How to wield big weapons?

[Legendxp]

I wanted know what ways you could increase the size of your weapons without taking a penalty to wielding them. A Goliath, for example, can wield weapons one size larger. There's also a feat somewhere that does the same thing. What else is out there for increasing weapon size?

[Stux]

Aside from making yourself big, there isn't really an efficient way to do it.

The reason is that if you wield a weapon a number of size categories larger than you, it shifts up the type of weapon that it counts as. Light becomes one-handed, one-handed becomes two-handed, and you can't wield two-handed weapons larger than you at all.

By which I mean a medium creature with a large longsword wields it as a two-handed weapon. A large longsword does 2d6 damage, which is the same as a greatsword except now you have oversized weapon penalties to deal with.

Another example: you could as a medium creature wield a huge dagger as a two-handed weapon (two size categories larger so light becomes two-handed), but a huge dagger only does 1d8 damage, so that's even worse compared to a medium greatsword than a large longsword is!

There may be some niche progressions where you slightly increase the damage, but it will be slight and it will not be worth the hoop jumping to get around the attack roll penalties. Honestly, just be a goliath and get someone to cast a permanent enlarge person so you can legitimately wield huge weapons. Much easier and more effective!

[Legendxp]

I was planning on being Diopsid, bugs that can wield two greatswords, and then taking the half-minotaur template (Thus increasing my size). I can then use the Monkey Grip feat to wield a weapon one size category larger. I think just being a goliath will work better though. I really wanted to be a big bug! :smallfrown:

[AMFV]

Aside from making yourself big, there isn't really an efficient way to do it.

The reason is that if you wield a weapon a number of size categories larger than you, it shifts up the type of weapon that it counts as. Light becomes one-handed, one-handed becomes two-handed, and you can't wield two-handed weapons larger than you at all.

By which I mean a medium creature with a large longsword wields it as a two-handed weapon. A large longsword does 2d6 damage, which is the same as a greatsword except now you have oversized weapon penalties to deal with.

Another example: you could as a medium creature wield a huge dagger as a two-handed weapon (two size categories larger so light becomes two-handed), but a huge dagger only does 1d8 damage, so that's even worse compared to a medium greatsword than a large longsword is!

There may be some niche progressions where you slightly increase the damage, but it will be slight and it will not be worth the hoop jumping to get around the attack roll penalties. Honestly, just be a goliath and get someone to cast a permanent enlarge person so you can legitimately wield huge weapons. Much easier and more effective!

It actually only works that way in 3.0, in 3.5 you can't just wield large weapons as a bigger counterpart to the smaller weapons.

It is possible to wield large weapons, but not really in any way that pays off, and not really without penalty, you can cancel the penalty with positive modifiers, but it'll probably still be there.


I was planning on being Diopsid, bugs that can wield two greatswords, and then taking the half-minotaur template (Thus increasing my size). I can then use the Monkey Grip feat to wield a weapon one size category larger. I think just being a goliath will work better though. I really wanted to be a big bug! :smallfrown:

A Diopsid can wield a larger weapon, so a half-minotaur diposid could wield a huge weapon and one with monkey grip could wield a gargantuan weapon at a -2 penalty.

[Stux]

Yeah, Monkey Grip or Goliath would be the way to go. By my reading they do not stack though.


It actually only works that way in 3.0, in 3.5 you can't just wield large weapons as a bigger counterpart to the smaller weapons.

It is possible to wield large weapons, but not really in any way that pays off, and not really without penalty, you can cancel the penalty with positive modifiers, but it'll probably still be there.

Afraid not. From the SRD:


The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

[Stux]

Apologies for the double post, it got confusing with things added in edits!


A Diopsid can wield a larger weapon, so a half-minotaur diposid could wield a huge weapon and one with monkey grip could wield a gargantuan weapon at a -2 penalty.

I would say by RAW the Diopsid/Goliath abilities do not stack with Monkey Grip. This is because Monkey Grip allows you to wield weapons larger than your size category, NOT larger than the largest weapon you can currently wield. As Diopids/Goliaths are Medium, this just means Monkey Grip lets them wield Large weapons, which they already can thanks to their racial traits.

[herrhauptmann]

Strongarm bracers and Heavy weapons. MiC and MoF rrespectively.

Monkey grip works, but its generally regarded as a trap. Dunno if it stacks with powerful build.

Jotunbrud wont help, doesnt affect weapon size.

[Uncle Pine]

I wanted know what ways you could increase the size of your weapons without taking a penalty to wielding them. A Goliath, for example, can wield weapons one size larger. There's also a feat somewhere that does the same thing. What else is out there for increasing weapon size?

The best combo I am aware of to wield Colossal weapon regardless of your size is Enlarge Weapon (Complete Scoundrel) + Sizing (MIC). First, cast Enlarge Weapon on your weapon of choice. That weapon is now one size larger than you and for the duration of the spell you do not take a penalty for wielding it regardless of his size. Use a swift action to turn your weapon into a Colossal weapon. Enjoy your newly 64+ ft. 8d6 greatsword until it lasts (1 round/level).
DISCLAIMER: This doesn't improve your reach at all. You might as well want to pimp your Str if you try to accomplish this with a Diminutive character, as your Colossal weapon will be pretty darn heavy.

[Stux]

Strongarm bracers and Heavy weapons. MiC and MoF rrespectively.

Monkey grip works, but its generally regarded as a trap. Dunno if it stacks with powerful build.

Jotunbrud wont help, doesnt affect weapon size.

Strongarm Bracers explicitly doesn't stack with the Goliath etc. racial traits (and I believe would not stack with Monkey Grip for the reasons I stated above), but it is a good way to do it without having to be a specific race!

Heavy Weapons are a good shout, if you can spare the feat for proficiency.

[AMFV]

Apologies for the double post, it got confusing with things added in edits!



I would say by RAW the Diopsid/Goliath abilities do not stack with Monkey Grip. This is because Monkey Grip allows you to wield weapons larger than your size category, NOT larger than the largest weapon you can currently wield. As Diopids/Goliaths are Medium, this just means Monkey Grip lets them wield Large weapons, which they already can thanks to their racial traits.

It stacks the other way, since stacking is done in the method that is beneficial to the player. The Diopsid ability is one size category larger, with no qualifiers, so you apply the Monkey grip first, then the Diopsid ability and it should work just fine.




Afraid not. From the SRD:

That doesn't interact with feats that allow you to wield weapons larger as though they weren't, so since that's a specific exception, though, that should be fine still.

[Legendxp]

This is what I'm assuming a half-minotaur diopsid looks like.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs40/i/2009/052/a/f/MegaKabuterimon_by_ChameleonBot.jpg

[Captnq]

Technically? by RAW?

There is no size limit on grafted weapon. Technically, if you put a crossbow bayonet on a light ballista, you could graft it to your hand and it now weighs nothing and can be fired (four rounds to load, but still).

It's now a natural weapon. All natural weapons are light weapons.

[Stux]

It stacks the other way, since stacking is done in the method that is beneficial to the player. The Diopsid ability is one size category larger, with no qualifiers, so you apply the Monkey grip first, then the Diopsid ability and it should work just fine.

I'm not convinced the order it applies makes any difference to be quite honest. Certainly not for Goliaths:

"A goliath can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty"

Monkey Grip does not make you larger, so both abilities only allow you to use Large weapons regardless of the order you apply them.

Though the wording is slightly different for Diopsids, with a bit more room for interpretation:

"The diopsid's extra limbs allow it to use weapons one size category larger than normal without penalty."

Normal for its size category, or normal for someone with a Monkey Grip feat? I'd say stacking it certainly isn't a cut and dry thing and something that should be run by the DM.


That doesn't interact with feats that allow you to wield weapons larger as though they weren't, so since that's a specific exception, though, that should be fine still.

True enough, if the feat/ability you are using specifically contradicts that rule then sure!

[AMFV]

I'm not convinced the order it applies makes any difference to be quite honest. Certainly not for Goliaths:

"A goliath can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty"

Monkey Grip does not make you larger, so both abilities only allow you to use Large weapons regardless of the order you apply them.

Though the wording is slightly different for Diopsids, with a bit more room for interpretation:

"The diopsid's extra limbs allow it to use weapons one size category larger than normal without penalty."

Normal for its size category, or normal for someone with a Monkey Grip feat? I'd say stacking it certainly isn't a cut and dry thing and something that should be run by the DM.


True it really depends on the order you apply the feats, and if spellcasters can apply CL boosting feats in any order they choose I don't see a fundamental problem with a melee person getting a fairly small damage boost that way.

[Captnq]

Oh. WSAs hornblade and balanced. Technically they stack, but you have to a halfling for hornblade, or small size, at least.

edit: Actually, I just read it again. It's only halfling and gnome. But, technically, you could be a Really Big Halfling.

[Legendxp]

I think the Strongarm Bracers would work because the diopsid ability that lets you wield larger weapons is the "extra arms" trait and not the "powerful build" trait.

[Stux]

True it really depends on the order you apply the feats, and if spellcasters can apply CL boosting feats in any order they choose I don't see a fundamental problem with a melee person getting a fairly small damage boost that way.

I'm not totally sure what feats (aside from Monkey Grip) you are referring to here, but agreed in so far as I wouldn't really have a problem with a minor damage boost for mundane characters.

It is a slightly dysfunctional area of the rules, a little vague at best. So just ask your DM.


I think the Strongarm Bracers would work because the diopsid ability that lets you wield larger weapons is the "extra arms" trait and not the "powerful build" trait.

Sure by RAW. I can see a DM not buying it though. Definitely make sure they are cool with it!

[Vhaidara]

Titan Bloodline from Unearthed Arcana lets you wield Gargantuan weapons 9possibly limited to the titan weapons, unsure) with no penalty. Then Diopsid increases it by 1 category, and you have Colossal weapons wielded by a medium character.

[Rijan_Sai]

Titan Bloodline from Unearthed Arcana lets you wield Gargantuan weapons 9possibly limited to the titan weapons, unsure) with no penalty. Then Diopsid increases it by 1 category, and you have Colossal weapons wielded by a medium character.

http://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg

First of all, if you are going to use the pedantic reading of RAW for this, then you are going to be stuck with a warhammer:

From the Titan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/titan.htm) entry:

Oversized Weapon (Ex)
A titan wields a great, two-handed warhammer (big enough for Gargantuan creatures) without penalty.


Second, it seems to me that that is rather ill defined; does it give the Titan the ability to weild a Gargantuan warhammer specifically, or is that the Titan's general weapon of choise?

Honestly, I would suggest treating the Titan Bloodline 12th level ability (Use Oversized Weapon [Ex]) like the [Epic] feat in Complete Warrior pg. 153 (Wield Oversized Weapon), and let the character use all weapons of one size catagory larger with no penalty (i.e. Medium wielding a Large One-handed in one hand, rather then two, with no attack penalty).

Of course, this is not "RAW", though it certainly should be RACSD. Because really, which makes more sense, a (for example) TB Kobold pulling out a medium greatsword, or a gargantuan warhammer? (If you go with 2, make sure to have it made out of alchemical silver, and name the character Maxwell...or I will fong you...I will...I...ec...PAIN! Lots of pain!)

[Uncle Pine]

Titan Bloodline from Unearthed Arcana lets you wield Gargantuan weapons 9possibly limited to the titan weapons, unsure) with no penalty. Then Diopsid increases it by 1 category, and you have Colossal weapons wielded by a medium character.

This definitely works. Although you'll be limited to warhammers and you'll have to eat some experience points to get some bloodline levels. But then again, experience is a river. :smallwink: