silus
2014-01-04, 02:45 AM
It's a problem between a player and a player/GM conspiracy, actually.

Actually, and this is pretty embarrassing, the whole thing turned out to be a pretty bad misunderstanding. I finally got the mess cleared up after the party voted to allow me to retire my character, mostly because they were tired of me obsessing over the curse that I had assumed was hazing/a prank. Turns out it was just really badly worded and the DM didn't catch it until, like, now.

What he said: "You did everything right to break the curse but it's not broken. There are likely other influences at work."
What he meant: "YOUR CHARACTER thinks that they did everything right to break the curse but it's not broken. There are likely other influences at work."
What I heard: "You did everything right to break the curse but it's not broken. There are likely other influences at work. Someone or something is playing you."

Alroy_Kamenwati
2014-01-04, 03:08 AM
I liked the conspiracy theories more:smallannoyed:

icefractal
2014-01-04, 06:12 AM
Well, it was another player being a ****, it's just that their dickish action happened previously as opposed to being an ongoing thing. But the fact that they kept the information hidden still counts as "mysterious jerkishness" at the very least.

Assuming the information in the other thread was correct, anyway.


Incidentally, this is why I'm not a big fan of PvP in campaigns, unless you're prepared to forget the plot and go full-out PvP arena. It often ends up pissing off the players rather than the characters, and that's not a good thing.

Kadzar
2014-01-04, 04:24 PM
Incidentally, this is why I'm not a big fan of PvP in campaigns, unless you're prepared to forget the plot and go full-out PvP arena. It often ends up pissing off the players rather than the characters, and that's not a good thing.Well, as The Tale of an Industrious Rogue (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/21445029/) demonstrated, such a thing can work very well as long as all players are informed OOC about everything the other PCs do IC and hostile actions made against one PC by another do not happen without that player's consent. It may not be what people normally think of when they hear "PvP", but it can be done without the players ending up hating each other and leads to much better stories than just someone repeated ganking another person's characters for nothing but OOC revenge.

The Oni
2014-01-05, 09:34 PM
Turns out it was just really badly worded and the DM didn't catch it until, like, now.

Dude, Poor Communication deals 10d6 damage to all party members; gotta be careful with that.

veti
2014-01-05, 10:09 PM
Retire.

Your character must have some sort of marketable skill other than "killing people and taking their stuff". If s/he has any decent social skills, then they could sell things or run a business. if they have crafting skills, they can make stuff. If they have knowledge skills, they can probably make a living either advising or educating people.

Settle down in some peaceful spot, doing whatever you can do to make a living, and get on with a peaceful life. The DM will assume you're planning something. See how long it takes him to twig that you're not.