and I messed up magic missile

[lytokk]

in the last game I was running, my players went up to level 3, and the sorceress got the second hit on her magic missile. The problem is, I thought that +1 went up by caster level. I blame too many years since I actually read the description, and me not wanting to waste time looking up a second level spell. What this basically turned into was magic missile at third level did 1d4 +3 per each of the missiles, though I assumed the bonus stopped at +5, as it stopped for the number of missiles.

Is this something I should correct or just leave it as I described since its a minor damage increase and has frankly been the only thing she's been able to offer offensively to the party?

[Dalebert]

It's 1d4+1 for each missile no matter what CL. CL only increases the number of missiles, i.e. 1 missile for every odd level up to 5 missiles (maxes out at 9th). Also, it's a 1st level spell; not 2nd. Just explain to her that you misread the description and I'm sure she'll understand. If she's upset because it's different than expected, give her a free retraining to pick a different spell. That's how I'd handle it anyway.

[nedz]

You should correct it and point out that the Sorcerer's player is responsible for checking this sort of thing.

[Drachasor]

Sounds fine at that level. At higher levels it might become a bit problematic with metamagic (though there are ways to do more damage). At 9th level it would average 37.5 damage. So it would be pretty easy for a 9th level caster to use MM+5 to deal over 100 damage in a round. An Empowered version would deal 56-some damage easily enough. That's quite a lot for a 3rd level slot.

However, MM does have weak damage. Capping it at +3 per missile should be fine. That's just 5d4+18 (average 30.5), and empowered it is just about 45 damage. Still quite a lot. Though, Scorching Ray is 28 damage (though it also has to deal with fire damage). But direct damage is pretty awful.

Normally, MM does just 5+5d4, of course (17.5 damage) which is pretty pathetic. Still, a lot of this just emphasizes how bad direct damage is without a lot of work by the player.

If she's focusing on just direct damage, that is probably why she's having such a hard time contributing.

Another option is to allow infinite use of cantrips, and have damaging cantrips add in the casting stat modifier to damage. That might make her feel better.

[eggynack]

I would make the change, and then teach her the wonders of proper spell selection. Let her make her list of firsts something like silent image, grease, and maybe color spray. The specifics depend on party makeup to some extent, cause I could see picking something like enlarge person if there's a party member who likes enlargement. You could even tell her to keep magic missile, cause it's a perfectly fine spell as is, but make it not be her only offensive option. Also, she gets second level spells in a level, so there's a good chance of sorcerer based insanity in the game's future. Those spells are pretty great sometimes.

[Greenish]

If she's focusing on just direct damage, that is probably why she's having such a hard time contributing.If the only thing the sorcerer has for offense is Magic Missile, I don't think blasting focus is the problem. :smallamused:

Also, sorcerers have a fixed and limited list of spells known, so I agree with nedz, the player should know how the spells work.

[Drachasor]

If the only thing the sorcerer has for offense is Magic Missile, I don't think blasting focus is the problem. :smallamused:

Also, sorcerers have a fixed and limited list of spells known, so I agree with nedz, the player should know how the spells work.

It's not like there are many better options at 3rd level. I mean sure, MM is poor, but a lot of the other stuff is little better in terms of direct damage. All of it is worse than one attack by a Barbarian or many other classes.

If the player things direct damage is the way to be involved in combat, then that would explain a lot.

[lytokk]

Direct damage is just they way she has been involved in combat up to this point, most of the time. She's new to the game and the party is full of melee. I think she took sleep, but I could be wrong. She did use light once to blind a group of kobolds, was going to use I think color spray until the psychic warrior ran straight into the fray. Also acid arrow to melt the hinges on a door.

With her social skills and, admittedly odd skill choice, she's been pretty useful in non-combat encounters. She's learning the system and choices, though I did mention magic missile would be a worthwhile spell to at least pick up, since we did start at level 1 and she was going to need some option, I don't try to direct any spell choices, letting my players pick whats best for them.

I didn't think this messup on magic missile would be that big of a deal, barring metamagic feats, but I wasn't sure.

[Dalebert]

It always hits. It's got a good range. It can be spread between multiple targets, particularly nice with a metamagic like the one that gives negative levels. It's force damage so it affects incorporeal and not many things will have a resistance to it. There's no save to take half damage. It's a good spell in many circumstances though it may not excel in straight damage. How many other 1st level spells compare?

Tell her to look at sunstroke (http://dndtools.eu/spells/sandstorm--85/sunstroke--3168/) if you allow Sandstorm content. Non-lethal damage with no save plus a chance for fatigue or exhaustion if you spam it. Great for a wand too.

[eggynack]

She sounds like she's doing pretty much fine. Her spell choices aren't great, but they're not the worst either. Tell her about the actual rules, and let her swap out if she so chooses, because sticking someone with something they thought was better than it is isn't the best thing to do. How's she getting acid arrow though? That's a second level spell, which she should get at 4th level.

[lytokk]

acid splash, sorry, the cantrip. wasn't enough damage to actually melt the hinge, but I have a tendancy to rule of cool creativity.

and yes, allowing sandstorm now, since I got it and frostburn for christmas. I only had the core spell sheets, and thats what she's using to figure out and plan her spells, and I never made any more. Like I said, brand new player and I didn't want her overwhelmed with options.

[eggynack]

Tell her to look at sunstroke (http://dndtools.eu/spells/sandstorm--85/sunstroke--3168/) if you allow Sandstorm content. Non-lethal damage with no save plus a chance for fatigue or exhaustion if you spam it. Great for a wand too.
It seems decent, though it doesn't scale well. Probably wouldn't toss it on a sorcerer as a result, cause scaling is important for them. Non-lethal damage is problematic as well. Still, it seems fantastic at first level, because it's just a straight up no save just lose against a solid subset of low HP opponents. Probably better than produce flame at first, and maybe second level as a result, though produce flame likely pulls ahead after that point or so.


acid splash, sorry, the cantrip. wasn't enough damage to actually melt the hinge, but I have a tendancy to rule of cool creativity.

Fair enough then. In that case her list seems pretty decent, though I would ditch sleep. It just doesn't scale well enough for a sorcerer in my opinion. She should do well enough for herself, especially with color spray

[lytokk]

I really should write down my players spell lists at some point, may end up helping with things like this. I do remember looking at her list and thinking that it was a good mix of spells, damage types for direct damage and utility spells.

[Dalebert]

Fair enough then. In that case her list seems pretty decent, though I would ditch sleep. It just doesn't scale well enough for a sorcerer in my opinion. She should do well enough for herself, especially with color spray

I agree about sleep but if you're allowing the PHB II retraining, a sorcerer could switch out one spell a level as their free retrain on top of a few other opportunities they get as a class feature to switch our spells. Might be worth having for just a few levels.

Sunstroke is a great spell for a wand that you might want to spam. You're right that it probably isn't a great sorcerer spell. I found myself contemplating a magic crossbow for something to do when not casting and felt silly. A cheap 1st-lvl wand makes more sense. Non-lethal dmg is fine in most cases. Once an opponent is passed out, they're out of the fight and you just kill them after the battle. I wouldn't have it as my only wand, of course, because some things are immune.

[eggynack]

I agree about sleep but if you're allowing the PHB II retraining, a sorcerer could switch out one spell a level as their free retrain on top of a few other opportunities they get as a class feature to switch our spells. Might be worth having for just a few levels.

Sunstroke is a great spell for a wand that you might want to spam. You're right that it probably isn't a great sorcerer spell. I found myself contemplating a magic crossbow for something to do when not casting and felt silly. A cheap 1st-lvl wand makes more sense. Non-lethal dmg is fine in most cases. Once an opponent is passed out, they're out of the fight and you just kill them after the battle. I wouldn't have it as my only wand, of course, because some things are immune.
Sounds about right on both counts. You can probably do fine as long as you keep track of where you're trading out the things you're trading out. I'm mostly considering using sunstroke as a replacement damage spell for produce flame on first level druids, cause that seems neat. It's pretty unconditional damage, and you get a nifty debuff on the side. Neither fatigued nor exhausted is all that strong, but they're decent.

[Dalebert]

It's the most bang for the buck for a first level wand at first caster level. Kelgore's firebolt does 1-6 and ignores spell resistance but allows a reflex for half. A magic missiles does 2-5. Both of those scale up but that's no help for a cheap wand when the whole point is to keep the CL at minimum for cost.