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Hannes
2007-01-19, 05:27 PM
The ultimate speed master!

Hasty Fighter

HD:d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+0|+5 ft speed, Weapon Finesse

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+0|Precise attack +1d6, Two Weapon Fighting, bonus feat

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+1|Speed attack.

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+1|Two Weapon Defense, Opportunistic Tactician, +10ft speed

5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+1|Precise Attack +2d6, bonus feat, Improved Two Weapon Fighting

6th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+5|
+2|Speed attack, Dual Strike, Evasion

7th|
+7/+2|
+2|
+5|
+2|Superior Throw, Improved Two Weapon Defense, +15ft speed

8th|
+8/+3|
+2|
+6|
+2|Precise Attack +3d6, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, bonus feat.

9th|
+9/+4|
+3|
+6|
+3|Speed attack

10th|
+10/+5|
+3|
+7|
+3|Greater Two Weapon Defense, +20ft speed

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+3|
+7|
+3|Precise attack +4d6, bonus feat.

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+4|
+8|
+4|Speed attack, Improved Evasion

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+4|
+8|
+4|Whirlwind Attack, +25ft speed

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+4|
+9|
+4|Precise Attack +5d6, bonus feat

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+5|
+9|
+5|Speed Attack

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+10|
+5|Masterful Jump, +30ft speed

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+5|Precise Attack +6d6, bonus feat

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+6|Speed Attack

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+6|Fast Whirlwind Attack

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+6|Precise Attack +7d6, bonus feat, Intelligent avoidance.[/table]

Class skills: Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Tumble.

Skill points: 2+Int bonus. 1st level skill points 4(2+Int).

Proficiencies:the Hasty Fighter is proficient with all kinds of light weapons and light armor.

Bonus feat: the Hasty Fighter can use the bonus feat class ability to choose any of the following feats: Combat
Expertise, Quick Draw, Flick Of The Wrist, Improved Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Dodge, Mobility, Elusive Target,
Combat Reflexes, Improved Combat Reflexes, Greater Combat Reflexes, Improved Feint, Mighty Are Fallen, Raptor School,
Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Two-Weapon Attack Of Opportunity, Backstab, Agile Athlete.

Intelligent Avoidance: the Hasty Fighter adds his Intelligence bonus to his Armor class alongside with Dexterity

Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Opportunistic Tactician, Improved Two Weapon Fighting,
Improved Two Weapon Defense, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Defense, Dual Strike: at the appropriate
levels the Hasty Fighter is treated as having these feats. He only gains the benefits of these feats when wielding two
light weapons.

Precise Attack: the Hasty Fighter deals +Nd6 precision damage to enemies, but only while he is flanking them. This damage does not add to attacks made while using Speed Attack.

Speed Attack: the Hasty Fighter uses a full-round attack to use this ability. The Hasty Fighter does an usual attack, followed by a 5-foot step and an attack at a different enemy. The times you have gained this ability show how many extra 5-feet step and extra attacks you can do. The Precise Attack damage does not add to attacks made while using Speed Attack.

Superior Throw: after gaining this ability, the Hasty Fighter can throw a light weapon as if it were a throwing
weapon with a range increment of 20 ft.

Whirlwind Attack: see the feat. Only applies when using two light weapons. Upon gaining, if you already have this
feat, you gain Fast Whirlwind Attack.

Masterful Jump: upon using the jump skill, you are always treated as having the feat Run and having a running start.

Fast Whirlwind Attack: like Whirlwind Attack, only you can move after using Fast Whirlwind Attack.

NOTE: If at any time the Hasty Fighter wears medium or heavy armor, his abilities automatically stop working. When he removes the armor they are again usable.

Maryring
2007-01-19, 06:10 PM
Sounds decent, but you should be a bit more specific. What feats are "dex based feats". What exactly does multiple speed attacks do? I also suggest removing weapon focus and weapon specialization entirely. And add skills and skillpoints.

Kimi
2007-01-19, 07:00 PM
The first level seems a little too good to me. You should consider spreading out those benefits (maybe make the extra Dex bonus to AC scaled). And I think you should change the precise attack die to d6, since precision-based damage always uses d6 (at least, I can't think of any that don't).

Hannes
2007-01-19, 07:10 PM
Edited the table to make it more readable. Comments!

Hannes
2007-01-19, 07:12 PM
On the other hand, only while flanking, to a total of +7d8, plus fighters being underpowered ^^;;

Hario
2007-01-19, 07:57 PM
Ugh... mix this with a dervish build with wounding weapons.. begesus thats alot of dead things!

Roderick_BR
2007-01-19, 11:23 PM
Looks interesting. The kind of fast-movement fighter I was looking for. Move that bonus feat from the first level, or some other feature. He is getting too much on first level. Wait, what armors he can use, and what is his hit die? If he uses only light armor, and has a HD worse than d10, then it could work.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-01-20, 12:17 AM
And here I thought there'd be a base speed bonus or two. Being able to close distance to engage enemies quickly would be nice.

cferejohn
2007-01-20, 01:22 AM
Wait, what armors he can use, and what is his hit die? If he uses only light armor, and has a HD worse than d10, then it could work.

Well, you can't really stop him from using heavy armor, but you can make most of his abilities not work when wearing something heavier than light armor...

Hannes
2007-01-20, 02:22 AM
Argh! I forgot the proficiencies! Will add them. I was thinking of d10 HD first... But I think d8 is better.

Edit: hm... To get this to work he must always have someone to flank with... Maybe adding leadership to bonus feat list?

So basically he would be more of a supportive fighter, taking care of annoyingness surrounding the main fighter(s).

Hannes
2007-01-20, 08:06 AM
Bump the unnoticed thread!

magic8BALL
2007-01-20, 10:59 AM
Overpowered, Godly and Broken.

...at level 20, a fighter has 19 feats from his class.

This has:
- 16 feats (effectivly, probly more)
- +7d6 damage (while flanking, wich will be... always in a party)
- skill bonuses (the jumping)
- more than 5ft movement in a full round attack (bending rules)
- Improved Evasion (coupled with a good Ref save)
- Increased Base Speed

ooOOhh... d8 instead of d10 hit die? thats around 20 hp less.

ooOOhh... only light armor. Add the Amour bonus and Max Dex bonus off all the armor in the Players. All around +7, yes? You'd need to be a fool if you didnt have dex with this class anyway... so thats not disadvantage. In fact, you can get mithril armour, but nothing that increases the actuall armor bonus, so light (mithril medium) armor and high dex is an advantage.

Why not just take fighter, gain all the feats at appropriate levels, wear light armor, weild two sicles, use some extra feats to take Dash (+5 ft. movement speed) and leave it at that?

The_Cowinator
2007-01-20, 12:53 PM
Versitility Baby!!!

Plus two weapons...thats always a plus.

Maybe add a speed bonus for not wearing armor?

Valairn
2007-01-20, 01:15 PM
Overpowered, Godly and Broken.


If only Bears with Lasers would respond to this, I would feel much better....

I could say my peace, but I'm not nearly as eloquent!

Hannes
2007-01-20, 02:51 PM
Excuse me, but at 20th level, look at the spellcasters. The warriors surely need a boost. I'm willing to cut down the advancements for the lower levels, but I am quite sure melee classes need to be tough at higher levels. As for the precise attack, I might be willing to downgrade it to d6. This is my opinion. And instead of being such a pain in the place where the sun don't shine, point out things that you think would be better! This is what really ticks me off. You say lots of bad stuff about it, but you are not able to point out better things! Once again, you need something to be equal to spellcasters.

magic8BALL
2007-01-20, 08:38 PM
Well... spellcasters dont deal seven attacks at 1d6+7d8 plus weapon spec, strength and magic... (thats potentially fifty six dice of damage!) They only do 25d6 tops, around 1/2 of what your proposing.

[quote]You say lots of bad stuff about it, but you are not able to point out better things![quote]

Ok... sorry... usually I do point out the good things and offer suggestions. My bad.

An attempt at some constructive critisism:

- Somthing with full BAB and Evasion, I like! However, might I suggest gaining Evasion earlier, say around 6th level, and then Improved Evasion at around 12th. By spreading them out, you let them do what their suposed to (help the class for a few levels, then improve).

- Increased speed is good. Maybe spread this out a little too? +5ft at 1st, +10ft at 5th, +15ft at 10th, +20ft at 15th, +25 ft at 20th. This also allows for easier epic progresions later on.

- With the Two weapon fighting, instead of granting class the feats why not have somthing different, similar to a monks flurry:

Hasty Fighting (Ex): As a full attack attion, a fighter may fight hastily. When fighting hastily, a hasty fighter may make as maney attacks with his off hand as he can with his on hand. However, every attack takes a -2 penalty.

- Your speed attack is obsolite. Anyone can take a free 5ft step inbetween attacks in a full attack action. Suggestion:

Extra Step (Ex): At 7th level, the Hasty fighter may take up to take up to two free five foot steps during any round he is fighting hastily. He must make at least one attack inbetween these steps.
At level 14, this ability improves, allowing the Hasty fighter to take up to three free five foot steps during any round he is fighting hastily. Again, he must make at least one attack inbetween these steps.

- Perfect Grace is unbalancing. Pull it out. Why is it unbalancing? A monk adds two abilities to AC... yes but two different abilities, and monks cant wear ANY armor. With perfect grace, you can get a mith chain shirt's max dex to AC of +6 reads +12 to AC, plus the +4 plus magic the metal links provide...

The Bonus feat progression is suratic at best, and needless, as the class is also given a whole heap of feats for free. Pull the assignd feats and make the bonus feat progression 1 feat every third level, starting at level 2.

- So they fight furiously fast, yet still have time to land precises attacks? The flavour is all wrong there. Also, pricision based attacks should be d6's... yes I know the Order of the Bow uses d8's... but thats a broken prestigue class anyway. I'd pull the pricision. +7d8 for like 7 attacks...? thats like 49d8: heaps more than any spell caster under level 40.

The result:


Hasty Fighter
{table=head]Level|Base Attack[br]Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+0|Hasty Fighting, +5ft
2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+0|Bonus Feat
3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+1|-
4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+1|-
5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+1|+ 10ft, Bonus Feat
6th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+5|
+2|-
7th|
+7/+2|
+2|
+5|
+2|Extra Step
8th|
+8/+3|
+2|
+6|
+2|Bonus Feat
9th|
+9/+4|
+3|
+6|
+3|-
10th|
+10/+5|
+3|
+7|
+3|+15 ft
11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+3|
+7|
+3|Bonus Feat
12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+4|
+8|
+4|-
13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+4|
+8|
+4|-
14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+4|
+9|
+4|Extra Step, Bonus Feat
15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+5|
+9|
+5|+20 ft
16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+10|
+5|-
17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+5|Bonus Feat
18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+6|-
19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+6|-
20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+6|+25 ft, Bonus Feat[/table]



..and this still seems over powered to me. Remeber, every attack in the BAB colum is doubled, but reduced by 2...

Ultimatum479
2007-01-20, 10:20 PM
Speed Attack _isn't_ obsolete. You can do multiple Speed Attacks. Read it again.

Bit busy, don't have time to read it all in detail right now. From what I've seen, though, Perfect Grace is overpowered for a first-level ability. Everyone will want to take one level of this. Remember, the difference between this and adding a Wisdom or Intelligence bonus to AC like other classes do is that it's harder to have two good ability scores than it is to have one very good score.

I like Precise Attack, though. Just flanking instead of flanking _and_ flat-footed option is cool. I assume it doesn't count as Sneak Attack for the purposes of PrCs which require a certain amount of Sneak Attack dice, or for feats and such?

magic8BALL
2007-01-20, 11:04 PM
...yeah but "take a five foot step, continue doing a full attck, but at half damage" is just... obsolete. The "take another five foot step, at a third person and attack at half damage" is really... well... not that handy. I think I've given that a profound boost: up to three five foot steps in a round, all attacks full damage, as they should be.

Hannes
2007-01-21, 10:04 AM
First of all, some things must be said.

1. I apologize for my last post. I had been drinking a bit and I always tend to get easily pissed off then. If I insulted you, 8Ball, I apologize.

2. When making this class, I knew exactly what I meant. I understand your concerns, however I decided that having him get the extra damage while doing Speed Attack is quite wrong. And under full attack I meant that he has to choose the full attack action to do so, the attacks are usual attacks.

3. When something sounds too strong to you, run it through me. English is not my primary language and I might have written it wrong someways.

I will make modifications. This is my first round of homebrew and it's kinda hard to let my primary ideas go =)

EDIT: changed the table, made some corrections to the text etc.

Kalessin
2007-01-21, 01:11 PM
Quite nice. The only thing I will whine about is the choice of name. I would say maybe Speedkiller, or Swiftblade.

Hannes
2007-01-22, 02:54 PM
Well. The ride is bumpy so. Bump!

TimeWizard
2007-01-22, 10:54 PM
Great work here. Not to rain on the parade a bit, but monk's can move faster. Still, I see the speed strike idea as pretty cool.

Hannes
2007-01-22, 11:36 PM
I know monks can move faster, but it's not supposed to hustle at a speed of 27 metres per 3 seconds or so.

Ralasha
2007-01-23, 07:14 AM
Actually at first glance it does look overpowered. but In the end seems to balance out, however... The Bonus feats... not so many of them are needed... and Armor Restrictions, while bypassable, are a good idea as most character should be unable to buy Mithril armor until a level where it doesn't really matter anymore Since Ability Scores and items that Improve them would be available, and most classes similar to this one lose class abilities if wearing heavier armor. Monk/Ranger are good Examples, Monks lose abilities if wearing ANY armor, and Rangers lose Abilities if wearing Medium Armor.

Hannes
2007-01-24, 10:28 AM
Bumpity bump bump bump!

Ralasha
2007-01-26, 03:13 PM
Glad to be of help.

MeklorIlavator
2007-01-27, 12:54 PM
Wow, this is a nice class. I am putting this away as my fighter variant for the campaign.

Oh, and in pure damage lines, this class is more powerful than mages, but mages shouldn't be doing lots of direct damage. It should be stuff like cloud kill or shivering touch (If they do cheese, maybe a polymorph)

Hannes
2007-01-28, 02:27 PM
Well. I was thinking of making an Anti-Magic fighter after this one ^^;;;

Icewalker
2007-01-28, 11:58 PM
Huh, interesting class. I agree that fighters need a bump up, and that some parts of this class may be overpowered, especially Intelligent Avoidance. It could use a capstone, this is the kind of class that you could throw something cool in for.

Hannes
2007-02-01, 12:47 PM
Huh, interesting class. I agree that fighters need a bump up, and that some parts of this class may be overpowered, especially Intelligent Avoidance. It could use a capstone, this is the kind of class that you could throw something cool in for.

What does capstone mean?

magic8BALL
2007-02-01, 10:40 PM
It an ability people seem to think is essential for a class to have. It is gained at level 20, is the apifany of the class, usually either godly and broken (many of the homebrew capstones...) or just a pain in the neck witch breaks its own rules (the monk becoming an outsider... that can be raised "unlike most other outsiders"). I see no point for them. In the PHB, only the monk has this feature. Nothing else. Hell, the Rouge has a dead level at level 20. The problem with capstones is there's no room for epic levels. If a class has a clear progesion, extrapolating the next 10, 20, 30 levels is easy.

Ralasha
2007-02-07, 02:19 PM
*nods, understanding nothing*

Marius
2007-02-07, 02:26 PM
What does capstone mean?

Like a signature or ultimate class ability that is usually powerful enough to go all the way to the 20th level in a class.

magic8BALL
2007-02-08, 12:53 AM
You say it a lot better than I do...