Aerial Maneuvering: Tumble or Escape Artist?

[Deaxsa]

As title. If you're a flyer, with wings (and a wingspan larger than your normal space) (in this case, a Dire Hawk animal companion/mount), and you need to do something more acrobatic than normal... would it be a tumble or escape artist check? In particular, flying through buildings. This bird also has good maneuverability, from a feat. Would it maybe be rolled (no pun intended) as with the jump skill while mounted?

[Reinkai]

I would do a fly check with tumble or reflex to recover from any failures.

Is it navigating the building or just in one side and out the other? Depending on the speed, it may not be maneuverable enough to turn in there.

[Deaxsa]

I would do a fly check with tumble or reflex to recover from any failures.

Is it navigating the building or just in one side and out the other? Depending on the speed, it may not be maneuverable enough to turn in there.

I'm talking about maneuvering the building, not going in one window and out the other side.. for instance, how would a medium sized winged flyer handle a 5ft wide door? With escape artist (because this skill is about making yourself smaller), with tumble (which has stated uses of moving through rough terrain or squeezing through spaces occupied by enemies), or something else?

[Reinkai]

Turning sideways (I'd call it at least a DC 25 fly check), I'd imagine. I don't think that either of the two skills really fits. If you put a gun to my head, I'd say tumble because of the acrobatic nature of the manuver. But does the mount have either of those skills? If you're going to make the check untrained, it's basically a Dex check... Why not just use fly?

[Urpriest]

A medium-sized flyer can just fly through the door. The ability to stay within your combat space isn't some special maneuver, it's an assumed feature of the creature's flight maneuverability.

[avr]

Why not just use fly?
Probably because he's using D&D 3.5 rather than PF; it's still the default assumption on this board. The fly skill exists in one but not the other.

I'd use Tumble. Escape Artist is less about free movement and more about movement against touching obstacles IMO.

[Slipperychicken]

You could just take the Fly skill from PF and use that. It'd save you a lot of trouble.

[Reinkai]

Probably because he's using D&D 3.5 rather than PF; it's still the default assumption on this board. The fly skill exists in one but not the other.

I'd use Tumble. Escape Artist is less about free movement and more about movement against touching obstacles IMO.

Wow, my face is red... It's been so long since 3.5 that I forgot...

[Deaxsa]

A medium-sized flyer can just fly through the door. The ability to stay within your combat space isn't some special maneuver, it's an assumed feature of the creature's flight maneuverability.

so.. wingspan isn't a thing? (at least in 3.5)

[Urpriest]

so.. wingspan isn't a thing? (at least in 3.5)

It is, because it affects reach with wing attacks. Like tail length, though, it's assumed that a creature is capable enough that it only needs a battle-space's worth of room in combat. It may not be flying comfortably, but it can still fly to the limits of its maneuverability even if it can't reach its full wingspan.

[Slipperychicken]

so.. wingspan isn't a thing? (at least in 3.5)

I figured that wingspan simply wasn't worth bothering about, especially since you already need to work through the flight maneuverability rules.