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Macabros
2014-01-02, 07:30 PM
Ok so can people tell me why these combos are good?
Sorcerer//Paladin (Anti-Paladin)
Sage Sorcerer//Wizard
Sorcerer//Rogue
Bard//Paladin(or Sorcerer)

Or others like that. I get many are SAD but is that all?

Nettlekid
2014-01-02, 07:36 PM
More or less yeah, the SAD is a big draw. They also cover each other's bases well (Sorcerer and Paladin get two good saves, good HD, good BAB, etc) but the most important thing about gestalt is making good use of the action economy. Even an SAD Archivist//Wizard isn't going to be too amazing because they only have so many actions to cast. Whereas the Sorcerer//Paladin can buff with Sorcerer spells and then do battle as a Paladin. Sorcerer//Rogue is even better because they get battle-buffing abilities, battle prowess in the form of Sneak Attack, and out-of-combat talents too.

This is partly why Factotum is amazing as half of a gestalt, because not only do you get great skills and a decent HD if you're with a caster, but you get lots of extra standard actions to use your other stuff.

Macabros
2014-01-02, 09:58 PM
Is druid//rogue any good?

Nettlekid
2014-01-02, 10:21 PM
It would probably be okay, I expect? You'd basically just be a Druid, but happen to have good skill points, a good Reflex save, and useful Sneak Attack in your animal forms. So it wouldn't hurt at all, but it wouldn't be amazing synergy either.

aleucard
2014-01-02, 10:21 PM
Is druid//rogue any good?

If you make extensive use of Wildshape and your other close-range options, it'll help. Everyone enjoys letting their inner Monty Python out (pointy teeth!) Otherwise, only reason I can think of doing it is if you want skills, and Factotum is better for that anyway.

Red Fel
2014-01-02, 10:53 PM
The bottom line is what Nettlekid said.

When gestalting, you're looking at a number of factors, but in particular you'll focus on: Action economy: Many gestalt builds follow the "active" and "passive" side theory. Specifically, one side should have "active" abilities (such as a Wizard's spells or a Warblade's strikes), while the other should have "passive" abilities (like a Cleric's buffs or a Swordsage's counters). Since you can only take so many actions in a round, it helps to gestalt two classes that won't trip over each other's abilities. Shoring up weaknesses: Each class has its own BAB and saves. According to gestalt rules, you take the best at each level. That means if you have one class with full BAB and great Fort saves, it gestalts very nicely with a class that has great Will and Ref saves, since the gestalt will get the best of each. SAD: SAD is a focus for any optimized build, not just gestalt; bringing in gestalt simply increases the need to focus on it. Gestalting two classes that share key ability scores dramatically simplifies the build.
So, on the points you raised, the Sorc//Pal shares Cha as a key skill, and gets the Paladin's BAB and Fort and the Sorc's Will save, along with both spell progressions. Not bad, but we could do better. Sorc//Rogue is actually pretty poor, since the two classes lack a common ability focus, you don't get a full BAB from the pairing, and save-wise you only get Reflex and Will. Bard//Pally gets full BAB and great saves all around, as well as a common Cha focus, but you lose out on combat usage of some Bardic Music abilities (since they require a standard action to maintain concentration). Bard//Sorc has some unfortunate overlap, as both are spontaneous casters and both have the good Will save, meaning that you're either acting as a Bard or as a Sorc at any moment, rarely as both.

Druid//Rogue gets the good saves, and a Rogue's SA is basically just icing on the Druid's combat abilities, but that's about it - you've just turned your Druid into a Druid with SA, which isn't all that impressive for one of the most powerful classes in the game.

Honestly, the combos you've suggested don't strike me as ideal. Where did you hear they were?

Chronos
2014-01-02, 10:58 PM
Monk is usually regarded as the best pairing with druid, at least in core. You get Wis to AC, which helps a lot, both since your Wis is high and you have a hard time with armor. You can also get Improved Grapple as a bonus feat, and most wild shapes have grapple-related attacks.

Moving out of core, you could also get Wis to AC through ninja or swordsage. Either will increase your skill points (though not as much as a rogue), and ninja would give you Sudden Strike and trapfinding, while swordsage would give you maneuvers, most of which are usable in wildshape. If you really want the full 8 skill points, scout might be better than rogue, given how many wildshapes have Pounce (which works well with Skirmish).

Macabros
2014-01-03, 12:27 AM
What are the best combos with sorcerer and druid for average op game. PF core and base classes.