Battle Jump / Pounce Shenanigans...

[GhengisConrad]

Okay, so, am I correct in assuming that I can get, like 2 full rounds out of battlejump?

Consider, that falling is a free action, so, if I cast a standard action spell or something, then fly over someone, stall/fall. On completion of the fall I get a pounce because falling = charging with battlejump.... then I get another full round attack?

or, I can standard action hit the guy in front of me, and then fly over to his buddy and fall on top of him too?

[D4rkh0rus]

Quote from battle jump's text:

"You can't jump from more than 30 feet above your opponent, nor can you effectively battle jump while under the influence of a fly or levitate spell or effect, as you have to hurl yourself down on your foe."

Also... a Charge is a Charge, unless you have ways of getting extra rounds/actions... you cant charge more than once per round.


which also leads me to a very interesting question...

a Barbarian 1/factotum 8... would it be able to charge, extra action move away, extra action charge (with boots of the battle charge, or w/e they're called from MiC that allow you to charge as a std action)

[GhengisConrad]

I have wings (average maneuverability), so I am not under influence of a fly spell or effect. I am actually flying.

"You can execute a charge by simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent"

So, Standard Action attack, move, fall (charge via Battle Jump), Pounce (full round attack when charging)

[OldTrees1]

Clarification:
Stalling (a specific form of falling) is a free action provided you meet the trigger (failed to meet the minimum forward speed or were tripped while flying). I do not know if falling is a free action.

[Lightlawbliss]

...
Also... a Charge is a Charge, unless you have ways of getting extra rounds/actions... you cant charge more than once per round.
...

where do you see a rule saying you can only charge once a round? I have never seen anything along those lines.

[Deophaun]

where do you see a rule saying you can only charge once a round? I have never seen anything along those lines.
First, re-read what he posted, as you're mis-characterizing it. Then, read the SRD:

Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action.

[D4rkh0rus]

Light, Tell me of a class or effect or something that allows you to charge twice per round, without giving you extra actions, rounds or changing the power of an action (say like turning move actions into standard action). As in something that splicitly says, you can charge twice per round.

A Charge is a Full-round Action, meaning that during 1 round, without using any of the aforementioned things, you should only be capable of charging once per round.
My wording may have been bad. but yes.
What I meant to say was that Unless the OP gets some means of having an extra Full round action, or some way to make Charge occupy less than a full round action and optimizing as fit.

He would not be able to fall-charge then charge again. Battle Jump specifies that you need to charge, Which again, is a full round action.


Deophaun has also said something similar.

[GhengisConrad]

Clarification:
Stalling (a specific form of falling) is a free action provided you meet the trigger (failed to meet the minimum forward speed or were tripped while flying). I do not know if falling is a free action.

So, what will it take for me to start falling whilst flying?

[GhengisConrad]

or some way to make Charge occupy less than a full round action and optimizing as fit.


srsly, reread battle jump. That's basically what it does



He would not be able to fall-charge then charge again. Battle Jump specifies that you need to charge, Which again, is a full round action.

Battle Jump specifies that you gain the benefits of a charge, "simply by falling"

[Darrin]

Okay, so, am I correct in assuming that I can get, like 2 full rounds out of battlejump?


It depends on how you're activating it.


Consider, that falling is a free action, so, if I cast a standard action spell or something, then fly over someone, stall/fall. On completion of the fall I get a pounce because falling = charging with battlejump.... then I get another full round attack?


No. If you started your turn with a standard action, managed to fall on your opponent then full attacked with battle jump, you only have a move action left. If you used this move action to somehow fall on top of your opponent again (such as the Shadow Stride maneuver), you could activate battle jump again.

However, you may need to resolve falling damage for yourself, falling object damage against your opponent, resolve the stacking issues for the square you land in, and figure out if you or your opponent are still standing. The Landing property (XPH or MIC) or catfall power help out quite a bit here. For stacking issues, you may want to treat it as an overrun or bull rush (ask your DM to clarify how he wants to resolve this). Without the Falling property, you're likely to end up prone in the same square as your opponent. Getting up may require a move action or trigger an AoO.



or, I can standard action hit the guy in front of me, and then fly over to his buddy and fall on top of him too?

So long as your DM allows you to deliberately fall while flying, yes.

Are you familiar with the 4500 lbs of stupid (community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1224546) build? You'll want to ask you DM about falling object damage. In the Core rules, there's no save for falling objects, but many DMs will houserule something or use the Ref save DC 15 from the Aerial Bombardment rules in Heroes of Battle. Make sure your DM knows what you're up to before you spring this on him.

[OldTrees1]

So, what will it take for me to start falling whilst flying?

As stated, you stall while flying if you fail to move your minimum forward speed or are tripped.

[Big Fau]

srsly, reread battle jump. That's basically what it does



Battle Jump specifies that you gain the benefits of a charge, "simply by falling"

One of the conditions for Charging is that you have to move at least 10ft. Battle Jump adds an alternative method of charging (specifically by allowing you to fall 5ft), but doesn't change the action type.

Edit:



Are you familiar with the 4500 lbs of stupid (community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1224546) build?

The concept of that build always made me laugh, until I started playing Dark Souls...

[GhengisConrad]

As stated, you stall while flying if you fail to move your minimum forward speed or are tripped.

Can I trip myself :p

anyway, as long as I just don't go my minimum forward speed (which is real easy if I started on the ground) I stall. Easy enough.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm

But wait! There is more!

On the wizards site (not sure if I can link there too... I'm pretty sure SRD is good... I don't wanna get in trouble. Just google it.) it is written

"Deliberately Freefalling: A flying creature can simply stop flying and allow itself to drop like a stone. " so... myeah... any time.

[GhengisConrad]

One of the conditions for Charging is that you have to move at least 10ft. Battle Jump adds an alternative method of charging (specifically by allowing you to fall 5ft), but doesn't change the action type.


That sounds reasonable... but I would still be alright, because in a freefall you move up to 300 feet before your next round... so if I fly 15 feat above the poor sucker, and then... fall. That fall is a charge, and I attack with pounce (while also doing double damage?)

[Big Fau]

That sounds reasonable... but I would still be alright, because in a freefall you move up to 300 feet before your next round... so if I fly 15 feat above the poor sucker, and then... fall. That fall is a charge, and I attack with pounce (while also doing double damage?)

If you have an ability that changes what type of action it takes to charge then yes, but Battle Jump has no wording along the lines of "You may charge as a _ action instead of as a full-round action". There is a precedent, as several effects change what action type a certain action is. Charging has several such effects, and Battle Jump isn't one of them.

[Amphetryon]

Light, Tell me of a class or effect or something that allows you to charge twice per round, without giving you extra actions, rounds or changing the power of an action (say like turning move actions into standard action). As in something that splicitly says, you can charge twice per round.

A Charge is a Full-round Action, meaning that during 1 round, without using any of the aforementioned things, you should only be capable of charging once per round.
My wording may have been bad. but yes.
What I meant to say was that Unless the OP gets some means of having an extra Full round action, or some way to make Charge occupy less than a full round action and optimizing as fit.

He would not be able to fall-charge then charge again. Battle Jump specifies that you need to charge, Which again, is a full round action.


Deophaun has also said something similar.
Telflammar Shadowlord allows multi-pouncing by the most common reading of RAW that I know. So does Crinti Shadow Marauder. So does the 3rd level Psychic Warrior Dimension Slide. Google "Multi Pouncing" for more details.

[GhengisConrad]

I am thuroughly pursuaded, by many thing, not least of which is:

"Normal
Anybody can try to jump down on an enemy, but it is not considered a charge"

It doesn't say "anybody can charge, but not while using a jump action".

Point is the jump is considered the charge

[Heliomance]

My favorite trick is to combo with Sudden Leap. Pump your jump check enough that you can get high enough to trigger Battle Jump,and you can charge asa swift action.

[GhengisConrad]

Why sudden leap, when you can fly!